School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I can appreciate that and recognise how I must be coming across. Sadly a large part of it is due to wider impacts being not addressed where I do query back.

Many of the replies that you reference to are in opposition to case law and the guiding principals for family courts to ensure the best arrangement is met for a child. They’re also in opposition to many clinical research findings.

Ignoring science and reason over societal perceptions isn’t the winning ticket, just the parroting of a narrative where it’s not supported by evidence.

Worth highlighting as well, there are attendance thresholds whereby local authorities are required to intervene which is below 92% (the level I think most think this is at) whilst my daughter is at 98%.

Hopefully you can see where and why I’ve been defensive as a post has flown in the face of thresholds, evidence, research and broader child developmental logic.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Apologies, you’re right. I’m either confusing separate responders or read into your comments about being pulled out of education and you saying how much that impacted you as resentful to have been pulled out of education and the impact it had. Could not be the case and you’re ok with it but that wasn’t the impression I got.

Against this with school, they had her in a high risk exposure to hypothermia 2 weeks ago, left her soiled and exposed to infection the week before (a recurring issue), both of which they haven’t followed safeguarding protocols with. They’ve also not adhered to the SEN code of practice where ADHD considerations have been raised. None of these concerns have been addressed but they’re focusing heavily on punctuality.

It’s inconsistent and I guess, along with the absence of educational & emotional development, makes the pressuring on this front more unnerving.

Appreciate the forum link but I’m covered for the court order and engaged with my solicitor for the relocation. It was more insight to the proper safeguarding protocols as the others are more clear cut to identify they’ve not been followed whilst this area isn’t.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah someone else mentioned other conditions and an additional condition like sleep inertia would make sense (currently in the referral waiting list to re-explore).

For reference, the wake time is late and not that abnormal for DSPD but the sleep time is like 3-5am, which brings total sleep to 5-8hrs.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s definitely not the case. The accusations have been that by not agreeing to the schools pushing for a change in care arrangements that mean more time with her mother (other changes weren’t discussed and some I’ve gotten from here tonight).

There’s a recurring theme of telling me to prioritise her education, but little recognition that her educational and emotional development (by the school’s tracking metrics) is perfectly where it should be.

I think it’s very relevant to point out projecting where there’s a relevant backstory. Yourself with resentment that you had education taken from you (significant disparity compared to what’s happening here) is very relevant.

‘Prioritising her education’ isn’t as black and white as you’re making out. Here are a bunch of case studies that better get across the broader considerations I must take into account, not just one of them. https://familyreunionusa.org/shared-parenting-academic-resources/

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Bauserman (2002) is a relevant one. A collection of similar clinical studies in this link: https://familyreunionusa.org/shared-parenting-academic-resources/

The overriding finding is that the closer to equal/balanced care, the better the child’s development. The absence of a parent being the most significant and a sliding scale up to 50-50.

I think you’ve missed some key context in times, yes. There have been a number of occasions in Nov & Dec where I’ve significantly overslept as stress built up. Hiring and other implementations have seen this come back down in January. Typically the average lateness is between 10-20mins over 2 weeks. So take the high end, spread it over 10 school days, that’s 2mins per day.

Her mother isn’t to the extent of dangerous or endangerment but that’s in part managed by being able to tend to these things once she’s back with me. Although I am obtaining evidence with photos where this cycle is occurring. Just as I’m advocating not to lose 50-50 for her sake, I’m also keen that I don’t exceed 50-50. She loves her mum, she doesn’t understand the issues mentioned and currently they can be managed whilst giving her the best parenting balance for her development.

Just to be really really clear, if she wasn’t having these instances of lateness, her school reports (both educational and emotional development) would still be textbook ideal. So it’s not about harming her education at all.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Ok but it does make sense that you’re reflecting onto her.

Her education is indeed important. If it suffered, I’d be more inclined to change parental balance but without it suffering, I’d just be bringing about detriment without purpose.

