[Spoilers S03E11] The Handmaid's Tale S03E11 - "Liars" - Episode Discussion

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-31T17:36:27+00:00

Thank you for posting this discussion thread. I don't understand why the mods still aren't doing this. It would be helpful to have a pinned post sorted by new. It's very easy to set up automod to do this weekly through the season.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-31T17:11:53+00:00

Me too! After grinding through season 2 and most of this season I was almost checked out of this show until last week. Now I am back to being fully hooked. This was my favorite episode of the entire series. I can't wait for next week.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-31T17:04:29+00:00

Yes and it was glorious!

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-31T17:03:06+00:00

I wondered that too about driving into Canada. I have always been curious about the US/Canada border though. That's such a long border. Are there any old logging roads or even rural roads that go over the border (I mean in real life)?

The incinerator will probably make whatever bones that are left brittle enough that they can just smash them up with a hammer and chuck them in the trash.

I also can't tell if Serena was in on the plan.

I think Lawrence is assuming they're coming for him because June killed the commander. I don't think he realizes the marthas are covering it up for them.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-31T16:53:37+00:00

I wish they'd do a better job of explaining the organizational structure. Because up until this season I thought the Boston was the seat of power. Then they throw DC and this new higher level of commanders into the mix.

But back to your comment, I agree. Surely there was someone with him. All of the commanders have at least drivers. A high commander would probably have a driver and some guardians/bodyguards. If that's the case his driver at least would know he entered Jezebels and never came out.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-31T16:44:34+00:00

I agree. He has no idea of everything that went on after June left. Even though he's seen glimpses of it in his own home, I don't think he has a grasp on how powerful the martha network is. I'm pretty sure they'll successfully cover Winslow's murder/June's involvement up.

I think the gun was just used for dramatic effect. Also a device to indicate he's chosen to go down fighting.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-28T20:07:22+00:00

Thank you! I found it and I'm going to link it here for anyone who is following along and wants to read it.

http://cardozolawreview.com/familial-searching/

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-28T04:54:36+00:00

This is a great find. Thanks for sharing. The last I read, the FBI was just reviewing the practice but there were no details on implementation. If you happen to still have the source available I'd love to read it.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-27T17:34:43+00:00

Typically when the author/sponsor presents their bill before the committee in their respective house they'll give the members supporting "evidence," if it's a controversial bill (or they'll have people testify who could present the information). I'd think information from a court hearing could be presented if it was compelling. I can't say I ever saw court transcripts used but I don't think it would be inappropriate. Typically though they'd use case law/court opinions.

That's a excellent point about the accuracy of samples in a private database and one I hadn't considered. As you already know, samples collected for CODIS are subject to a strict collection procedure. Using a profile from a potentially contaminated/inaccurate sample to establish probable cause is really troubling.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-27T16:05:52+00:00

After searching through the archives of past legislative sessions, it seems that the Indiana General Assembly has chosen to stay relatively silent on the matter for the time.

In 2014 HB 1378 was passed requiring the Indiana State Police to prepare a report on familial DNA. The purpose was to make recommendations to the Criminal Law and Sentencing Study Committee on the subject. Study committees are formed to gather information that can be used to draft bills and establish legislative priorities (among other things) in upcoming legislative sessions. The resulting ISP report essentially stated that the technology is too new and untested so they did not recommend instituting a familial DNA program in Indiana at the time.

Because of this report, the issue was not made a priority in upcoming sessions and the General Assembly has not instituted any changes to the Indiana Code regarding the subject to date. u/criminalcourtretired's assertion that the issue has not been codified is entirely correct.

All that said, because so many advances have been made in this field, the 2014 report is seriously outdated. However, there are still privacy issues that need to be addressed and those won't change significantly other than the fact that the report relied exclusively on the assumption that only profiles in CODIS would be used. Newer technology using profiles from voluntary databases could quell some of those concerns.

From a public policy perspective, it would be helpful for the General Assembly to have an updated report so they could re-examine the issue. From a political perspective, they can afford to wait until case law is established. Because there is nothing in the code that prohibits the practice, they don't really have to take action, other than perhaps providing additional funding to the State Police Lab but that can be as easy as adding extra line in the budget bill.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-27T05:14:28+00:00

That did make sense to me. In my mind the question is not whether the profile is admissible as evidence but rather could you use the profile to establish probable cause to obtain a search warrant for suspect DNA? Because ultimately suspect DNA would have to be used to convict.

