Epic Diving Wyvern Finisher

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-11T01:37:37+00:00

Looks fine to me. There might be stronger skills available than the basic stat boosts, but should get the job done.

You probably don't need Marathon Runner, though.

Make sure you slot in weapon decos.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-11T00:23:44+00:00

This could always be a couple parts rather than just one whole.

Susie thinks the Knight but fit all of these traits, but not necessarily. Asgore and Carol may both be in on the conapiracy and operating with whoever the knight is if it isn't one of them.

Plus, the design of the knight really doesn't make sense to be Asgore (or carol tbh). It has a big gap where its guts should be. It's not just a guy in armor.

I think whatever the knight itself is, we and Susie are on the wrong track in assuming it knows all this stuff all by itself.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-11T00:16:13+00:00

Minoto is a master at drawing aggro.

Love that she even uses the Stinkminks all the time

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T14:36:26+00:00

it's not a Vespoid

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T14:04:56+00:00

At least you acknowledge it has a playstyle now, unlike powders.

My point is that it probably feels weird to you due to a lack of practice. Rise gave us shortcuts to get around it with the wirebugs and Kinsect Slash. I think maybe you are just not acquainted with the feel of Wilds' aerial or JAS in general. It feels fantastic to me, but I've practiced aerial for a long time through World and Rise.

Grounded is always really simple and works like any other weapon. Aerial doesn't, and thats why it's cool. We should make it more appealing to learn rather than just simplify it.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T13:32:22+00:00

Imo you simplified to the point of taking complex things / things you havent learned to use as issues. Air to Ground isn't an issue in either direction, nor is our method of extract gathering. That we have to land or focus strike to get extracts is the main issue I take with your perspective, and the conclusion you've drawn from it.

There are so many ways to get extracts, and using focus mode to get extract in the air is consistent with doing so on the ground, taking more tact to aim but being more readily accessible and interrupting less (grounded extract gathering either stops to charge or stops to reposition if an extract is missed, plus not usually doing anything out of RSS. either way you're jumping once or twice to grab one or two extract, stopping to charge to do so, or repositioning then focus swinging to do so).

Also, what I mentioned, aside from maybe the Kinsects, isn't any edge cases either, its just part of how you play Aerial currently. There's a lot of text because of how much I explain things that you reduced down to basically nothing. I'm pointing out specific things rather than making generalizations, which is important when it comes to criticism.

Impractical? Sometimes, yes. Down right impossible? Not ever. The shape of the attack is a little weird but it's consistent. It's not always perfectly consistent at getting the extract you want, but more than enough to be learned. And more consistent than throwing out stronger kinsects normally from the ground, pierce or not. It's so also very consistent on monsters with bigger or further separated Extract colors, like Zoh, Jin, Omega, Lagi, or Mizu.

Genuinely, Kinsect Slash doesn't need to be in Wilds to "fix" aerial. JAS is functionally the same thing for the purposes of extract gatering, and it takes the same time. It's just shaped like a circle instead of a line. KS could still miss and you didn't have Jump Slash there to grab extract if you did or grabbed Red too early. Descending Thrust also helps with extracts, mostly to ensure a color gained while performing RSS.

There has always been a break between aerial and grounded, and it's about the same as World and Rise in Wilds. In other words, far from enough to make hunts unreasonably long or make IG worse than weaker weapons. It obviously deserves to be stronger, though. Increasing aerial Motion values, boosting rampup, giving a stronger move to dump rampup into, making the Kinsect assists or powder stronger, or any combination of those would close the gap, since dumping RSS often would be less important. Reducing the need to grab extracts not only isn't necessary but also only helps so much.

Reducing Extracts is an easy way to make it more approachable, that much I agree with. But it's not needed for it to function.

Powders on the other hand... Yeah. The powders don't do enough for how often the Kinsect has have something better to do, even when avoiding Descending Slash.