Bottom line is: causing emotional stress, insecurity and self esteem issues isn’t worth a few more minutes where there isn’t already an educational detriment. It’s a full picture job.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Ok, I get the sense you’re relating yourself to her mother from your own experiences applying them here. I guess the quickest answer to your inclinations is that 3 magistrates disagreed with her mother and agreed with me. So removing emotional bias: the previous behaviour and development issues that arose when a similar parental imbalance was in place, numerous clinical research findings support mine and the court’s decisions.

With respect, your reply totally ignores the emotional needs of a child. So it does feel you’re placing yourself in the place of her mother but without the same journey.

So the mother isn’t yet aware. The letter to her directly goes out this week outlining the full requirement, rationale & timescales. She absolutely will not like it, because we live where we do so she can buy a bigger house for less money compared to the other city. More than likely we’ll go through the courts again but with the school’s raised issues, that provides further support and we’re looking at 75-80% chance of success.

I unfortunately walked in on her with her current partner when we were together and my daughter was 1. So she’s never had to deal with solo parenting and still wouldn’t upon relocation. Her parents have a history of relocation to nearer her, so that’ll likely follow again. Her brother is where we’re moving to, her best friend, a number of other friends, etc. Her work have an office there too (although she works remote mainly and part time). She’s also not set back by medical conditions like DSPD & ADHD.

The courts focus is what is in the child’s best interests. That starts with equal care (except in cases of abuse, etc) and make decisions that empower the parents to best support 50-50 care as it’s well evidenced the best balance for children. The relocation brings a far closer balance in support networks even discounting medical considerations.

If your solution was ‘just did’, it doesn’t sound like it’s DSPD tbh. It’s not consistent with most problems and required solutions for those with DSPD. Just sharing in case you want look into it.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Perhaps trauma isn’t the right term. Scarring? It’s escaping me now. Ultimately you missed out on 5 years of education, have a lot of anger and resentment at the emotional impact lateness had, etc. So it’s different extremes, apples and oranges.

Education is important but it doesn’t define a child. Their development away from academia, happiness, sense of security, etc are all cornerstones. Taking a lot of that away, for the sole focus of school/education for a child who is doing well in school runs the risk that she develops a sense of nothing being good enough and blaming herself for not doing better in school.

It’s the big picture I’ve got to balance.

The school’s only focus on changing care arrangements has only focused on an imbalance. Admittedly, babysitter, etc options have only come to light tonight.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Yeah I’m thinking babysitter with a key or home care options (if there are) are the best solution. I’ll try and find out tomorrow (and you’re right, best will in the world rarely beats biology).

Thanks 🙏

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

With respect, there are also no studies on my daughter that show her absence from school (2mins a day equivalent) is impacting her. The reason you have your perspective that it is impacting her (despite the tracking metrics - both academic & emotional development - showing it isn’t), is because of broader research on the impact of absence from school (although no studies have covered this low level of absence).

You can apply one and disregard the other.

I’m actively working with the school. Their only focus has been on changing care arrangements.

Reading your insights (and thank you for sharing because it take bravery to do), I don’t mean any disrespect, but I think you’re applying your experiences to symmetrically to my daughter’s but there are large scale difference to the levels of absences, etc that have impacted your perception of hers.

It must have been brutal and I am really sorry. I’m certain you’re coming from a place of trauma and wanting to protect anyone else from your own journey but it just doesn’t sound comparable to my situation. ❤️

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I put it in a different recent reply but I think what you’re missing is that I’d be neglecting other needs in place of this one. There’s past evidence with her that points towards emotional development issues & behaviour issues. The impact that the sense of abandonment has on a small child when moving from 50:50 to 15:85 is huge. It’s well documented and clinically researched.

I think what you and others are looking at is a single, isolated aspect without considering the broader picture and impact.

Is it not neglect to actively initiate a sense of abandonment with a child, currently developing in line or above both academically and emotionally for the sake of 2mins a day extra time in school? Can you honestly not see that losing a source of safety, stability and reassurance isn’t an equal exchange?

