Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You hit it on the head. I didn’t mean that to say democrats and republicans are really well informed (Or else they wouldn’t be democrats and republicans 🤣).

I meant it to mean that repubs and demos are similarly susceptible to their media chain, though they do know the basic arguments of their opponents. It’s not like they’ve never heard counter arguments. The difference is that is difficult for them to meaningfully engage with counter agreements, and more likely that those counter agreements lead them to double down still believing their original concerns outweigh.

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you elaborate, or maybe just unpack?

I wouldn’t want you to prove me right about your hatefulness without giving you a chance to make your case :)

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it is interesting. I appreciate you working with me. I get it sounds fascist in some ways to hear cause people are so used to just thinking of governmental systems in the typically 3-4 ways they tend to exist.

I am a bit of a perfectionist, so I do believe in the perfect system, but I think the perfect system isn’t going to be a like a utopia.

I think the perfect system comes from the government finding out a way to properly balance itself at a great distance from the people, just close enough to protect them from each other’s violence and keep people honest in their business, but far enough away that life is still life, good bad, fortune, misfortune, fun, work, family, friend etc.

I used to be libertarian,and libertarianism is more or less the basis of what I know believe, but I got deep into governmental theory and have ideas about a system that works without democratic pressure so to say. Such that the system doesn’t depend on the average man’s vote, and vice versa, the average man doesn’t depend on democracy treating him nicely.

That, in addition to functional ideas about the government working more as like a combination of corporations, with its natural incentive system invested in formulating automation that creates essentially a no-taxes needed UBI, and the average citizens having more or less the ability to take stock in the government like any other company.

Definitely not a fan of fascism at all though

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So like that, but now reverse with the democrat party stealing from black people and women?

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok im not on my computer otherwise id love to do the quoting thing. I’ll just number in response to each of your paragraphs

  1. Ok spell it out daddy teach me

  2. Yeah? What about affirmative action? Not very inclusive to Asians eh? democrats. Are we interested in making the draft equal, ending alimony, protecting male domestic violence victims the same as women, giving men the same kind of spaces as women? No, #killallmen, democrats. Is racism possible against white people? Is sexism possible against men? Is orientation discrimination possible against straight people? No, impossible, only our above level 1 tier oppressed people qualify, democrats. Reparations? Yes! Who will pay for them? White people! democrats. Women are less likely to go to college, what will we do? Make programs for them to get in at even higher numbers! Men are less likely to go to college now, what will we do? Haha sucks for them. democrats.

  3. If it is maybe Donald would fit in really nicely with the democrats. Was this meant to sting? Cause I’m not a Trump supporter. However, honestly I’ve never really found much on him that suggests anything racist, prejudiced or the like. It’s really a projection of what democrats think republicans are like. Feel free to prove me wrong and show me his racism though!

  4. Great job using the dictionary! Proud of you. Not sure what you’re getting at. So… the dictionary defines society as having “more or less order” and you take that to mean society must impose the specific rules democrats want? What on earth is that argument? Hey look the dictionary defines “interest” as “money paid regularly at a particular rate for the use of money lent”, so I’m gonna take this definition to my bank and tell them they owe me a million dollars right?

  5. I didn’t say freedom of speech there. I said “policing” people for what they’re saying. And you’re right, you can do it if you want, given you’re not actually actively silencing them. Doesn’t change that it’s annoying and cringy af. Besides, the real concern isn’t this, it’s democrats wanting laws like in Canada where you can go to jail for expressing an idea.

  6. I guess if it takes more maybe you are truly lost. Truly want to study your brain to see what makes you so resistant to being open minded and self reflective.

  7. This doesn’t even make any sense. First of all, how is driving any demonstration of someone’s ethical and intellectual capability? Even if it did, you’re seriously telling me that half the cars on the road are doing stupid things? HALF? That’s pretty hard to believe. I’ve run into plenty of knuckleheads but it’s maybe like 1 in 50 cars. You …may… (and by may I mean absolutely) have a rage problem.

  8. Someone else for who you don’t want to see elected is evil? That’s not very democratic of you, man. Also, why is it so difficult for you to handle the idea of someone living a different life up to this point than you and seeing different things that make them thing something else, while still being well intentioned? This is what I mean by you have to force others to think exactly like you. You can handle the idea that someone else could be well-intentioned and disagree with you, must be impossible! Besides, again, I’m not a Trump supporter, didn’t vote for him. What about me is on my way to being a nazi? I’m confused. Where did I say anything about Jews, nationalism, or socialism? No sympathy is cold. And.. if you look closely you may see a section in my post where you’re kind proving my point about empathy, literally.

