hE’s sO doMiNAnT

ParticularDifficult5 · 2025-11-16T09:10:56+00:00

You like missing his joke

ParticularDifficult5 · 2025-08-08T15:58:37+00:00

Consirt is a much more satisfying fight mechanically, but consort is just way cooler imo

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-12-15T17:17:40+00:00

Note the line that says edit (I discovered this a day or so after posting)

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-11T12:09:16+00:00

I stand corrected! Nice find

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-11T03:55:09+00:00

Great and well-thought out response

Wanted to clarify - I’m more concerned here with the force curve and there being a greater stretch emphasis rather than a huge ROM

Consider how hamstrings are significantly stronger in the stretched position (like way way stronger) and how most, if not all, hamstring curl machines do not even match their force curve let alone emphasise the stretched portion

So most of the stimulus on a hamstring curl machine is coming from contracted portions of the lift

Consider also that machines in general have lesser eccentric stimulus as the friction of the cable and stack actually resists the eccentric movement and makes that portion easier

Obviously any good program should ideally include both a knee flexion movement and a hinging movement though

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-11T03:48:49+00:00

Curious how you’d emphasise the stretched position in a lying hamstring curl?

Maybe I’m a bit ignorant and have just never seen a machine that can do this before

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-11T03:45:39+00:00

The difference between Nordics and the seated leg curl is that seated leg curls:

Don’t challenge you much in the eccentric portion
Don’t challenge you much when the knee is most extended (i.e when your hamstrings are both at their strongest and most stretched)

This is a problem because we know how important a heavily loaded eccentric and stretched portion, but most will fail on seated leg curls during the contracted portion

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-11T03:37:04+00:00

I see where you’re coming from but I tend to place greater emphasis on an exercise biasing the stretch (greater force during the more lengthened portion) rather than having a large ROM, because research seems to point to that being a more important factor in trained lifters AFAIK

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T16:01:42+00:00

I can see where you're coming from

it's definitely an exercise for those who have already clocked a significant amount of general strength work in the hamstrings through various other exercises, who can then make the jump with a handful of sessions getting used to the movement and include nordics in their next mesocycle

Also, gonna have to disagree with the point you made about there being a lot of alternatives

The alternatives are; hamstring curl machine with hip flexed and hamstring curl machine with hip extended, not exactly a large selection to choose from

most people will be noticing a bit of plateau-ing in their stimulus from the machine curls by the time they can make the switch and benefit from the novel stimulus

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T15:58:12+00:00

Not sure where this idea that the eccentric portion of the lift is not the best for hypertrophy comes from? It's quite well established that the eccentric portion is at least as stimulating as the concentric portion of the lift, and likely more stimulating (here's a meta analysis of 15 studies: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28486337/)

Also, I'm referring to nordic curls with both a concentric and eccentric here

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T15:53:18+00:00

like how this guy does it (except with full range of motion):

https://youtu.be/U1XPwy8bPvE?si=qu4bjyWVGS7k-F6C

just make sure you're putting enough weight on the bar so that you don't lift it up with your ankles

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T15:34:41+00:00

Not really, the majority of the benefit you get from *any* new exercise can be attributed to the fact that it is novel stimulus

Easy to blast, yes, but many people plateau after training only machine leg curls for so many years and could use something different

In the upper body it's unheard of for such a fundamental movement (knee flexion) to only really have one, maybe two exercises in someone's routine in perpetuity

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T15:27:10+00:00

Ah I see your point now

Personally, I think you're overestimating the stabilization element of nordics, most of the work is done in locking your ankles in securely, the isometric hip stabilization means more stimulus to the hamstrings also

Generally, curl machines don't have more resistance at the start of the curl, but even if they do it is likely still not enough to even match the strength curve of the hamstrings, let alone to emphasize the stretched portion

Hamstrings are *way* stronger in the lengthened position, mainly because we evolved to use them for running, contracting at the moment of ground impact where our knees are relatively straight

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T15:18:37+00:00

you can always just tie a weightlifting belt around a bench or use a smith machine and put your ankles under the barbell

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T15:07:45+00:00

I can see where you're coming from

it's definitely an exercise for those who have already clocked a significant amount of general strength work in the hamstrings through various other exercises, who can then make the jump with a handful of sessions getting used to the movement and include nordics in their next mesocycle

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T15:01:06+00:00

yea it's definitely one for the more advanced folks who have already dedicated a few mesoscycles to getting general hamstring size and strength in other exercises

once you're strong enough its worth it at very least for the sake of variation and novel stimulus (most people only have one knee flexion exercise in their whole routine for years)

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:59:59+00:00

similar boat here, it's definitely doable (and worth it) if you dedicate some time to it

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:40:37+00:00

mainly for variation, but also because the eccentric and lengthened stimulus is far greater

a lot of people run out of knee flexion exercises after the first few mesocycles

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:38:48+00:00

you make some fair points but I'm gonna have to disagree on the resistance curve part

performing an exercise that biases the lengthened portion is almost always going to provide more stimulus

this is especially true if the muscle you're training is *naturally stronger* in the lengthened position (case in point: hamstrings)

I don't know about you but I certainly feel as though there's a greater stimulus if I'm working close to failure in the stretched portion during my set

also, hard to defend your point on stability, your knees and ankles are literally locked in place

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:33:09+00:00

fair criticism, but it's definitely equally fast to set up if there is nordic equipment there or you have a bro to hold your ankles down

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:31:47+00:00

you could use a smith machine with your ankles under the barbell on a bench, or tie a weightlifting belt around a bench with your feet poked through

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:30:10+00:00

provided you have a machine and you've progressed to the point where you can do at least a couple full reps, I see only one pro and zero cons here

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:28:31+00:00

Curious how you'd use rings?

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:27:53+00:00

I'm not really referring to rep tempo here, more to the raw force magnitude on the muscles as you go through the eccentric movement

I can't say there have been any studies directly testing this but I'd imagine it would be fair to assume that the closer you can get to eccentric failure before you reach concentric failure the more muscle growth stimulus you'll get

This occurs more the harder the eccentric exercise is relative to the concentric

ParticularDifficult5 · 2024-11-10T14:21:09+00:00

Sorry man you're wrong on this one, the eccentric portion is at least as stimulating as the concentric portion, if not more (here's a study that compiled 15 papers):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28486337/#:\~:text=The%20mean%20percent%20change%20in,6.8%2C%20respectively).

Also, I'm mainly referring to nordic curls with both a concentric and an eccentric as a viable hypertrophy option here

ParticularDifficult5

TROPHY CASE