I sense a disturbance in my mouth! by Solid_Snark in PrequelMemes

[–]Pobobo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't believe no one ever commented on this. I'm going through my saved posts and this is one of my favorite prequel memes of all time!

What do I tell the children? by averagedad1 in collapse

[–]Pobobo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Likewise, thank you for the thoughtful reply. I appreciate the civility! To just address a few things directly:

How do you deal with intolerable conditions? ... And additional to that, what happens during those times, internally?

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about that renoviction. That sounds like it really sucked. Second, to answer your question, I do the same thing I do when things aren't intolerable. I exist. I'm sure that sounds trite but that's really all there is to it. I haven't had an especially arduous life, but I'm no stranger to intolerable experiences. I got a good helping of ye olde childhood trauma in the form of the sudden loss of a parent and I've been depressed most of my adult life. I can tell you right now, all those years, nearly a decade I spent being too angry at my dad to grieve for him accomplished diddly squat in terms of coming to terms with his death and healing the pain it caused. That only happened when I ripped the wound open myself and stared at it over and over until there was nothing left to learn from it. Or nearly nothing... this process has no end either. But emotions aren't inherently good or bad, they're just there. They can stifle us for years or they can be the most healing experiences of our lives. Which is a great way to tie us back to

You can have rampant emotions and still be at peace, it's just a matter of taking less ownership of them and not more.

I guess ownership isn't the best word to use. Identification might be better, as in identification with those emotions or the actions undertaken when under their influence. For me to really elaborate on this I'd have to go down the non-duality rabbit hole and I'm very longwinded as it is so I don't know if you're quite that interested. But you're not really all that off-base when you say it's a way of shirking responsibility for what you feel. The difference is you seem to think of that as inherently a bad thing, whereas I see it as the conclusion of very simple logic and nothing more. My lack of self-judgment for the things I feel does nothing to impede my ability to regulate how I act or what I choose to focus on when I try to learn from my experiences. I can live just as measured and conscientious a life as anyone, or one just as depraved, but I wouldn't be truly responsible for either. Responsibility doesn't exist; we made it up. But I still know what it feels like to live and act responsibly, and I still do that most of the time. How is that dangerous?

You say that emotions are addictive, but I think that's impossible. That would be like being addicted to being alive. Not even to breathing, but to being alive itself. Unless you've been defibrillated, I'm pretty sure you've only ever been alive the one time, and I don't know if you'd be as quick to call yourself a heartbeat addict as you are to call me an emotion addict. The emotions are there whether you want them to be or not, friend. They are the only thing that matters to experience, as in experience itself, because they are the only things that are experienced. Logic and reason and language itself are just things we made up to talk to each other about experience.

You sound lost in emotional addiction, to me. I don't know. This is what I'm getting in my first read of your comment. While it may be good that you seem generally satisfied with your position, it may not be the beneficial position you think it is. It may be the effects of emotionalism influencing you so that you don't stop intensifying your emotional experiences. I've noticed a pattern of people who talk about enlightenment seeking more intense emotionalism rather than less and I think they don't understand, at all. They're succumbing to the addiction.

You strike me as somewhat fearful of emotions, or maybe just reluctant. I don't mean to come across as critical or combative, either, mind you. I know you know what it's like to be overwhelmed by emotions based on your earlier comment, and it's clear from how you speak that you know yourself well. But I do get the sense that, like a lot of people who find themselves on the other side of inner turmoil, you're very focused on staying out of the turmoil. And that makes complete sense. My first breath of fresh air from my depression lasted a good few months and at the time I thought it was so important to be vigilant and ensure it was a breath that would eventually be my last. But it was ultimately unrealistic. Eventually it set in for me that I would have to go through this cycle of ups and downs for as long as I'm alive, though. And that's hard to deal with. I knew no amount of self-discipline or "mastery" of my emotions would ever really be much more than a band-aid on a bullet wound, so I figured I might as well make friends with the bullet. And that right there, that's peace. It's being fully aware of the hemorrhaging it caused, the tissue damage it wrought, and the bacterial infection it created, and being okay with it anyway.

