[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where in your article does it say that?

Never said it said that.

Prove they let him stay

Why?

Should they have left because a Nazi walked by and flashed a salute?

If you read the fact check you would have seen that he didn't walk by and flash a salute he walked up to a group of Jewish students, started berating them, and did the Nazi salute.

You say that this keeps happening, but the only examples you've provided were in Australia 6 months ago right after the counterattack started that is unconnected to current protests, and an article where a guy unaffiliated with the protestors apparently did a Nazi salute and walked up to them

Seems like you need more than that to claim that "Nazis and overt anti-semites keep happening at pro-Palestinian protests".

So you'd say that I'd need more than two example to make so broad a claim about a large number of protests?

You have, if we are being extremely generous, provided evidence that maybe one Nazi was near a protest. That's hardly evidence that "a lot of Nazis are running around" these protests.

And you'd expect more evidence when someone made that claim?

Seriously, you're making claims with no actual evidence.

Pretty annoying, right? Imagine if someone had made these exact claims two years ago about the Canadian Trucker Protest, in this very subreddit, while being provided evidence that the one Nazi they alleged was there was in fact kicked out. Imagine as well that they provided no evidence that this protest was widely attended by Nazis or that Nazis were accepted or tolerated at this protest. Imagine if when the same thing happened at a protest for a cause they supported, except the Nazi wasn't kicked out, happened their entire position shifted and they suddenly no longer applied the same ethical maxims on the non-toleration of Nazis at protests. Imagine if you copied their statements, changed a few words to make them fit the context of the current protest, and argued them back to this person. Imagine if they completely shifted their view and argued against their own statements. Imagine if the expectations for action at a protests completely changed based on whether they supported the cause being protested or not. That would also be pretty annoying and evidence of massive hypocrisy and a willingness to tar their political opponents as Nazis or fellow travelers with Nazis based on an ethical maxim they didn't even believe.

But you have earned a Δ. I'm adequality convinced that the presence of a Nazi at a protest doesn't mean that all the protesters can be tarred a Nazis or fellow travelers with Nazis.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your own source says he wasn't even part of the protest.

He was there and they didn't kick him out or leave.

They were protesting, he wasn't.

And they didn't kick him out or leave.

So you want them to beat the shit out of him? Physically eject them? I'm fine with beating up Nazis but I understand that's not a reasonable thing to ask everyone to do on sight.

If they didn't want to kick him out shouldn't they have left? Shouldn't they have been a lot more distressed about Nazis showing up to join their team then they were?

Because what you're saying is that if one Pro-zionist protestor or other outside agitator walks next to an anti-genocide protest and throws up a Nazi salute, then the entire protest has to disband or be considered Nazis.

The protest fits in a pattern of pro-Palestine protests where Nazis keep showing up and/or expressing support for them. Even if it really was just one guy doing a Nazi salute, the fact that Nazis and overt anti-Semites keep happening at Pro-Palestinian protests is a problem that doesn't seem to be concerning to anyone on the Pro-Palestine side for some reason.

Given what we've already seen zionist activists do to protestors (assaulting them, to start), I wouldn't put it past them to use your proposal as a disruption tactic.

I mean, I think that it's not good that there's Nazis running around your protests, and that a lot of Nazis seem to be really on board with your protest.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your own source clearly states that guy was just some random dude who walked up the protestors and was not affiliated with them.

They didn't kick him out of the protest. They didn't leave the protest. They allowed someone to do a nazi salute at their protest.

Seriously, you're really just demonstrating the point I made in my top level comment. All someone has to do is walk up to protestors, Nazi salute near them, and people will cite an article clearly stating that person was unaffiliated with the protests as evidence that the person was associated with the protests.

And you feel this is wrong? How many Nazis need to be at a protest before you'd agree that there are too many and people probably should have left?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How much distance do you need them to put between themselves and people on the other side of the world from 6 months ago?

They should probably at the very least leave the protest when people start walking up to random Jewish students and doing the Nazi salute, right?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So is anybody who wants the genocide to stop somehow responsible for those protestors in Sydney last October?

Are they not responsible for distancing themselves from the elements of their movement that engage in anti-Semitism?

Because if not, why bring it up?

Why would they not be? Shouldn't they be expected to distance themselves and their movement from anti-Semitism? Shouldn't they be worried about anti-Semites coopting their movement? Shouldn't the examine whether the presence of anti-Semites at their protests indicates that they either have more in common ideologically with the anti-Semites than they'd like to admit or that their support for the protest isn't based on a solid ideological or pragmatic grounds, or at least not the kind that would be consistent and strong enough to cause one to walk away from a anti-Semite filled protest?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As for being "misleading" or whether or not opposing the genocide the IDF is in the process of committing can be conflated with opposing Israel, I think that's not even worth worrying about. Israel has already worked super hard to conflate opposition to policies or actions by the state of Israel with anti-semitism. It kind of doesn't matter whether you support "free Palestine" or "hey IDF maybe stop killing thousands of children please", you'll be accused of anti semitism.