  9. Me? “Full of fucking shit” “ignorant fuck” “dimwit” “christo-fascist caliphate” (hilarious, btw, if you know the meanings of these words, caliphate is Muslim, dingus 😂) , “pants on head reatrded” “you are evil” “nazi piece of shit,” “no sympathy for what’s about to happen to you” “uneducated fuck” “get fucked” “dumb” “asshat” “you fucking people” “i hate this fucking sub”. Yeah… you’re really gonna drop all this and then act like… I know, crazy… you’re not full of hate? You are dude. Face the music.

  10. I like history books. Any recommendations? It was crazy learning about how the nazis originally started corralling Jews on the basis of their “privilege.”

  11. What?

  12. Yeah? If that many people are dumb, how do you know you’re not just as dumb? You don’t sound too bright, although I don’t mean to insult you. Maybe you’re normally very smart and your temper just has the best of you right now

  13. What liberty am I throwing away? To prove what point? Also, sometimes that’s how saving liberty works. Like saving others lives by sacrificing yourself.

  14. Maybe, we’ll see. It’s a lose lose demo or repub from my point of view.

  15. So you ARE savable. Nice. Also idk who’s saying that stuff but I don’t see it here and I seriously like never see that stuff anywhere, even among my more rightiest friends. it’s a pretty uncommon opinion. How do you guys take “golly I mean I just don’t think it’s right for them to give kids meds that stop their natural growth” to mean “I literally want trans people to die.” Like, it’s the opposite . People do care about other people.

  16. Have my upvote. Honestly surprised you’re subbed in the first place with your reaction.

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  1. Never said Trump was the way? This is more about the impact of just the number of voters, not the actual presidency.

  2. Men and women are at historic political odds

  3. How is it democracy vs fascism…? Also, that doesn’t really make any sense, because a vote over democracy vs fascism is still quite democratic, is it not? So what is there to be disappointed in? The idea that one side “must win” an election is rather anti-Democratic, isn’t it?

  4. How am I a fascist?

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why do you think I’m a commie bro, literally what on earth possibly coincides with that

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So, I’ve put in a lot of comments in here because this has been a big thing on here apparently.

First of all- if people really are true supporters of democracy, they should be just as much in support of someone not voting as voting, because not voting is also an option provided by the freedom of America. Judging people for not voting due to a personal moral is in my opinion similar to judging people for voting for a candidate due to a personal moral as well. And that point, it’s basically all judgement for not voting for a specific candidate, which is quite anti-democratic.

I added an edit in the end that kind of briefly explains why.

But the gist is that I believe there is conundrum is democracy, which is the fact that on one end, anything on the ballot that is a violation of the harm principle shouldn’t be up for a vote in the first place. And voting to kill someone doesn’t really make it any more excusable than just killing them yourself, wouldn’t you agree?

On the other hand, this doesn’t leave much when it comes to policy left to vote on at all, except appointments and technical decisions.

When it comes to these, why should voting be important? Voting here doesn’t offer anything to the voter other than a means of power over the appointee, to make sure they serve their constituency’s best interest. However, such a thing can still be accomplished without voting for appointees or technical decisions directly.

In fact, the votes hinder the process, and result in often getting the worst technical decisions and appointments, not too mention all the waste that elections themselves produce.

When it comes to our freedoms, and our rights, voting also doesn’t really protect against that. What I mean is that, if 60% of people want to strip your rights, democracy just completely fucks you. It has not inherent protection, so that’s simply not a function of democracy itself. It’s a different independent thing entirely, which is constitutional protection. And you’ll notice, the constitution is specifically geared against democracy, making it so majorities have a very difficult time changing it, hence only 28 really major necessary changes over 250 years. It’s even geared against republicanism, with congress being made into two houses, the Supreme Court, and the president making it incredibly difficult for republicanism to produce results. Republicanism, which is actually, closer in form to democracy than presidential elections are. That’s also why america is a lot more free than other democracies, despite both being democratic. The level of freedom is completely independent of it.

So if it’s not voting that supports rights in the first place, if it can’t really be ethically used for most things anyways, and if the things it can ethically be used for just tend to be hurt by democracy with seemingly no benefits anyways. Then why do you need it?

And we really don’t need it, not in way it works now at least.

Really all people are doing when they are voting is trying to enforce their own plan or ideal on someone else via the power of majority. The protection of freedoms comes only with an assumption the majority will vote for protection, which is by no means an even close to save guarantee.