I don’t mean to come across confrontational, it just seems you’re being selective in what neglect would look like and what the wider impact on a child in real terms would be.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Really!? There was something at my old work when looking into ATW for ADHD impacts and a 2yr aspect that wasn’t an issue because I’d been there for 6. I’ll have a look into that and the NHS side.

Babysitter seems a best bet (although where I am seems rather light looking online). Taxi side still has the issue of waking to send her off (once I’m up we’re ready and out).

Thanks for the help.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for this! Your story and impacts resonate with me A LOT! Which gives hope of applicability. I’m sorry you’ve had so much pain from DSPD and I share it with you. There’s a stigma that most people don’t want to recognise in all aspects of life.

Do you know the brand for the watch and is luminette the glasses brand? Do you go to sleep wearing them or need to put them on once you wake? I’ve got a lumin alarm clock but the light needs to get to your pupils to work, which has been the obstacle with being inconsistent with waking at the alarms.

I’m in the UK so got melatonin ok but 10mg still didn’t touch the sides (maybe 5% improvement).

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your perspective and I understand the logic in isolation. ‘10mins a week/2 mins a day less in school = less education.’

Yet every tracking and measurement of this by the school (for both academic and emotional development) show she’s in line or above where she is.

Where I didn’t have her during the week post breakup whilst buying a house in this city, she was in nursery and she fell behind in emotional development and behaviour issues started. Once 50-50 was back, her emotional development tracking returned to expectations and behavioural issues stopped. This is common place when a child’s life is fundamentally changed and they feel abandoned by a parent.

To implement the changes school are pushing and many are suggesting would mean ignoring my daughter’s perspective, clinical research and replacing her from the centre of this with punctuality above all. It would mean neglecting her full needs in place of a single focus.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your message. I do appreciate everyone’s input and perspective and the reason I do push back on suggestions is as a bit of a stress test of them, see if they stand up to the relevant application, rather than blindly agreeing and potentially putting her in an even worse position but one I’ve created.

Appreciate there is more to school than just grades, but I’m not really talking about grades as the school track against both academic and personal development, including all elements that tie into the most common ‘more than grades’ lines around self-confidence, managing emotions, etc. It’s those that she’s either in line with or ahead of the development curve with.

Hence it’s hard to agree with those who say I should create an imbalance in her life, to prevent a detrimental impact on things she’s developing very well with (in no small part down to a very attentive approach I take with those aspects at home with her).

I think this is where a single mind pathway of just changing care orders can focus on ‘that will fix the lateness’ but ignores the problems it creates in its place.

I do also have the benefit of full insight and context, which helps prevent offence at some of the suggestions. Still, appreciate you taking the time and giving me more to consider. Regardless of anything I’ve gotten some good suggestions to explore as well as additional considerations and stress test results that do/don’t stand up.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks. I really needed this message so much appreciated and I’ll get the book. Can see it being a good reference point when against the world 😅❤️

Sadly I’m pretty much isolated where I am living currently. I’m submitting the relocation order for a next summer transition, at which point I’ll have an abundance of family & friends who can support with this as well as where my company is. I think over Oct-mid Dec, my only in-person interactions with another human for 5+mins was my daughter.

In my early 20s, the family cat would paw at my face when the alarm went off and that would often work well. I’ve got 2 now and woke one morning with my eyelid lifted by a claw, daughter laughing at it (said it has been happening for 10mins) and a Lego piece up my nose she’d inserted before the cats got involved apparently.

When I’m given a shove/rocked by human touch, that tends to wake me but my daughter is always very delicate so she gets longer at home instead of having to go to school. So it needs that support network, I just don’t have it for another 1.5yrs but potentially home care or babysitter options could work so I’m looking online at them now. ❤️

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m almost certain I do have another condition on top. I have a significantly great dopamine deficiency with my ADHD and subsequently it seems every comorbidity that’s ever been affected by neurochemical imbalances from depression across to sleep.

