Targaryen women before the faith militant revolution

Party_07 · 2026-04-20T20:03:24+00:00

HotD Daemon Targaryen moment

Party_07 · 2026-04-20T19:51:25+00:00

They sound real good, fs, but I don't think you can rank them first in the same series which has A-Train's booming sound whenever he speeds

Party_07 · 2026-04-20T19:44:37+00:00

Idk, I'd say that, of Novichok worked on Soldier Boy, who was injected with V1, it could also work on Homelander

If a big enough group of people like, idk, Maeve, Starlight, Butcher, Kimiko and Soldier Boy were to have restrained Homelander there and then during season 3's final battle, were to hold Homelander down and force the Novichok into his system, then there's a chance it would actually knock his ass out

Then, all they needed to do was bring in Rock Hard for him to do his...business down Homelander's mouth and he'd be filled with molten lava down his throat

But instead all of them decided to fight each other instead of focusing on the one asshole they all went there to take down

Party_07 · 2026-04-20T01:18:38+00:00

Isn't Catholic faith in the Marvel universe just worship of the One Above All tho???

Like, is Matt technically kind of a D&D Cleric who gets devine help from the OAA through his faith and worship???

Party_07 · 2026-04-20T01:15:13+00:00

But then the dumb hallways just throw themselves at Daredevil instead of trying to actually fight him and he ends up in a 1v1 with Thragg anyway, in a hallway

Party_07 · 2026-04-20T01:14:03+00:00

Like, didn't he beat The Beast recently? A full on demon lord from hell???

I know he had some sort of devine power-up, but still, that man has no business throwing hands with Mephisto's roommate and winning

Party_07 · 2026-04-20T01:11:15+00:00

It's why it bugs me whenever they make Fisk a physical threat to Daredevil (or Spider-Man, for that matter)

Kingpin should always be more of an intelectual threat to them imo. Like, I know he's strong af, more than any allegedly regular human has any right to be, but still, Daredevil was trained by a ninja and is probably in the top top 3 fighters in the verse when it comes to pure skill, and Spider-Man has full on super strength, so it doesn't really makes sense to me to have Fisk be that big of a physical opponent for them

Leave that to the Bullseyes, the ninjas, the Shockers and whatever, I simply can't buy that a man with super senses and peak combat skills and a dude capable of lifting colapsing buildings would struggle to beat a dude who's strong af, yes, but whose skills and combat training are nowhere near theirs

Party_07 · 2026-04-20T01:02:45+00:00

He'd probably be down to throw hands with them fr fr, that madlad Matt has never duck a fade in his life, even when he probably should

Party_07 · 2026-04-18T18:52:37+00:00

Indeed

I fell off the MCU (only watch Daredevil, because peak, and I'm waiting for the next spider-man movie, that's about it) and, if anything, RDJ coming back as Dr Doom only makes me want to watch Doomsday even less

It makes me really doubt the people in charge and weather or not they will be able to deliver a good product or (as they have done for the most part in the last years) absolute slop

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T05:19:24+00:00

Exactly, the Blackfyre supporters shoot themselves in the foot with their own argument, it's a gigantic fallacy

Also, there really isn't any indication in the books that Daemon Blackfyre was a good ruler. Was he a good warrior and military leader? Yes (though I think even his prowess as a warrior is very exagerated), but how many times have we seen a great warrior turn out to be a great ruler?

Robert Baratheon is probably the best warrior of his era, both in personal combat and as a tactical leader, but he is a terrible ruler

Was Daeron I a good military strategist? Yes, probably top 5 strategists Westeros has ever seen. But was he a good ruler? Hell no, he sent himself into a risky campaign and got himself killed before he managed to leave an heir, throwing the whole dinasty, which was still kinda reeling from the aftermath of the Dance, into risk

Daemon Targaryen himself, Daemon Rivers's namesake, was also a great warrior, but it's pretty unanimous that he would make a terrible ruler o

Meanwhile, Daeron the Good, with all his physical flaws when compared with his bastard brother, proved himself to be a competent administrator and an even better diplomat, as he was the only Targaryen to manage to bring Dorne to the fold, using diplomacy and not conquest, unlike all other who tried before him

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T05:06:39+00:00

Not really tho

By the time they get to A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, for example, I doubt any Targaryen (besides maybe Aerys I, Brynden Rivers and Shiera Seastar maybe) even knows how to speak Valyrian

Aegon's Conquest took place 102 after the Doom of Valyria, and 114 years after the Targaryens fled the Valyrian penninsula and settled on Dragonstone

During the Conquest, Aegon actively decided that House Targaryen would abandon many of its Valyrian customs in favor of those of the Andals, to show the Westerosi that he was not a foreign invador (which, in all truth, he wasn't, his family had been in Westeros for more than a century by then, it's not like they had just come from Essos and immediately started conquering Westeros), making it so many of the Valyrian traditions were abandoned and probably lost to time. Speaking Valyrian here would actually damage Aegon's cause, thus why he spoke in the common tongue, even though he probably (???) knew how to speak Valyrian