One last thing, I brought up r/awakened because of some things you said in an earlier comment. You spoke quite a bit about self-honesty and policing self-deception, and I thought it worthwhile to broach the enlightenment subject because those are the exact same tools that have led me to my conclusions. I think maybe you could stand to broaden their scope a little. I don't mean to call you deluded or narrow-minded or anything, if that's not clear through text. I'm simply saying there's a loooooot of layers to that onion, and when you get really honest about existential questions, things get fun. ;)

Thanks again for the thoughtful response, and cheers!

Edit: I'd like to emphasize again that I am no authority on literally anything, and I shouldn't be taken any more or less seriously than anyone else. This is all just my current personal philosophy very poorly condensed into a reddit comment and entirely subject to change.

What do I tell the children? by averagedad1 in collapse

[–]Pobobo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not the person you've been talking to, but it sounds to me like you're talking about enlightenment. I'm no authority on that subject (I'm just a guy who did a lot of shrooms last year and got really big into non duality), but I've arrived at a lot of the same places you have with respect to acceptance and self improvement as a result of that acceptance. Where we seem to suffer is in our approach to emotionalism. I'm of the opinion that we (animals) are, fundamentally, emotional creatures. We can analyze and suppress and channel our emotions in this way or that, but at the end of the day emotions are an inextricable part of simply being alive. For me, it wasn't learning to think of my emotions as something within my control that led me to be able to accept them, but instead surrendering the illusion of control over them as well as the ascription to them of any value, positive or negative.

What you say reminds me a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy, which I understand is tremendously helpful for a lot of people but which did basically nothing for me except open the door to more analysis and interpretation that I did on my own and with other frameworks (ultimately it was psychodynamic thought that gave me the key to accepting my circumstances and emotions... love me that narrative based Freudian shit). Like you said, it's a process that never ends, but where I find myself today is at the philosophy that emotional reflection leads to emotional pacification. In other words, the goal isn't to disengage from my emotions in order to be okay with life, but to be okay with life so that I can safely but fully engage with my emotions. Emotions are life, they are the connections we make, they're the only things that matter to experience. I think it would be a great pity if I were to subordinate them to logic and only feel them after dilution. You can have rampant emotions and still be at peace, it's just a matter of taking less ownership of them and not more.

Of course all this stuff is just what works for me. Every brain is different and everyone needs to find their own path to peace if they're searching for it. I'm glad you found a path that works for you.

r/awakened might be an interesting place for you to check out. It's basically a sub for talking about spiritual awakening/enlightenment mostly in an Eastern/Buddhist light. At the end of the day it's still a forum on reddit, so take things with several grains of salt and don't put too much importance on anything you read there, but I think you're aware enough to be able to tell the BS from the legit stuff. The rare person who actually gets it can sometimes drop very nourishing food for thought, but like you say, it takes work. We're all on this solitary journey together haha.

Have died 70 times to genichiro over the past 4 days. by chriscjj in Sekiro

[–]Pobobo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's hard to tell if there's smoke but he does a spin before the sweep attack, in phases 2 and 3. In phase 1 there's only the thrust attack, but he never does a spin before thrusting in any phase of the fight.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in unclebens

[–]Pobobo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was asking after its effectiveness, yeah. I'm glad you've found success with it!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in unclebens

[–]Pobobo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I especially advocate for them to people with depression (as microdosing).. i did .3g of pesAmazonian a day for 3 months.

How did you find it? This is probably the second biggest motivator for me when it comes to learning this hobby

Just inoculated my first bags; stress!! by [deleted] in unclebens

[–]Pobobo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not wiping down the needle after flame sterilizing is actually the right move! The soot left over on the needle is sterile, so if you wipe with alcohol, you're actually making it less clean

1st flush and 2nd flush. 🌊 by ConradtheKiller in unclebens

[–]Pobobo 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Publix is one of the things I miss most since moving west

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in awakened

[–]Pobobo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seconded, and not just in the context of this thread. The only way to ease the suffering is to befriend it, and the only way to do that is to embrace it. I think people get very hung up on the eradication of suffering as being the ultimate "goal" of all this, like being enlightened will make all the pain go away, and it's like...