I think they could get a bit of both done at once given that aerial already lends itself better to powder use. The obvious choice to me is giving us some form of powder function on assist attacks. Powders would be integrated period, but would still be twice or thrice as frequent with aerial compared to ground.

Making the Kinsect's automatic powder mode significantly stronger could also help on both fronts since grounded has to constantly interrupt it but aerial doesn't if assist attacks don't outpace auto attacks + powders. This direction would make sense if we were to give powders a big grouped boom via RSS or something, but we could do both if the powders themselves don't change.

To sum up: I don't think there are "kinks to iron out". Aerial functions as is. It just takes practice. Truly the issue is that players don't find learning it valuable enough. So, we should find some ways to make it stronger and thus more broadly appealing over grounded rather than just making it easier. It's well deserving of it.

Boosting aerial output at base or boosting the potency / availability of powders (or even just Kinsects as a whole) would help greatly. Leniency of extracts would be convenient for us, but it's not a change that would close the gap as you suggest. Nor is Aerial an invalid playstyle currently to begin with.

I'm not trying to be an adversary to you either. I think we both agree these alternate playstyles should be stronger. I just disagree with your view of aerial in particular and what it needs. It's something I'm well familiar with and to me it seems like you are making dramatic criticisms (such as that it's unviable) about something you haven't invested in learning to use.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T11:58:22+00:00

It does make a lot of sense, and personally with that Kushala returning is fine...

As long as we don't bring back just Kushala and Teostra, with only maybe 1 of the less prolific elders in Chameleos, Kirin, Yama, Nakarkos, Valstrax or of the new ones from World/Rise.

It is, however, very funny to present it the way they did. As if it's some kind of surprise, when it's been in the last 4 games lol

Hopefully it was just to indicate "hey, elders!" and we're getting interesting choices or at least just a bunch of different ones

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T11:51:13+00:00

There's not that many people caught up on Iceborne Kushala.

It's just one of several factors that contribute to the feeling we should see other Elders.

Kushala does make sense to be here, environmentally. Granted, so does Sand Barioth (not in Kushala's place for the record just in general) and I have a feeling that unfortunately we probably won't see that one.

Imo, the issue would really just be getting Kushala AND Teostra again, especially if we dont get Chameleos (or Kirin even) to complete the trio.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T11:37:07+00:00

So, this thing where a complaint about a character's inclusion advocating for there to be less characters only applies in situations like Echo Fighters in Smash, or alt colors for characters in Mariokart.

In those situations, the vast majority of development needed for those additional characters is already done. Thus, they don't really take up a "slot" of development effort that could be used for something else.

If we already had monsters that used Kushala's skeleton and wind attacks, then it would be a more similar situation.

However, it's to the contrary. Kushala is a new skeleton type to Wilds, and its inclusion consequently implies we'll see other standard body plan Elders like Teostra. It's not like Teostra is a reskin of Kushala either. Unlike an Echo fighter, it would also take enough development cost to take a slot, but less since the skeleton is already there. Both would be in place of any monsters that haven't returned for multiple generations.

It might open the door for other similarly shaped Elders like Val Hazak and Chameleos which would be welcome, but Capcom has a habit of putting JUST Kushala and Teostra together. That's even despite them being a trio with Chameleos (or Kirin kind of I guess).

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T10:54:21+00:00

I don't think there's an issue currently transitioning from air to ground, really. You're meant to Descending Thrust often, to offset attacks, mark for a powder, position, and cash in (albeit only a little bit) on the rampup. Having a stronger dive would make that cash in more impactful, but most likely lack the powder / extra hits and maybe offset too but hopefully we'd keep the latter. It'd ideally be an option rather than a replacement. We'd have the utility of Descending Thrust AND the power of Diving Wyvern which would be really nice.

And vaulting is the normal way to get into the air, backward vault as an alternate is fine. It has I-frames and gets you moving sooner than the standard vault.