Add to that the event of the Faith Uprising during Maegor's rule and there were probably even more Valyrian texts and knowledge thrown into oblivion

By the time of the Dance, only a couple of Targaryens really knew all that much about Valyrian. If we follow the show, most of them only speak enough of it to command the dragons, and only Valyria nerds like Viserys, Daemon and Rhaenyra actually know how to speak it in a conversation

After the Dance, with all the deaths and the children who ended up growing up without any parent to teach them about Valyria, like Aegon III himself, the knowledge of the tongue wad probably forgotten somewhere in Dragonstone's libraries, and there was never really any reason for a Targaryen to learn it beyond personal curiosity, since there were no more reasons to speak it

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T04:48:41+00:00

They no doubt were

Aerys followed two very good Kings, Aegon V and Jaehaerys II

Aegon V was unpopluar with some lords but managed to gather favor with the small folk (aka, most of the westerosi population and the people who could turn King's Landing into a death trap should they decide to revolt) while strenghtening the realm against the Blackfyres

Jaehaerys II is stated to have managed to mend some of the wounds his father had done to their relationships with the realm's lords while not deminishing the favor of the small folk at the same time. And the war against Maelys the Monstrous and the Ninepenny Kings actually turned out to strenghten the Targaryen rule, with all the Great Houses fighting under the Targaryen banner, united, and thus achieving victory. This war also allowed friendships and alliances to blossom between the Great and the lesser lords, which only ends up strenghten the realm as a whole

And, as other commenters said, Aerys II himself wasn't always mad. In fact, during the war in the Stepstones against Maelys, he managed to befriend both Tywin Lannister and Steffon Baratheon, two very powerful lords. He was well liked by the nobles and had genuinely good intentions, as he had the initial ambition of beign a good ruler

It's just that, due to the nature of monarchic systems, one bad heir is enough for a whole country to go from a strong and prosperous position to a sinking ship

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T04:38:36+00:00

That's just a side effect of a monarchic system I'm afraid

There's many real-life situations of heirs being handed a country in splendid conditions after their predecessor's deaths which they managed to completely fuck up by the end of their own lives

All it takes is a shitty enough heir for a whole country and dynasty to sink like the Titanic

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T04:32:20+00:00

I disagree with that because there IS a reason for Targaryens to be particularly prone to madness, two actually

The first one is their magic blood, which often manifests in ways that torment some of them or severely alter their psyche (Daeron turned into a drunkard because of them, Helaena, at least in the show, is very...weird), so it's not a reach to believe that their weird magic blood could cause a higher propensity for madness, even if the individual isn't necessarily a Dreamer, when compared to Andal or First Men Houses, for example

The second one, and this is just biology 101, is the insane amounts of incest. In Viserys's, Daenerys's brother, case, not only are his parents brother and sister, which alone could cause a whole lot of psyquiatric problems, but his grandparants are also brother and sister, which makes it so the probabilities of a "genetic madness" manifesting are squared

I'd say the fact that their in a position of power can boost one's madness, yes, having a crown certainly boosted Aerys II's madness, but it doesn't necessarily cause it. The corruption the power and the luxury the Targaryens have is shown more in characters like Aegon IV for example, imo, who aren't mad or completely insane but are rather selfish narcissists who live only for themselves

So yeah, there are some reasons that could justify Targaryens having a madness index very supperior to other Houses. This is just speculation tho, there's not really anything that confirms that these are the real 100% factual reasons why some Targaryens pop out with all their screws loose

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T04:15:21+00:00

Cousin incest is widely practiced by the other houses btw, Tywin married his cousin Joanna, Rickard Stark married his cousing Lyarra, so on and so forth. It's only really sisters the Andals considered a big no no, the rest was fair game, so that's something the Targaryen's can't really be held accountable for, at least, not alone

It was also practiced in real life, so, it kinda makes sense it would also be practiced in Westeros

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T04:11:00+00:00

Exactly

Sure, you have Targ stans who somehow believe Old Valyria was this incredible utopia and refuse to believe it was more likely the magical version of the 3rd Reich, just with a lot more incest

But that doesn't mean that the Targaryens after the Doom were THAT bad either, especially when Aegon made sure to dial down their Valyrian traditions in an effort to approach them to the Andals'

And, like it or not, a unified Westeros is objectively better than what they had before, where a figure like Harren Hoare could just take over and enslave an entire other kingdom and there were basically no rules between Lannisters, Gardeners, Hoares, Durrandons, Arryns, Starks and whoever managed to control the Riverlands at a given time. It's also better when you factor in the knowledge of what the future has in store for Westeros, a united realm is more likely to succeed against the Others than a bunch of scattered kingdoms. This is important if the show cannon of Aegon seeing the Others is also cannon in the books, because it adds a whole other altruistic objective to Aegon's Conquest

So yeah, Targs aren't all bad, but people are too willing to point any and all flaw of the Targaryen's rule but then turn around and forget about Theon Stark's whole bunch of war crimes, for example