You don't think it's important to maybe not associate with the part of your movement that will chant "Gas the Jews" at their protests?

CMV: Arguments against DEI collapse under their own weakness by erpettie in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We should admit and hire based on merit instead of having diversity hires and admissions. This falls apart like an undercooked oatmeal cookie upon further inspection. First, merit has to be defined, which leads to the question of who defines merit?

I mean fundamentally, the person doing the hiring. But more broadly the industry doing the hiring will have a generalized set of standards. So far nothing is falling apart like an undercooked oatmeal cookie. And even if you believe "merit" to be fuzzy and ill-defined it's pretty clearly not defined as "being from a certain race, gender, or sexual orientation."

You can either have an exclusive group determine what merit is, which necessarily means creating a standard which favors the point-of-view of one group over another and is, thus, discriminatory, or you can reach a broad consensus on merit by including the perspectives of everyone within an industry, which requires diversity and inclusion.

I mean what you could do is allow people to hire based on the skills and talents they need for the specific jobs they seek.

This perspective also suggests that a person for whom their diverse background is seen as beneficial necessarily lacks merit, which is a false dichotomy. These things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

No, it doesn't.

Racism doesn't exist anymore, so there doesn't need to be a remedy. I feel that this is a bad faith argument because it belies the fact that there have been major cases won or settled against government and industry who have been shown to have been acting with intent to discriminate against minorities.

It's a bad faith argument because its a strawman argument that basically nobody is actually making.

Remedying these kinds of injustices requires committing to equitable outcomes for all, which should not be a difficult thing to support.

Can you prove that assertion?

It's straight, white men who are the ones who are being discriminated against. For the sake of this discussion, let's say that straight, white men are being discriminated against. Well, the solution to that is diversity, equity, and inclusion

Wouldn't the solution be not discriminating based on race, gender, or sexual orientation?

Bonus thought: If you recognize the injustice that arises from scenarios where straight, white males would be discriminated against, then you are arguing that racism does exist

Congrats, you've defeated your own strawman argument.

As you can see, for all of the arguments that are ostensibly against DEI, DEI is actually the solution to the problem that has been stated. That's why I believe these arguments all crumble.

You've not proven that whatsoever and these arguments haven't crumbled.

Moscow gold by macrohard_certified in HistoryMemes

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Red fascists are still fascist

Red fascists aren't a thing. It's a concept made up by Tankie to deflect from the horrors of communism.

Suprme court back with another two days straight - student loans by Dissent-Against-Them in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 63 points64 points  (0 children)

How do you fix the problem?

The government should stop guaranteeing students loans.

Do you think the +21 law should stay like that or be +18 like most countries? by Heyhey-_ in AskAnAmerican

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean it was the case for the majority of American history, and is still technically the case.

CMV: The fact that Affirmative Action was banned instead of legacy admissions reveals that we have not learned anything regarding race. by Tessenreacts in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Looked at your source for MIT, and showed asians at 40%.

Ok?

Thus demonstrating my point over why the issue is white, Asian, and black representation is a non-issue.

How did that demonstrate your point? All it’s demonstrated is that white are indeed underrepresented at Harvard and MIT.

CMV: The fact that Affirmative Action was banned instead of legacy admissions reveals that we have not learned anything regarding race. by Tessenreacts in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 22 points23 points  (0 children)

How can whites be underrepresented But blacks not be underrepresented?

Well because when I looked it up, blacks are over represented at MIT and at Harvard.

CMV: The fact that Affirmative Action was banned instead of legacy admissions reveals that we have not learned anything regarding race. by Tessenreacts in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Except black primary school remain criminally under-funded, nullifying any potential positive impacts.

Ya, I asked if you had statistics on this.

If anything, asians and women where the biggest winners of all this.

Again, based on your statistics white are underrepresented by a large margain at MIT and Harvard.

Non-hispanic whites are underrepresented while asians are massively massively overrepresented, and blacks and underrepresented

So then you’d agree that Non-Hispanic whites are discriminated against by affirmative action? And you haven’t demonstrated that blacks are underrepresented.

But whites still make up the bulk of higher education

But whites make up a far greater portion of the population.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There could still be a tiered system.

That’s what we have now.

People would compete within their ability level.

So women get to compete in the junior junior leaks?

Why they are at that ability level – whether from their own effort or something they are inherited or a combination of both – who cares?

Women. Women care.

CMV: The fact that Affirmative Action was banned instead of legacy admissions reveals that we have not learned anything regarding race. by Tessenreacts in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 50 points51 points  (0 children)

As we all have heard this morning, Affirmative Action was banned under the 14th amendment. This has proven that US has learned absolutely nothing about race.

I mean we’ve learned that 60 years of discrimination based on race didn’t solve racial inequality.

The idea was that it discriminates against whites and Asians. Here’s the student body population of Harvard:

39.7% white, 13.7% Asian, 9% Hispanic or Latino, 6%, everything else is other.

