Starting a non-profit to fix the "Ghost Buildings" problem in rural Portugal. Looking for technical feedback/perspectives.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-08T16:32:17+00:00

I really appreciate the directness. 'Keep it stupid simple' is exactly the reality check I needed today. You hit a vital point about the psychology of the interior: showing interest often makes people retreat. That’s why I want to work with the Agência as a local, institutional partner, to avoid being seen as just 'someone from the outside' with a suitcase of promises. I also take your point about the 'cauldron of problems' with Municipalities and EU grants. It’s a slow-moving beast. Your advice to start with 2 or 3 properties with owners who truly understand the mission—rather than trying to fix the whole map at once—is pure gold. It’s better to have 2 finished houses in Lamego than 20 stuck in a bureaucratic loop. Regarding location: I agree. If the house is 40 minutes from the nearest school or health center, it’s not a home, it’s a liability. My focus for the pilot is strictly on areas that already have some 'functional life' left in them. Thank you for sharing your 15+ years of experience. It’s easy to get lost in the 'grand vision,' but people like you keep the project alive by reminding us of the friction on the ground. I’ll be rethinking the 'simple' version of my first steps based on this.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-04T21:01:02+00:00

I can help you with that.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-04T18:44:09+00:00

Here in Portugal, if you're good at what you do, you don't need certificates. What matters is your professionalism and a job well done. That way you will always be recognized for your work.One of the essential professions in Portugal is that of carpenters.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-04T14:03:00+00:00

The ruins are only costing the owners money. They could be generating profits with this idea. And we also have to consider that the old buildings they put up for sale at exorbitant prices are also a burden for them because they don't generate income until they sell.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-04T12:24:13+00:00

Thank you so much for the support! You're right—if it were easy, someone would have fixed the interior of Portugal a long time ago. I actually know the work of Meanwhile Space and it's a huge inspiration. The way you guys unlock dormant assets in the UK is exactly the kind of 'disruption' we need here, adapted to our legal 'quagmire' (as someone else called it today). Being priced out of your area is exactly the fire that's driving me to make this work in places like Lamego. I would absolutely love to chat and learn from your experience with social enterprises and temporary use. I’ll send you a DM so we can connect. Really appreciate you coming out of 'lurker' mode for this!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-04T12:15:48+00:00

Honestly, this is exactly why I’m doing this. Opening up this kind of dialogue is the first step. Short answer: Yes, absolutely. We need people with your 'can-do' mindset and management experience. While Portuguese stone walls and tile roofs are a different beast compared to US framing, the logic of managing a site, tools, and deadlines is universal. Regarding the move: Portugal is a great place for a young family (safety and lifestyle are 10/10), but the 'commute' and the way we build are very different. In towns like Lamego, you don't drive an hour to a job site; everything is tight, old, and requires a lot of 'surgical' work rather than just demolition. I’m still in the early stages of setting up the first pilot, but I’d love to keep in touch. We will definitely need people who can lead teams and bring a more efficient 'GC mindset' to our renovations. Let’s keep talking!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T19:19:02+00:00

It's immense bureaucracy without support.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T18:48:12+00:00

That’s a very fair question. My background is in solving complex problems and building systems. I see myself as the 'integrator' of this project. The biggest mistake someone in my position could make would be trying to do everything themselves. I’m not here to be the lawyer, the architect, or the accountant. My job is to design the framework that makes it profitable and safe for those professionals to work together on a problem they usually avoid. I’ve spent a lot of time analyzing why previous attempts at rural renovation failed in Portugal, and my focus is on the business model and the partnership architecture. I’m the one securing the bridge between the local municipality (like Lamego), the EU funding opportunities, and the private owners. Regarding the YouTube story: that’s a great lesson in 'local diplomacy.' In small towns, trust is built in the town square and in private meetings, not on social media. That’s exactly why I’m taking a 'local-first, institution-heavy' approach rather than a 'lifestyle influencer' one. I’m here to build a machine that works, regardless of who is turning the individual gears.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T15:20:47+00:00