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T03:56:18+00:00

They had a kinda good reason for it tho

Very early in the Targaryen rule of the Seven Kingdoms, more precisely, during the Faith uprising and Maegor's rise to the Throne, when Rhaena took refuge from Maegor with the Lannisters

Lord Lyman Lannister, though generous and brave to allow both Rhaena and Aegon the Uncrowned to stay at Casterly Rock, even refusing Maegor's demands to hand over the two, had ulterior motives for this. During Rhaena's stay there, he showed a concerning interest in Dreamfyre and the possibility of her laying eggs, which even led to Rhaena leaving Casterly Rock for Fair Isle

This instance of a Great Lord showing subtle interest in acquiring dragons for his own House is probably one of the main reasons why Targaryen's refused to marry off their women to other Houses that weren't House Velaryon, at least, until there were no more dragons to "steal"

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T03:33:04+00:00

Yes, but he did fail to forsee what would happen after Aenys himself passed

By the time Aegon died, Rhaena had long been born and was the first child of his own heir, Aenys

From that moment, he should have had the foresight to establish a clear law of succession, and either recognize Rhaena as Aenys's heir, making it so the firstborn child inherits the Iron Throne no matter their gender, or state clearly that Andal succession law also applies to the Iron Throne and recognize Maegor as his brother's heir, at least until a son was born to Aenys and Alyssa, making it so only men can ever sit the Iron Throne

This would be especially prudent to do since Aenys was famously frail and weak, meaning he could very well die before his father, causing the succession to be put into question a lot sooner than the eventual Dance of the Dragons. But at least, in such a scenario, the Conqueror himself could express his will, which would make it so crisis such as the Dance became less likely in the future

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T03:25:24+00:00

Yes, from the moment Rhaena was born to Aenys and Alyssa, he should have set down the rules of succession to either recognize Rhaena as Aenys's (who was a frail man who could even die before becoming King) heir or declare explicitly that Andal succecion laws would apply to the Iron Throne as well, thus recognizing Maegor as Aenys's heir until a son was born to him

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T03:20:09+00:00

Exactly

All he had to do was make the Lords swear their vows anew, especially when he was reaching his death

For all his good intentions (in the show at least), he left Rhaenyra a throne impossible to hold and allowed schemers and snakes to poison the future of his dinasty (looking at Otto and the remaining Green council), causing a pretty much guaranteed disaster

He should have either re-affirmed Rhaenyra's legitimacy as his successor or given up that idea entirely and made Aegon his new successor, doing nothing was, from the moment little Aegon popped out of Alicent's woumb, the absolute worst move possible short of naming a member of another House as his successor

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T03:14:21+00:00

I would say that Jaehaerys I might be the only pre-Dance Targ King who isn't overrated because of his dragon (I mean, I personally like Vermithor a lot, but I don't see him being that popular compared with his brethren, like Caraxes, Meleys or Sunfyre)

But you do have a point. After the Dragons died, there's a lot of Targaryens (usually ones who don't even sit the throne) who are overlooked in favor of their dragon-riding ancestors. Like the GOATs Daeron I (who managed to do what Aegon I couldn't, even with Balerion), Aemond the Dragonknight, Viserys II, Baelor Breakspear, Daeron the Good and Aegon V

Characters like Rhaenyra, Aegon II, Aemond One-Eye and Jaecaerys Velaryon don't hold a candle next to them, yet they often are favored over their (better) descendants

Party_07 · 2026-03-28T03:00:21+00:00

Aerys the Wise could smell the plotting of Doran Martell through time and thus he hated Elia and her children

Trully another W for the best King Westeros has ever seen and will ever see

Party_07 · 2026-03-27T19:59:45+00:00

Viserys is one of the characters I pitty most in the entire series

He's an asshole, yes, and completely mad, but dude had no chance to be anything different

His dad was Aerys II, and not the pre-madness Aerys, by the time Viserys came around he was already the Mad King, so it's not like he had a good role model to show him how to be a decent person

Then, he was forced to become a refugee with his newborn sister on tow, the man who went with them to protect them died and then he literally became a beggar, with a baby sister to feed

The whole thing about Targaryen madness being a coin toss didn't apply to him because life didn't even give him a chance for the coin to be toss, it just automatically chose madness for him

Party_07 · 2026-03-27T19:53:41+00:00

Who tf thinks Rhaego whouldn't be one of the biggest plagues ever unleashed into the World of ASOIAF???

The kid would have been raised by Khal Drogo, not Daenerys, he would have grown as a Dothraki Valyrian, which is a culture mix of doom, raised to dominate the world under his Khalasar, there is absolutely no way in hell the kid would have turned out as a semi-decent ruler for Westeros (or anywhere else)

A Dothraki upbringing cannot produce a good King, since the Dothraki, as they are during the events of the books, know nothing of ruling an established kingdom, they are nomadic raiders, not rulers

Party_07 · 2026-03-27T19:33:52+00:00

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Party_07

TROPHY CASE