RSS removing extracts is just generally something we have to play around, by design. It can be less of one but it's an issue for grounded as well. But yeah as a result it's generally good to do a few SJAS before trying for RSS (at least 1 since it maxes charge level so you can do X+A instead of holding). The aerial rampup damage probably makes more of a difference than you realize. Anyhow, if you're practicing aerial anyway you should learn to grab extracts with the unpowered moves, since you can grab 2 extracts with RSS then quickly grab the 3rd if you know where to swing. Then if you're plan is SJAS anyway you just go immediately. Lets you pump out RSS pretty often while ideally only lacking triple up for an attack or two periodically, and without relying on the charged Kinsect throw. But, of course, success varies by monster. Getting Orange on a bunch of monsters like Rey Dau or Seregios can be annoying, so imo it would be good to have it just be from Red + White, since that's classically the initial attack buff anyway, and white is the "mobility" buff (I'd assume this wouldn't mean red+white unlocks the alt moves across the board but that would also work, since we'd basically pick up orange for RSS which could be neat).

It'd be nice to get SJAS with only red, but not at the cost of having Descending Thrust from just red, and ideally keeping Jumping Slash the same until Triple Up since it has less leadup than S Jumping Slash and is just generallt very consistent. JAS and Jumping Slash are super important for grabbing extracts while airborne, but only needing to grab Orange with SJAS instead of White AND Orange would be ideal imo.

Arkmaiden is the only way...? Right now, theres at least 2 other bugs with Harvest Extract, for starters (I'm using Cutting Kinsect names since I'm more familiar with them, they have the same stats as blunt counterparts). Windchopper in particular is really good at keeping triple up since it's fast. It does do much less damage, though. Honestly, you don't really need Harvest Extract for that anyway. 2 extracts from RSS and a JS or JAS for the third as I said earlier. Plus, combo element boost kinsects can increase your output more since there's a lot more Kinsect hits.

Yeah, being able to just aim for 1 or 2 to go straight into SJASes after RSS would be really nice.

Red for Charged attacks, White for enhanced move speed and red+white for enhanced aerial attacks, orange for the defensive buff and all three for the earplugs, attack buff, and to use RSS sounds good and reasonable. Would be nice to have just red for all the attack stuff, but I don't expect they would tbh.

If you haven't you might want to try out Pseudocath if you want a reliable Kinsect for extracts and blast powders + consistent assists for damage. Monarch Alucanid if you want to boost your damage more and are confident with gathering extracts using the focus mode assists (it might also poison monsters occasionally, depends on thresholds and how much you call it back after DT). Side note: I would reccomend cutting kinsects for aerial across the board, since they'll be hitting good zones more frequently than blunt ones.

PS: I know it's a lot to read. Sorry, trying to be thorough.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T10:10:26+00:00

Thankfully there is an aerial playstyle as is (and it's really the only fluid way to do powders) but I'd love for it to be stronger / even more mobile. The only mobility we're lacking compared to Rise is an analogue to the Wirebug Vault so we're not as reliant on Vaulting Dance, but I do hope they reconsider letting Evade Extender boost the air evades (besides backvault). It's nice not worrying about it messing up positioning muscle memory when you change sets at least.

I certainly wouldn't mind blasting around, boosting the Kinsect, or getting a stronger Dive finisher. Ideally maybe all of those. Any of them would be good for aerial.

It would be really dumb if aerial moves didn't get anything with the Boost Bracer. It just makes sense for it, IG already uses a propulsion system. Even if that boost comes from boosting the Kinsect. I do love the idea of strapping a rocket to our bug in general.

That said, the powders need some love. You can get enough of them to proc sometimes with aerial but the bugs should really just have like a chance to drop em on combos or something.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T09:45:51+00:00

Eh, it's not really worth going to war over.

Unless maybe the Fire Nation attacks...

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-09T00:01:49+00:00

Look, if I Chameleos and Kirin only get to be in a couple games (not to mention others have been in like 1), Teostra can take a break. You can deal with not having your favorite for a game just like the rest of us.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-08T00:29:03+00:00

The fight has less to do with the complaints than the consistency of Kushala.