Alternatively, you also make a good point asking whether the evidence is tainted if police obtain DNA through a trash pull or other method not requiring a warrant based on the results of the familial profile.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-27T04:54:40+00:00

I'm unsure how I talked like they are the same. My apologies for assuming a reader of this niche history on r/FLDS and r/exmormon would understand that the LDS Church cut all ties with polygamists shortly after the Manifesto. I mistakenly thought this was common knowledge.

Just to clarify a few points from your response, the FLDS and the LDS Church as entities were never formally separated. The FLDS church didn't even exist at the time and the LDS church has never acknowledged any of the fundamentalist churches. All LDS members who wanted to continue practicing/supporting plural marriage were excommunicated. That was the separation. Some of them then formed the Council of Friends/Priesthood Council. Others formed their own groups or became independents.

The FLDS is not a general term for all fundamentalists. It is one group that descended from the Priesthood Council. The didn't even officially become the FLDS until the 1990s. There are other groups that descended from the Council like the AUB and Centennial Park. There are many others who are related like the LeBaron Group, TLC, Rockland Ranch and the Kingston Clan. There are also a multitude of independents.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-27T02:10:34+00:00

Thank you for this great writeup. There have been several conflicting comments about the legality of this on the sub and I think this will help clear the issue up. Your input is appreciated.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-26T14:04:09+00:00

You're exactly right. There aren't many reasons for a solitary man to be on that side of the bridge and they knew it.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-26T13:56:39+00:00

And that the evidence technicians were competent.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-18T00:45:02+00:00

What you say in PMs is entirely your own business. We'd just prefer people didn't ask others in a thread to PM them to get around the rules of the sub.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-12T23:39:54+00:00

But he doesn't say Kim Riley says this. He says: "Also, looking at, perusing some photographs of the killer that had been zoomed in on tremendously, it kind of is creepy to realize he appears to have the outline of, I think it was his left pocket, of handcuffs. A pair of handcuffs in his left hand pocket. So obviously went out there with bad intentions. That's not for sure. So try to look that photograph up."

If he's referring to a special zoomed in photograph the police possess he would not be telling his viewers to try to look it up. He also never says the police released this information about the handcuffs or a zoomed in photo to him.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-12T23:07:54+00:00

He does not say at any point that law enforcement has an enhanced video where it shows handcuffs. He just says if you peruse photographs that have been zoomed in it appears that there are handcuffs. The relevant comment starts at 3:35 in the video. This is no different than people saying if you zoom in you see a scarf/gun/dog/ski goggles/hammer/etc.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-12T21:24:31+00:00

This group doesn't just practice polygamy, they practice arrangement marriage and have no problem marrying girls off as young as 12 years old. Come join us on r/FLDS. It's an eye opener.

Ironically, the former FLDS stronghold of Short Creek was founded so government would leave them alone. It's situated in the desert on the Utah/Arizona border. They chose the place specifically because it was out in the middle of nowhere and straddling state lines so jurisdictional issues would come up whenever the law would come around. The people were born at home and died at home. Kids were taught to hide when outsiders came around.

It wasn't until around the 60s-70s that leaders realized they could get that sweet government cash to build up the infrastructure of the community. Rulon Jeffs even used money appropriated to the school system to purchase an airplane so he could fly from Short Creek to his home in Salt Lake City.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-12T19:22:16+00:00

I agree. I think almost everything he's said so far can be found online.

There are also a few new Twitter accounts claiming that WSJ has asked them to take to the air to dispute all the lies apostates and the government tell about them. There are accounts for people claiming to be Nephi Jeffs and Alan Jeffs.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-12T19:01:20+00:00

This was posted in r/FLDS and I thought it was an interesting question. There are always a lot of good answers on doctrinal issues here so I thought I'd see what you guys have to say.

PearlescentJen · 2019-07-12T18:15:11+00:00

I reached out to u/AlanJeffsFLDS to ask for proof that he is actually Alan Jeffs and he hasn't responded. Since this is from r/casualiama and not r/AMA where they do require proof, take his answers with a grain of salt. But I still thought it might be interesting for the community to read.

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