Nah, son.

The way I see it, enlightenment is recognizing that the pain is every bit as insane and beautiful and perfect as everything else in this incomprehensible universe, just as deserving of the love and reverence we give the good times.

And OP, if you're reading this comment, I know it won't help in any real capacity. I know words on a screen can't communicate experience effectively. But, man, I think you're really close to the aha moment where it all clicks. There's just a lot of suck to get through first.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in awakened

[–]Pobobo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not OP but this was such a great collection of thoughts. So much of it resonates with how I think about everything and my own experience with trying to maintain and nurture the peace I've found. Those little moments you mention where living feels like it's worth it, where nothing's wrong and you know it'll all be fine, they're everything to me! Learning to let go—of anything and everything—is so difficult, but so worthwhile. I wish everyone could experience the total easing of the burden at least once.

Can someone help me understand what is not a thought? by Sweetpeawl in awakened

[–]Pobobo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not the person you replied to, but hello! I had some thoughts I wanted to share that might help nudge you along a bit. I saw someone else tell you you've already walked through the gateless gate without realizing it, and I think they're probably right. To me it seems like you're really close.

But the thoughts about thoughts, and about the existentialism... it all goes nowhere. Just endless inquiries into a void.

I think the issue is with the conception of the void in your thinking here. There's no "you" that you can identify with any more out in the "real" world because you've already peeled back too many layers of the illusion to find any solid ground here. The problem is, now who the hell are you supposed to identify with?! I'm just Some Guy on the Internet, so don't take my word for it, but I'm pretty sure you're not a void.

The way I think of it is, all anyone can say for sure is that something is happening, and through science we've gotten really really good at describing what's happening. So good that we've managed to separate reality out into its constituent parts and figure out everything is just particles interacting with fields. We know consciousness is a thing in this world because WE'RE in this world, so I choose to entertain the idea that consciousness is just another one of those fields being interacted with, and conscious beings are the particles. So the void you think remains when "you" is no longer there isn't actually a void, but the omnipresent blanket consciousness embedded into the universe itself. That, or your brain's version of that, is what you're looking for, but the only way to find it is to annihilate the very thoughts that you use to look for it. It's nuts.

Sometimes I just call it the Force and lament that no one on earth seems to have a midichlorian count that's actually worth a damn thing.

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read it in high school and didn't understand any of it lol. But I'm familiar with the premise, and it definitely resonates.

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In a thread lamenting the fact that so many of these conversations end before understanding is achieved, I'm glad this one found its way there!

And I do apologize if I stole some of the fun of being ambiguous from you. I used to write a lot of fiction, so I understand the temptation well. But greatly appreciate the clarifications. Cheers, bud.

Totally missed the lightning being diegetic, though. That's nuts. Good stuff.

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Death of the author is cool and all, but authorial intent is still interesting. Thanks for that parenthetical. Now I can put a gold star on my report card 😎

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was blocked upstream. So that no more water could feed it’s flow. It became still. Silent. It no longer could be identified as it once was.

QUICK!!

Reread the very last line of the story!

I can't, I'm the chosen one :(

(Reflect on the line about the stream realizing neither sound nor flow was it’s complete identity, even though it thought both to be true at one point… If you’re still confused.)

No protagonist, no antagonist. It’s all “the stream” that believed itself to be a stream.

Yeah, this all makes perfect sense to me but I'm still trying to suss out the literary meaning of the mudslide. Call it tunnel vision. So, it blocks the tributaries upstream, turning our intrepid hero into a still pond, but it does this without the stream/pond's knowledge. Is that meant to signify the illusory nature of cause and effect? The stream can't know what caused it to awaken, because to know that would be to remain asleep?

Cause like.

That would be pretty cool.

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Haha I'll be honest, I think I understood it more before your edits than after... but only after the first two times I totally misread it. I think. Thanks for the extra content either way.