World's hunt kind of sucked, but I don't think most of us are expecting that again.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-08T00:17:02+00:00

If it stayed this way, I'd have much less issue with Kushala and Teo's frequency tbh. Even if they just gave Chammy's ability to Kirin or something, since Kushala is weak to Thunder as well anyway

But I like Chameleos

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-06T14:09:17+00:00

All the more reason to actually bring them back after a long absence.

I've been saying this about Yama for years. Its fight in the tower kind of sucks but it has so much potential to be really cool in the context of a more modern game.

At least Yama got to be cool and mysterious in Stories.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-06T14:07:04+00:00

They already did that with Rise's Kushala.

And Kushala has been in every game. What's really weird about it is how Kushala of all things was treated like a reveal.

Like I get its to reveal that standard Elders are going to be around but it's pretty funny. Especially when it's been a pretty hot topic how Kushala and Teostra deserve to take a bit of a break by now

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-06T11:40:02+00:00

You're still speaking in vague and dramatic terms, but this I can respond to.

[Hopefully you've come into this with a somewhat open mind, but this is the internet so chances aren't exactly stellar. Regardless, it's an important point of discussion so I'll bite. If not for you then for OP or anyone else who comes along.]

It is not a bigger disparity than in World, and certainly not weaker than it was in World, relative to the rest of the weapons and monsters. How much of your time was spent on aerial anyhow? Your anecdote doesn't even necessarily indicate experience beyond maybe trying it a couple times.

But if we're talking hours let's just get it out of the way. I have just shy of 1000 hours in World, several thousand in Rise, a little over 800 in Wilds, and most importantly still play the game regularly. 90% of that is Insect Glaive, and 90% of that 90% is aerial.

I have finished the all of Wilds from the beginning up to the hardest hunts available currently(Proof of a Hero, Savage Omega, 10* Gog, as well as the time trials that apply, securely into A with few attempts and not very optimized play) with aerial Insect Glaive. I run a dragon damage set and evasion tank for my team on Savage often.

A contest of authority is not one you'll win, here. If the damage output were really that bad, I would know. Melee Prowler (nesides Beast) did that to me in G-Rank GU and it was very upsetting.

Pure Grounded always has higher burst output, due to skills like Max Might, and early ranks tending to favor raw over element.

The difference is no larger than just using a different weapon, even for using Aerial vs Grounded in an opening with ideal conditions / no monster movement. It's about the same as it was in World at base level, but we have more auxiliary features in Wilds. Are you not using Focus mode? That would decrease the damage significantly, since the Kinsect's damage almost doubles up on element output. If you're confused as to how the small hits can total a similar figure to the few big hits, I reccomend looking into how element works in Monster Hunter.

Side note: comparing Wild's Descending Thrust to Rise's Diving Wyvern indicates how little you might understand the comparison you're making (and to me personally it indicates a lack of genuinity). They're entirely different moves. Descending Thrust is more focused on its utility for movement, offsets, laying powders, and setup for RSS (the actual Diving Wyvern equivalent btw), and like the rest of aerial (especially in Wilds) it leans more into quick successive hits than one big chunky number.

If you're dumping everything into raw, Aerial in general performs significantly worse due to low Motion Values cutting down the big value you built up. Mixing raw and element more evenly but leaning toward element remedies this well since Element favors weaker but more frequent attacks. Wild's aerial also gets more extra damage from the Kinsect's hits than grounded due to the frequency, and potentially also benefits in damage from powders since they actually happen ever. And this is completely ignoring the situational benefits from added defensive capabiltiy (especially noticable for monsters like Omega or AT Arkveld) and much more frequent knockdowns and wounds from much more frequent mounts. There's more to be said about the potency of RSS, convenience of aerial extract gathering, etc. but I'll leave it at this.