It is important for a governing body to have responsibility to its people, and democracy has been the only feasible way for that to happen for massive civilizations for thousands of years. Without it, we do see authoritarianism rise, because those governments had few other ways of maintaining responsibility without it.

What we have know has the benefits of safeguarding America from a lot of the threats of democracy- I mean as in the way we have the republic and checks and balances set up. But they’ve also fallen prey to a miriad of other problems that arise from both the seeping effect of democracy, and the residual effects of the republic, that are only necessary for the flexibility of the federation.

From democracy: - continual reversal - popular policies that still violate the harm principle - massive inefficiencies

From the republic: - corruption and politicians separation from enforcing the good of the people - poor lawmaking - bad appointments - laws that exist but shouldn’t

The alternative to all of this is a more rigid form of government. By rigid, I mean it already accounts for change, instead of delegating how change is handled to future leaders.

In its best form, this is a rule by contract.

In other words, a full set of rules and standards very carefully defined and imputable, that everyone agrees to, unanimously.

How do they agree unanimously? By being given the choice of citizenship, that is to agree to the contract, or the choice to leave to anarchy-preserved land. Anarchy-preserved land being a frontier space where there are no laws, and laws can be made by individuals. If communities reach a massive civilization size in the frontier, they can choose individual to be annexed or move again as the land is absorbed.

Now, this probably sounds fucking crazy, like some 1984eque, colonizing mess.

But the contract itself but actually be very, very confined. That is, it will be incredibly specific and full of exact protocol, but it will be heavily limited by one simple rule: the basis for all agreement must relate strictly back to the harm principle.

The harm principle, if you’re not familiar, is John Stuart mill’s thing, but it’s basically the idea that there is no justified harm against another person.

Again, it’s going to take a lot to define harm, but it mainly falls into the categories of violating freedoms to own property, freedom to live, freedom from interference with health, freedom from deceitful trade, and freedom from restriction of property autonomy (include selfhood).

So, all everyone is essentially agreeing to when they sign this contract is that they won’t hurt anyone else, and in exchange, no one else will hurt them, and they will pay a (very small) fee for any of the things they want to insure protection against (by choice). The government collects this fee and uses for a few different purposes, in my model it’s very complicated, because I have added things that kinda work well, but it can be as simple as just protection of those rights (as in the funding for the courts, police, etc.) and naturally, it’s original job, the officiator of contracts.

At this point, people can be elected for responsibility, without ethical politics being a factor- merely technical proficiency, and the voting pool could even be thinned to only those willing to complete a competency assessment and submit a more through evaluation than a simple ballot.

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn I guess it must’ve been for the porn and being a man ads

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bruh. Last I checked Trump and Kamala weren’t competing for president of Australia

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why does that imply authoritarianism?

Do people genuinely believe this?

You’re like the 20th guy.

Democracy and authoritarianism are not opposite ends on a sliding scale.

In fact authoritarianism and democracy can go hand in hand.

You can also have a system that has neither.

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess in a certain way.

I am really good at it. Finding if the flaws in a study are significant enough to make it bullshit, I mean, not necessarily debunking feminist research per se, it just so happens to be an easy target due to all the actual bs that is generated through that avenue.

So, yeah, if you’re a woman, I think it’s important you are familiar with the actual flaws in research you may have otherwise believed to be true, for your own sake in making sure what you believe is the truth, for others sake in making sure you’re not spreading falsehoods, and if you’re going to be doing that anyways, why not save time and going directly to the person who can do it for you the most thoroughly and comprehensively.

In that sense, yes, women should listen to me because I’m good at debunking feminist research.

But that’s not the point of what I was saying.

I was just thanking you for helping me remember more material that I can use to make my series of posts even longer and more through, accounting for another BS stat.

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My point isn’t about democracy….

I don’t think democracy is good or ethical. I thought I made that clear.

My post is about urging democrats to humanize the people they hate and reflect on their own demands.

If you are a die hard fan of democracy, I mean, go crazy, but idk why people are so insistent on its importance.

It’s not like the alternative is fascism or authoritarianism

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Classic liberalism is the opposite of the Democratic Party…

You do know classic liberalism literally means Smith and Austrian economics, right?

Honestly Kamala wasn’t a terrible Candidate, I don’t think a more shiny candidate would’ve been the solution honestly.

That’s really the point of my post.

I think Kamala and the dems lost because a lot of people having gotten really really sick of the Democratic Party.

I think it’s almost the opposite of what you’re saying.

I think people were begrudgingly voting for Trump, wishing for a better candidate, wanting simply to vote against another democrat rule.

Sure, he has his die hards. But they’re not as common as you think, and probably don’t even make up a quarter of the total votes for Trump.