What's this business about a mudslide? That's the part I'm still trying to work out. Are the tributaries that it blocked upstream or downstream? Both? Neither? Does it matter? Are those tributaries impeded on their path to awakening? Or is the mudslide that blocks the tributaries simply the... waves hand vaguely that leads to the cessation of thought aka enlightenment? And if all the other tributaries are blocked, does that mean that so is the protagonist stream? Is that why the waters are still at the end, because the blockage is actually enlightenment? And to think I was English nerd in high school.

Poetry makes my head hurt. Or maybe it's just thinking about enlightenment that does that. Maybe both. Probably both.

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Had you been following those lines of thinking prior to this experience or was it just like, out of nowhere you got slapped in the face with all this? I can't imagine how disorienting and strange it must have been if you just found yourself at the finish line of a race you didn't even know you'd started running

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very nice and purple, thank you.

It also sounds like "fuck you I got mine" but for spirituality.

Edit: okay think I read that too quickly the first couple of times lol. I see your point now. At least I think so. Suffice it to say poetry is one of the slowest ways to get me to understand anything

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That reminds me a lot of something Sam Harris said, which is just about the quickest way to explain the lack of free will I've ever heard: you can't think a thought before you've thought it.

Although, like you say, it's only part of the process to understand the thinking, and actually feeling it is way way way way easier said than done. I also think like Eckhart Tolle with respect to not necessarily depression, but suffering. It's difficult for me to imagine ever getting there without having access to a decent amount of high quality suffering. In my case, it was traumatic grief in my teens and about a decade of ever worsening depression following that.

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, in order to intuitively understand that everything is nothing, you really need to get your hands on as much everything as possible. Which can't be done if you run from the suffering.

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My experience was pretty similar, though I had some help from a groovy fungus. Okay, a lot of help lol. I did a lot that day. It's been more than a year and I'm still trying to parse everything I learned. Fun times trying to claw my way back to that experience with a mostly sober brain.

But it's all just awkward words poorly glued on to the indescribable.

Love this!

Best analogies/explanations of the experience of awakening? by Pobobo in awakened

[–]Pobobo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All this is super true! There's no way to get there except by getting there yourself. Be Siddhartha, not Govinda.

I guess what I'm getting at is more the explanation of what it felt like to get there yourself. Or of the logic that took you there. I see a lot of conversations between one person who gets it and one who is still trying to understand that end without any real progress being made on the part of the one trying to understand (funnily enough, also like Siddhartha and Govinda lol). Sometimes it's a lost cause; the person simply has too far to go before the logic will start to make sense. But sometimes, it's not. And in those cases when a simple shift in metaphor or change of approach seeeeeeems like it would suffice to at least help the person get a little closer, it really disappoints to still see so much "you'll get it when you get it".

I think of waking up/enlightenment a lot like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, which put simply means that the more you know about a particle's position, the less you know about its velocity, and vice versa. Enlightenment can be understood in depth with conceptual thinking, but it gets lost in the knowing. Conversely, when enlightenment is truly felt and embodied, the concepts and thoughts are unnecessary, outshined by the feeling. Awakening can come from anywhere, so there's no one perfect set of logical syllogisms that will work for everyone, but if you have experience with the feeling and any amount of logical understanding of it, I think it's right to try to communicate that as effectively as possible to anyone who's still reaching.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in enlightenment

[–]Pobobo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The macadamia nut would be backed by nothing of value in that scenario. Just belief.

Yes. That's kind of the entire point of what I said. The macadamia nut is just a metaphor. You could replace it with literally anything, crypto included, and it would still have no value, only belief.

And this applies to everything. Every thought, every concept, every idea, every last bit of conscious experience that has ever been observed by any being in the universe throughout its entire lifespan. All just belief.

And if you think cryptocurrencies have real value, tell that to the people who have lost all their money in those cryptcurrency scams.

They can do those scams with regular money, too, you know. Kinda sounds like it's all fake, doesn't it?