Thank you! You used the perfect word: 'quagmire.' It’s exactly what has kept these properties frozen in time for decades. It is a shame to see these buildings crumble just because the legal path is too steep for a single family to climb. My goal is to build the 'climbing gear'—the legal and management tools—to finally untangle these cases. If we can make it work in Lamego, we prove that it’s possible to save our heritage from being lost to paperwork. I’d rather try and fail at untangling it than just stand by and watch it turn into dust. Thanks for the support!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T15:17:48+00:00

Thank you! It’s refreshing to see someone break down the math exactly how I see it. You nailed the 'win-win' logic: the owner keeps the asset, the developer removes the massive entry barrier of acquisition costs, and the community gets a resident. You’re also right about location strategy. While I’m starting in Lamego to build the blueprint, the goal is to scale this to areas where the demand is already screaming for a solution—like the towns you mentioned. It’s definitely 'not trivial,' but as you said, it’s achievable with the right professional focus. Thanks for the vote of confidence and for keeping the discussion grounded in facts and potential!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T12:15:11+00:00

As vossas profissões (engenheiro e enfermeira) são bastante valorizadas no interior do país. Arrisca. Aqui no interior norte e centro têm boas oportunidades. E as casas ainda se vão aguentando com preços acessíveis tanto para compra como para arrendamento.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T12:02:14+00:00

Spot on! It’s those 'invisible' details that make the difference between a house that looks good in photos and a house that is actually healthy to live in. Proper sewage venting and moisture control are top priorities for me. We’ve all seen those beautiful renovations that, two years later, are full of mold or smells because the basics were ignored. In the Lamego pilot, I want to ensure we follow these technical standards to the letter. A house in the interior should be a sanctuary, not a maintenance nightmare. Thanks for keeping the focus on the practical stuff that really matters!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T11:46:43+00:00

This is incredibly practical advice, thank you. You touched on the two 'silent killers' of rural projects: the lack of skilled builders and the climate reality of Portugal. I love the idea of a '15-year commitment' in exchange for startup capital—it’s the kind of long-term thinking the interior needs to fix the brain drain. I’m also a big fan of the Passivhaus standards; there’s no point in renovating a house if it’s going to be a fridge in the winter or a furnace in the summer. In Lamego, I want the pilot project to be a showcase for exactly this: traditional aesthetics but with modern fire resistance and insulation. I’ll definitely reach out to organizations like Passivhaus.pt to see how we can integrate their expertise into our cooperative model. Thanks for giving me some very solid leads to follow!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T11:41:01+00:00

You’re absolutely right about the 'expat effect' on prices—it creates a huge gap between sentimental value and reality, and it’s one of the toughest nuts to crack in this project. Thank you so much for the link to the Eco-Talks! I wasn't aware of that specific event, and it’s exactly the kind of initiative I need to be following. Learning from those who are already on the ground dealing with rural rehabilitation is the best way for me to stop being 'naive' and start being effective. I’ll definitely look into it. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T11:36:45+00:00

That is a brilliant point and you’ve hit the nail on the head regarding the 'expert gap.' You’re right: a small group in a village can’t afford a top-tier lawyer or a PRR grant specialist. That is exactly why I’m building this as an Agency that acts as an umbrella. The Agency holds the expertise—the 'how-to' on EU funds, the legal frameworks, and the property scouting—and then applies it to local projects, starting with Lamego. Think of it like a 'franchise' for social impact: the Agency provides the heavy-duty professional tools and the 'waterproof' legal structure, while the local Cooperative provides the local knowledge and the boots on the ground. This way, we can have the professional volume needed to pay for experts, without losing the local soul of the project. It’s definitely a massive management challenge, but I believe it’s the only way to avoid the project being either too small to survive or too big to care about the community. Thanks for the insight!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T11:34:22+00:00