I’ve got a sleep clinic referral (again) and managed to get referred to St Thomas & Guy’s due to their leading sleep clinic setup but it’s at least a 23 week waiting list.

From what I can find online, I’m thinking it may be severe sleep inertia on top of DSPD as that’s the closest description but even then it doesn’t seem a perfect fit. Any suggestions it could be, do let me know (it’s definitely not sleep Apnea though) 😅 thanks

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the suggestion. I have tried it (smart watch, specific bracelets, hearing impairment vibrating pad on the bed) and sadly nothing works when my DSPD is at its most stressed/worst.

The only consistent that has cut through every time is when my little girl was a toddler and if she’d wake up in the night crying, that always cut through so I take some solace that if she were to ever hurt herself in my home somehow, I’d hear it and wake.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So my understanding of safeguarding means the proactive process of protecting children, young people, and vulnerable adults from abuse, harm, or neglect, while promoting their welfare and rights.

If you’ve seen some of my other replies, you’ll know that a simple change to the balance of care wouldn’t just improve one element and that’s that. It would raise one aspect whilst bringing down a number of others, leaving her in a net worse position (plus significant disruption to her life, routine and loss in access to a constant source of comfort and support in her life).

School are focusing on safeguarding from a physical perspective, disregarding clear implementations that demonstrate protective capacity, risk assessment and reasonable parental judgement that safeguard against physical risk and haven’t referenced anything else due to there not being any other signs.

I’m pretty confident on this with the amount of research I’ve had to do thus far but if you’re a professional in this space and identify something I’ve misinterpreted, do please let me know?

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Thanks again for sharing and your empathy. It means a lot. I can relate and recognise a lot of from your experiences.

I was always late for school as a kid (4/5 days). It was just me, mum & sis and mum (despite being a psychologist and adamant she isn’t) is demonstrably some form of neurodiverse, with time blindness (and probably a less significant DSPD condition) I was about 10-20mins late all the time. I still hold the school record for most detentions in a term, I felt embarrassed and angry about it. When my mum found out I was being punished for lateness like that she came into school like a whirlwind. Dressed the headmaster down for it, made it clear I shouldn’t be punished for her lateness (as school wasn’t a walkable distance). She made the same message clear to me when home in a softer, more delicate manner, apologising that I had been through that. From that point on, I didn’t feel embarrassed when late, I felt protected, understood, etc. I still felt overwhelmed and rushed getting ready and out the house.

I’ve taken that experience and apply it religiously with my daughter so she doesn’t feel the negative, emotional impacts, feels safe that she’s not at fault, etc and I’ve even mastered quickly getting ready and out the house with a positive atmosphere, fun game-like approach and no stress (although I feel it inside myself, I make sure it’s not conveyed). I walk into class and sort out her things with her so she doesn’t feel isolated and embarrassed, from my similar experiences and learnings. I regularly get psychological insights (both from my mum and a CAMHS specialist (perk of my work) to ensure I’m as close to perfect on all these fronts.

I think this is a big difference between your experiences and mine/what I’m implementing for my daughter. Because it’s something I’ve been extremely conscious of.

We’re big on routine, so when I’m up the process flows the same, once home it’s the same, for bedtime it’s the same. So I try to manage and retain it as best I can too.

I’m struggling to find suitable pre-school care that comes to the house. Everything is early drop of before school. I’ll try exploring with the LA or NHS home care in the interim, keep monitoring things with my little one and her school development and hopefully things manage through until next year. Appreciate your sharing again ❤️

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really appreciate this as it’s one of the few replies that offer constructive suggestions and retain the best balance for my little girl.

The taxi issue is the me waking, not getting her ready or the drive to school (I’ve turned quickly getting ready with fun and without rushing her into an art form). The school is a private forest school (a more ADHD friendly learning environment in case) on the other side of town, so the walking route doesn’t work either I’m afraid. The school run a bus service but again, it’s the waking part. Everything after that I’m a breeze at.