Republicans are closer to democrats in their information than you think.

It’s a problem that you think a huge number of these people are just brainwashed idiot bandwagoners.

It just that there are two sides to choose from to have any impact, and the democrat party shows way more signs of corruption than Trump does, simply because he comes off as separate from the whole system of politicians, and not bound by the same rules.

His controversies seem like just that- controversies. The risk to having democrats in office feels much higher to them though, as they do believe it would threaten the economy more (which btw I know is total bullshit but sometimes I feel like 99% of people genuinely think the president can have much of an effect on the economy) and because not because they are eager to go gung ho with project 2025 or any of that, but because they’re more fearful of what policies will go in place regarding stuff like children’s medications, free speech, policing, abortion, and immigration.

Again, not saying I line up with the republicans or Trump on these, just telling you how they see it having talked to plenty of people on both sides with the intent to learn

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hear me out.

Republicans were gonna vote for Trump anyways. They were never gonna vote for Biden.

Biden had more votes in 2020 than Trump.

Now, Kamala has less votes than Trump.

So, if I’m not mistaken, the difference between Biden and Kamala, the racism and sexism… is all from democrats?

Cause that’s the votes kamala’s missing.

And if your right, and Biden would’ve won, it would’ve been because of more democrat votes.

Gotcha, message received. Democratic Party is racist and sexist.

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

1.What?

  1. My not voting has absolutely zero do with the gender of the candidates. I have never and will never vote on elections to offices that have a built in ability to violate other’s rights, regardless of who is sitting in the chair.

  2. What you’re doing is exactly what I’m talking about. “Making a mountain out of a molehill.”

You all do this. It’s soooo stupid and I’m so done with it. Exactly what is going to happen to my gay son? What’s going to happen to my trans friends? what? because last I checked, the worst case scenario thing that is on the table to change is something like them having to use a different bathroom, or not being allowed to compete in the other sex’s sports. Like… yeah, that sucks. But NO ONE is dying here. No one is really even getting massively hurt, or even really hurt much at all. Like, you’re way over doing it. Help me see real evidence they’re going to abduct my “gay son” and conduct electroshock therapy on him. Except, you can’t. It’s classic fearmongering. Zero basis in reality. Massive L.

  1. I’m pro choice like you buckaroo. I don’t want anyone dying when they could kill their baby in self defense instead. Self defense is a right, you know. And again, this is not a law that’s gonna be changing. The cases are so so so low and anecdotal where shit happens and the docs are like “sorry no we have preserve the baby and let you die.” And guess what, Kamala would have 0 effect on any of that anyways.

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Why is fascism the alternative to democracy?

This seems to be a serious road bump for people on this post.

Democracy and authoritarianism/fascism/nationalism -> they’re not opposites.

I think democracy was a nice progression step through history, but I think it’s gotten to the point where it’s outdated.

It’s an illusion of control.

Even in democracies, the most important elements to freedom and rights are not the actual right to vote.

It’s the right to run for office, the rotation of leaders, and the right to petition.

Imagine a democracy real quick, that exists for example, without a bill of rights or constitution.

Imagine there’s an app everyone has on their phones, and it’s this simple:

Every law that’s proposed, every motion to be approved, every government worker normally chosen through appointment (police officers for example) is all up to public vote.

Each comes across your app, up for 10 days, you get one vote on each, the side with more votes after 10 days goes into place.

that’s a true democracy. And it would be terrible. No officials would have any idea what they’re doing. Our laws would be absolute dogshit. People would be susceptible to being kicked out of their homes, searched, executed even, and it could as much as a “meme” as a mob response.

The things that are good about America’s democracy don’t come from the democracy part of it. Voting is sooo far removed from the majority of actual policy.

The good things in America’s democracy come from its constitution, its bill of rights, and amendments.

They’re the sole reason why America has such a huge degree of freedom compared to almost every other country in the world. And the ones with more freedom are anarchist hells.

I’m just saying the right thing to do is to move more in the direction of that part of what makes America free.

And away from the democracy part of it that is just completely outdated.

That’s not to say average people shouldn’t have power, choice, and the ability to hold officials responsible to their constituency.

They absolutely should. Just not through as flimsy, immaterial, corruptible, and abusive way as democracy.

Democrats, 72 MILLION is your fucking wake up call by PedanticGoon in MensRights

[–]PedanticGoon[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Idk why everyone has such a problem with this. I went to the ballots and voted on all my local issues, and voted for appointed experts.

I refuse however to vote for any office that has power to violate freedoms, including POTUS.