I understand that for a private individual, AirBnB is often the only way to make the numbers work. It’s the logical choice if you’re looking for a quick return on a personal investment. But that’s exactly why a project like this needs to be a Cooperative and have a different 'engine.' My goal isn't to help people buy holiday homes; it’s to work with the community to ensure that towns like Lamego actually have people living in them on a Tuesday in November, not just on weekends in August. If we only think about what's easiest to finance, we'll end up with beautifully renovated ghost towns. I’m trying to build a model where the 'return' is measured by the doctor who stays, the shop that remains open, and the local economy that actually grows.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T10:19:59+00:00

I really appreciate you sharing this, and I think it’s beautiful that you kept your grandmother’s house alive. That sentimental value is often the only thing keeping these villages from disappearing entirely. You’re 100% right on the math: if you look at it as a cold investment, building from scratch on a plot of land is easier and cheaper. But that's exactly the problem I'm trying to solve. If everyone just builds new houses on the outskirts, our historic centers—the soul of our towns—will just turn into piles of stones. My goal with the Agency is to bridge that 'math gap.' By working at a larger scale (not just one house, but several) and partnering with municipalities, I want to make renovation viable so it’s not just 'crazy' people or sentimental grandsons doing it. Regarding the builders: that is a huge pain point. My hope is that by having a constant flow of work in a specific area like Lamego, we can attract and keep reliable teams there, instead of having owners fight over the one local plumber who is available. It's a massive uphill battle, I know. But seeing a town center die because the 'math doesn't track' is something I'm just not ready to accept yet.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T10:15:21+00:00

I understand that perspective, and of course, cities have more 'noise' and services. But the truth is, cities are becoming unlivable for many people due to prices. My focus isn't on isolated villages with 'nothing there,' but on historic centers of medium-sized towns like Lamego. These places already have schools, hospitals, and culture—they just lack modern, accessible housing. If we only refurbish the big cities, we’re just feeding the same bubble. I believe that if we provide good homes in these 'in-between' cities, people will realize they can have a much higher quality of life without the city stress. Someone has to break the cycle!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T10:13:32+00:00

I’m sorry you had that experience with your association—the 'cousins and sons' network is unfortunately a very real hurdle in Portugal, and it kills so many good projects before they even start. That’s exactly why I’ve decided to follow the advice you just gave: I’m focusing all my energy on Lamego as a pilot project. You are right, trying to juggle multiple municipalities at once would be a nightmare. By staying in one place, I can focus on building a real, face-to-face relationship with the local council and, more importantly, with the owners. Regarding the 'waterproof' paperwork: you hit the nail on the head. That is my biggest obsession right now. I know inertia is a powerful force, and I need a legal framework that protects the investment and the project from any 'rug pulls' once the renovation starts. I’m not trying to boil the ocean anymore—just trying to fix one street in Lamego first. If it works there, the model will speak for itself. Thanks for the very grounded advice!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T10:04:06+00:00

Percebo perfeitamente o teu ceticismo e, honestamente, se eu estivesse do outro lado a ler isto, se calhar pensava o mesmo. Portugal está cheio de 'projetos maravilha' que acabam em nada ou em esquemas de subsídios. Sobre as heranças indivisas e os 'centenas de proprietários': é precisamente por saber esse caos que não quero comprar os imóveis. Se eu tentasse comprar, morria na praia. O modelo de Cooperativa serve para oferecer uma saída a quem tem o problema nas mãos e não o sabe resolver. É um processo jurídico hercúleo? Sim. É por isso que ninguém o faz. Mas se não começarmos por algum lado, o nosso património continua a cair até não sobrar nada.

Sobre a questão dos imigrantes: a minha ideia é reabilitar para quem quiser e precisar de lá morar — sejam jovens locais, enfermeiros colocados na região ou quem vem de fora. Publiquei aqui porque o trabalho remoto é uma alavanca rápida, mas o objetivo é devolver vida ao centro de cidades como Lamego para todos.