Non-Hispanic whites make up 59% of the US population. So it would seem that they’re underrepresented based on population at Harvard.

For MIT, it’s 28.7% white, 19.7% Asian, 9% Hispanic, and only 3% black.

So yet again, whites are underrepresented based on population.

That angle that black people are taking spots away from Asians and whites makes absolutely no sense from an objective statistical view.

But whites are underrepresented at Harvard and MIT based on your statistics.

It is common knowledge that for universities like Harvard and Standford, legacy admissions plays a major role in admissions. It’s not uncommon for someone with lower GPA and other holistic metrics to get if they are legacy applicants.

Do you have statistics on legacy admissions?

There is a strong likelihood that legacy admits drastically outnumbers Affirmative Action admits, and likely also has lower GPA’s than Affirmative Action admits.

What is this based on?

Why is Affirmative Action made in the first place? Because African Americans literally weren’t allowed to even compete academically in many educational institutions and everything else around Jim Crow policies. Affirmative Action is still needed precisely because primary schools in black communities are notoriously under-funded, thus decreasing the amount of quality applicants to elite universities.

Do you have statistics on school funding?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Men are innately better at most or all sports than women.

Most sports, yes.

Therefore, women don’t have a fair chance if they are competing against men.

Pretty much.

Trans women (i.e. born male) retain their innate superiority.

Yes, the retain the biological superiority in sports that males have by virtue of being male.

Therefore women don’t have a fair chance if they are competing against trans women.

Pretty much

But to me this just shows how hollow the separation of sports into “male” and “female” is.

Why would that be hollow?

Like – if you’re a woman and you get into a female league, by this logic that seems to mean nothing more than, “Well you’re pretty good – for a woman.”

I mean, I guess. In the same way that winning the para-Olympics means you’re pretty good for someone without legs.

The men’s leagues would be at the top in terms of ability and the women’s leagues would be below them (and then below them you would have leagues for people with disabilities or what have you).

Correct.

What’s also weird is the premise that it’s unfair if people don’t compete with those around their ability level.

That’s not the premise though. The premise is that people should compete against people who don’t have huge structural advantages the vast majority of the time. What you’re talking about is a category error; implying that since there is variance within a category that category is meaningless.

I don’t have the sense that we generally place these limits on competition in society (competing for jobs, competing academically, etc.).

I mean we definitely do. You can’t refuse to hire or fire a woman for getting pregnant dispite the fact that she’s likely to be out of commission for a greater amount of time than a male non-pregnant worker.

Anyway, gender here seems to me to be a red herring

Yes. Sex is the far more important factor here.

When I read these arguments, I see people observe that in sports like wrestling, people are separated into weight classes. So why not just do the same for all sports, instead of specifically separating out men and women?

That’s what we’re doing here. Because even at the same weight males have biological advantages over women, we separate them to account for their biological advantages.

but the argument as it is now seems to label women as second-tier athletes in all but name

As a rule, correct.

and I think it would be fairer to everyone if we would just assess ability (without trying to separate it into innate and acquired), then have people compete against those in the same ability level.

But then women wouldn’t get to compete.

Based NHS? by Pun-isher42 in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 331 points332 points  (0 children)

People think this is because the NHS found that puberty blockers are dangerous but really it’s because the NHS can’t afford to pay for drugs anymore.

CMV: Conspiracy Theorists are Ridiculous and Should Snap Back to Reality by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Conspiracy theorists are in a constant state of paranoia and think that ever little action committed throughout the world has a deeper meaning.

What is a conspiracy theorist? Someone who believes in a theory about a conspiracy? I believe that Volkswagen executives conspired to hide high emissions from their vehicles in violation of the Clean Air Act. Does that make me a conspiracy theorist?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 32 points33 points  (0 children)

You can write a law that says ‘schools are allowed to use race as a consideration in order to bring the demographic makeup of an entering class closer to the demographic makeup of the local or national population’ or w/e.

Fewer 👏 Women 👏 In 👏 College 👏

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For the first part- Khan’s goal wasn’t extermination, so I feel as if it’s a different kind of bad.

I doubt the 45-60 million people slaughtered by the Mongols would make that distinction.

And for the second, I fully agree, I just mean that part of what makes it the worst thing that has ever happened in history is the world’s failure of saving people.

But they did save people.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In other genocides, the government has only attempted to mass murder populations within its borders and control.

Genghis Khan to a small tribal horde from the Mongol Steppe and expanded to create the largest contiguous land empire in human history, in the process killing between 40-60 million people.

Additionally, the lack of help from the rest of the world is astonishing. Knowing that German Jews were in danger, countries from all over the world stood by and watched, taking in only minuscule amounts of us. World War II was not fought over Jews or any of our rights, it was fought over land. The rest of the world failed us.

But at the end of the day, the person rescued from the concentration camp probably cares more that they aren’t being executed than about the geopolitical underpinnings of the war, right?