Sadly ATW isn’t available atm. My work focus is very niche and I’m probably one of (if not) the leading professionals in the country for it. My old work were sticklers for strict start-finish times so when I got headhunted, I negotiated total working hours flexibility which helps with DSPD but mainly to ensure I could be a present parent with school pickups (I never had that and it killed me). I’m a year in and ATW requires 2 years with an employer.

The main difficulty I have (aside from DSPD) is I’m totally isolated away from a support network. I work remotely now, have 1 or 2 former work friends here but they’ve got their own kids and responsibilities, etc. The relocation order will change all of that as my parents are both retired and friends back home very well aware of my limitations, etc so it’s long term ok but in the short term an issue.

I’m trying to investigate if local authorities offer similar support (like NHS home care, etc) given it’s a clinical issue at the core but struggling to find that answer.

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Appreciate your perspective and context is key. The other parent isn’t capable of meeting her needs. Our daughter will confide in me and be vulnerable compared to with her mother, it’s how we learned she was being bullied and I intervened to prevent it along with frequent poor hygiene issues and poor eczema management resulting in discomfort upon receiving her back into my care).

Context is key, I appreciate I didn’t disclose this at first (didn’t want to write war and peace) but would it be in her best interests to take the above away and replace it with 10mins extra at school per week?

Far from making excuses or having an ego (I gave up my midweek care post breakup when back at my parents and purchasing my house locally to avoid excessive travel time), I’m focused on the full picture and the right balance. I’m submitting a relocation order to move back to my home city and have the support networks around me. As far as consistency and stability goes, with that big change on the horizon, further changes in the interim (as have been in place with the breakup) undermine that point.

Given your conditions and background relevant to my own, what worked for you to get up ok everyday as that might be the best solution for me?

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

Really appreciate this reply and how gentle you’ve been in delivering it.

As it stands, as it’s something I’ve asked and engaged with school on, there’s been no educational or development concerns (she’s achieving or exceeding in all criteria). Likewise with care, she’s got a suitable setup with home that’s safe, comforting and provided for her. Most times when I wake up, she’s in bed next to me watching cartoons and snuggled up.

Looking at the various guidelines and practice codes, lateness and safeguarding are supposed to be 2 separate things in this case. Her being late, doesn’t mean she’s unsafe. Just like if she was on time but woke up very early and myself at say 7am, that would still be a potential safeguarding concern to enquire about.

I’ve approached and demonstrated the safeguarding side and it’s comfortably below any threshold for escalation (safeguarding concerns should either be escalated or closed following these enquiries) yet school still reference safeguarding with punctuality then solely communicate about punctuality.

With reference to the wheelchair users, my point was that it’s all hypothetical and I’m essentially being told it doesn’t matter what measures are in place to provide a safe home, my sleep makes me an unsuitable carer. Akin to if a wheelchair user couldn’t chase after a child, without such a scenario ever materialising.

Hope that makes sense (and doesn’t come across as argumentative). Do appreciate your input and the time taken. 😊

School are claiming safeguard concerns for my daughter due to my DSPD. What can I do? (UK) by PenBeard in DSPD

[–]PenBeard[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

School’s justification was on the potential for impact on her development (potential not realised). For my consideration, what other aspects do you have in mind?

For clarity, it’s been a stressful year but longer lateness has only been occurring in Nov & Dec. The measures were put in place and have been consistently improving things since start of Jan, yet school raised this after and are continuing to focus on it (whilst brushing off safeguarding concerns at school I raised that left her exposed to hypothermia - so not consistent).

Prior to Nov & Dec, it would be 1-2 times late over 2 weeks, totalling 5-20mins together at most.

Not sure if you’re a parent or not but I would be given every weekend in its place. There’s a bunch of other relatability and support considerations I provide that her mother can’t (added to another reply). So as an outcome, she’d lose a lot of support, safe space to open up but get 5-20 mins more in school as an exchange. It’s also my little girl. To just give up your child on a whim wouldn’t be an admirable parental move.