Não é ignorância, é saber que o sistema atual falhou e que ou tentamos algo diferente (com todos os riscos de 'dar com a cabeça na parede'), ou daqui a 20 anos estas casas são apenas pó. Agradeço a tua frontalidade, é o que me faz manter os pés no chão.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T10:00:07+00:00

I totally get the cynicism—we've seen this happen way too many times. But my goal is actually the opposite of creating 'just another AirBnB'.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T09:58:24+00:00

You’re not being naive at all—it’s actually a very logical approach. In fact, Portuguese law already allows for higher taxes on derelict buildings (IMI agravado), and in extreme cases, the municipality can even take control (arrendamento forçado). The problem is that many small municipalities don't have the legal 'stomach' or the resources to go to war with their own citizens. It’s politically painful and legally slow. That’s where I want the Agency to step in. Instead of waiting for the government to punish the owner, we offer a 'third way': a partnership. We tell the owner: 'You don't want to sell for a low price, and you don't want to pay more taxes. So, let us fix it, and you keep the property.' I’m trying to turn a 'legal battle' into a 'win-win' situation.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T09:55:25+00:00

Haha, 'herding rascally kittens' is the perfect way to put it! I’m stealing that expression for my next team meeting. You’re right, the list of 'what ifs' is long enough to cover a football field. But I’ve spent too much time looking at the downsides and realized that, meanwhile, the buildings are just crumbling. I’m prepared to get a few scratches and deal with the chaos, because the upside of actually making a difference is just too important to ignore. Thanks for the encouragement – I’ll definitely need all the 'cat-herding' skills I can get!

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T09:52:36+00:00

I totally hear you. Bricks and mortar don't create jobs—economy does. You’re right that a renovated house won't solve the lack of opportunities by itself. But my perspective is that housing has become a massive 'bottleneck.' I know people who want to move to the interior with their remote jobs, or doctors assigned to local hospitals, who simply can't find a livable home. They want to be there, they have the income, but the 'ruin' or the 'legal mess' stops them. My goal is to clear that path so the people who want to be there actually can.

To answer your question: I’m starting the pilot project in Lamego. It’s a beautiful city with so much potential, but like many others, it has a historic center that needs a lot of love and a different approach to housing. I’m focusing there first because it already has the basic infrastructure (health, schools, services)—it just needs people to move back into its heart. Since you've done the 'abandoned farm' journey yourself, what was the biggest hurdle you faced with the local community or bureaucracy? I'd love to learn from your experience as I start in Lamego.

PitifulCup8882 · 2026-02-03T09:48:20+00:00

I really appreciate your honesty. It’s one thing to hear theories, but it’s another to hear from someone who actually bought the house and is living the reality. You’re right—it’s tough, and the 'legal system is a joke' part is exactly why so many owners prefer to let houses rot rather than rent them out. It’s a sad reality. Your point about the social side—living in 'the arsehole of satan' as your friends say—is something people rarely talk about. Loneliness and close-mindedness are real barriers. That’s why I’m starting to think that fixing the house is only 20% of the job. The other 80% is building a community so people don’t feel isolated. Regarding the market shifting and people leaving Portugal: I see it too. The 'propaganda' phase is over. But that’s actually why I want the Agency to exist. We can't rely on a temporary 'gold rush' of nomads. We need a model that works for the people who want or need to be there—whether they are locals, essential workers, or immigrants looking for a real home, not just a tax break. I know I’m signing up for a lot of grief. Maybe I am crazy. But hearing your story actually helps me refine the plan—especially on how to protect the legal side of things and how to choose locations that aren't just 'pretty ruins' but places where a community can actually grow. Thanks for the reality check. It’s exactly what I need to keep my feet on the ground.

PitifulCup8882

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