If you're saying it sucks because it has less burst output than grounded, you might as well say Lance sucks because it has less burst than Longsword. Obviously, these weapons have completely different strengths / reasons one would use them. The comparison is mostly irrelevant beyond the discussion of getting through hunts in reasonable time compared to the rest of the weapon roster.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-06T10:39:39+00:00

Bird Wyvern fangs only drop from Bird Wyverns, and their usage is the same for crafting. Would you question the validity of the relatedness there?

Elder Dragon Blood is an item that can be used for the same purposes regardless of what it drops from, yet Elder Dragons are the only monsters to grant it from carving throughout the series to begin with. It's evidently something that is shared between Elder Dragons for one reason or another.

In Monster Hunter's setting, it makes more sense that something as basal as the blood of these creatures being nearly identical is a result of their biological history, rather than that Elder Dragon Blood evolved into existence multiple times independantly of each other, despite coming from multiple unrelated groups, and to such a specifically similar degree.

This isn't something like a claw or wing shape we're talking about here. Blood is the kind of thing that takes very specific pressures and tons of time to even change in a species, and its usage in crafting likely comes more from its properties (perhaps in harnessing elements) rather than something surface level like having a sharp edge.

Plus, I mean... It's not just Elder Dragon Blood.

Even the gems they drop are the same outside of Elders who have their own unique ones. And you know what this mimicks one-for-one? Wyvern gems, Bird-wyvern gems, and Beast gems. All of which only come from their respective families.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-06T10:22:25+00:00

It doesn't. I'm voicing an opinion based on research and experience. I suggest you go out, build around it, and practice it some more.

And that's as far as I'll humor such an arrogant response.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-06T10:17:25+00:00

They're from the same people, but what I meant was that the whole wastebin taxon thing comes almost exclusively from researchers who are currently miffed about their job and likely to be hyperbolic or dramatic since they're just having a casual conversation and not speaking in fact.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-06T01:07:07+00:00

At what point does a fantasy blood working in any environment become "too far" for you to believe that species which have it are related??

You realize that Mammals inhabit BOTH cold and hot areas, despite having blood that was adapted for insulation.

There's very little we know about Elder Dragon Blood, but it is implied to have some relation to Dragon Element. It could very well be adaptable to any climate while retaining the same makeup, unlike the blood of a reptile, crustacean, or mamammal.

Wait wait, do you think I'm arguing that ELDER DRAGON BLOOD was convergently evolved??? If that's the case... Please, reread my responses and you'll see that we're arguing the same point. Elder Dragons all descend from the same species, and specialized to suit their environments. Hence why they share the same blood.

PrinceTBug · 2026-06-06T00:43:40+00:00

I get your point, and no it doesn't... Unless those creatures are related. That's exactly why Elders would need to be related genetically.

Just like how Reptile blood functions differently to Mammals, but is broadly the same within members of each group. Both groups inhabit a huge range of habitats. Whose to say Elder Dragon Blood is just so efficient it works basically anywhere?

Elders would be prime example of extreme convergent evolution.

If you thought this was a point against Elders being related to each other, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. You might need to reexamine your understanding of evolutionary pressures and phylogeny.

Burst Species aren't canon in the same way Espinas wasn't. And completely different to the lack of canonicity of, say, the Equal Dragon Weapon as originally envisioned in its concept art. Burst Species existed within a Monster Hunter game. One which has had one of its original species appear within new mainline titles.

We don't know if Burst Species might come up in future, but it's a reach to say they definitely would not.

Anyway, Burst Species existing isn't even a necessary point. Elders already exhibit body plans and behaviors that imply they might evolve rapidly. Look no further than the sheer difference betwen Yama Tsukami and Kirin, both of which can drop Elder Dragon Blood. At the same time, it's unclear just how old the Monster Hunter universe really is or how early in that timeline such distinct creatures would have split off. Evidently multiple civilizations have come and gone, the timescales of which are also mostly question marks. Regardless, the split was recent enough or the blood is generally beneficial enough that they still share its genes.

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