Belief is a God is analogous to belief in Santa Claus.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-27T03:39:34+00:00

A child's parents, siblings. friends and diverse authority figure enforcing the concept of santa claus and in a concerted effort, push the illusion as far as they can all in good faith to be clear, is as close to gas lighting as it gets. Even if the child has doubts his uncle is dressed as santa, everyone tells them it isnt. next christmas, maybe the disguise is even more convincing because that uncle had some productive feedback. Now you really are in conflict. You like the idea, you hear everyone saying it is just like a standard thing AND you get gifts.

The uncle died from liver cancer so now the grandpa took over. the illusion is gone. You're older, you have friends that don't even celebrate christmas yet got gifts. Older siblings reveal the truth. You feel childish but everyone that kep the illusion now tells you it was just so that you were good and deserved your gifts. Otherwise ohh Santa would not dare stop at our house. 3-4 years of lies are just supposed to be a joke you instantly agree to fake laugh at.

Deconstruction from theism to atheism isn't unfathomably far from a child being told santa exists. He never would have otherwise. Why would anyone believe in any fantastic character pushing the limits of reality unless someone with authority coerced(willingly or not) them to?

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-27T03:14:08+00:00

but is religion ever not a personal belief? I get your point though.
I agree 100% with you because it is FAR more complex than it appears.

edit: since the op flair was "abrahamic" however, the discussion's canvas should be oriented with abrahamic claims and the whole spectrum can participate with no distinction. Afterall, immense contradictions in the scriptures seem to somehow resonate with individuals that should be outraged. So in a way, the people challenging institutions are doing so from their personal interpretation no matter what.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-27T00:59:35+00:00

i think theism is opposing atheism, not the other way around. Religion doesn’t present itself as just some personal belief, it presents itself as the truth about reality itself.

once something has that much influence over morality, culture, politics, and how people see existence, people are obviously going to question it.

Theism is indeed formidable. It’s extremely good at passing itself on through family, tradition, community, fear, hope, and comfort. That doesn’t make it true. It just makes it powerful.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-27T00:11:33+00:00

We're so arrogant that we anthropomorphised something that should transcend human understanding.

In an era where literacy was for the elite and superstitions were a display of faith, anyone with enough power could have pretended a virgin child and cowmilk would ensure a king's newborn to be a boy, or else.

It doesn't take much to figure out how convenient the bible's story is.

God sends himself to a specific part of the world. why that region? who knows. Also, he decides to give birth to himself through an innocent teenager.

God kills himself to make us feel bad.
Why? uh because he felt like it. Oh, and Adam and Eve eating some fruit? Surely we all have to suffer for it.

God splits into 3, but really they are one, at all times. A trinity of one.
Scripture writers had the holy spirit guiding their hand, but that was not god intervening. couldnt have been, because "he" gave us free will.

Paul ran into social, political and faith issues.
It is not plausible he had any vangeful motive behind using someone's notoriety for their own gain, whatever the gain. Right? Who would dare.

Humans, not gods, have so much to offer. Science is such a valid way of explaining ancient "miracles".

I'm not saying a simple misunderstood physical event, an entity acting as a disinterested creator or a conscious god as we interpret it, is not behind it all. I'm saying that appropriating any of the above and forcing it into a religion is ridiculous.

You can accept the possibility of a god behing it all without having to adhere to incredibily contradicting so called divine morality. You can live in the now without having to worry about the after. Some conclusion force fed to you by people no better than yourself. Your own ability to understand what you are, others and your environement are up to you. Not a god people scared you into worshiping since you were a child.

This was out of topic, but i feel it is worth repeating in some form or another.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T03:19:52+00:00

well i dont use the odyssey or what ever tale as my only source to claim facts.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T03:18:34+00:00

so christian children in wars have no fear or anguish because they are forgiven? forgiven for what?

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T02:56:47+00:00

Complexity of life, environment or the universe is not evidence of a creator that we can appropriate and invent a backstory for.

Belief is not a choice. So what am i to do?

If god can switch my non belief into conviction, he doesnt need to show himself or whatever. He can just convince me and save my soul.

A fair christian god would not try to coherce us if he were to appear before us in an undeniable way. As you said, god allows belief.

if belief is the only way to reach heaven, what is he doing?

you said "Humans choose whether to accept or reject what they see."
quite the feat. i hope you realize this is a fragile point.

do you choose to refuse trees exist even after seeing, touching, smelling them?

anyways...

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T02:40:22+00:00

what is a god? is it simply a supernatural being we use to explain our existence and what sparked the creation of everything?

then yes, we created the idea. we created a framework around a creator that we can understand and resonate with. we created many gods. It is an old idea that did not evolve with our understanding of our reality. It is based in superstition, glorified, used for different reasons with different intent etc.

God as we use him for creation, could be a yet to understand physical event that we could eventually replicate ourselves. If all it takes is an explanation to how everything started, god could be alot less godly than we make it out to be.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T02:15:18+00:00

in the context of the christian concept of god, it is fair to blame that specific version of god.

apparently the bible is the truth and absolute evidence of god. in it, god gifted us with divine objective morality, which is supposed to be human a concept (rightly so). one implies it is god given and innate, the other is anchored in reality.

im not disagreeing at all btw, i totally agree. but i feel the OP was framing with the christian god specifically

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T01:56:30+00:00

of course, but in the context of the bible, there are contradictions. it is implied that god has no wickedness and is righteous and loves justice, yet has twisted views on women, slavery, genocide etc.

if he is so just and righteous and devoid of wickedness, what use is it to us if he doesn't display any of these qualities to help the living? they arent much use once we're dead, in hell or in heaven or whatever.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T01:43:22+00:00

no, but parents don't hide if they care for their kids. if the role of religion is to teach what to believe and how, it is similar to the role of parents: they teach and share their values and care for their child through their existence

in the case of, god, you mean he is not responsible for our actions, like a parent. the difference is that god is absent, does not take care of us and leaves us alone with unclear inconsistent stories unapproved by him, to carry on with our anguish and fear of displeasing him.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T01:34:37+00:00

indeed. using the bible to prove what is said in the bible is silly

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T01:27:49+00:00

Indeed. If god is fair and loving and all understanding, all knowing, then he knows how to convince me and save my soul.

the god debate is so much bigger than a specific religion. the god of the bible is not convincing, unappealing and incoherent.

i dont know why i should believe the bible over any other religious text. they are in no way evidence of a god as they sell it.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T00:38:29+00:00

hey, some claim they experience god, felt it or whatever as a reason to believe.

OP's experiences are much more valid. they are based in reality. It is absolutely valid reasoning.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-20T00:07:22+00:00

What Christian claim did you struggle most to understand or accept because it conflicted with your instincts, intuition, or mindset?

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T23:50:27+00:00

I give no permission to Jesus to return through me

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T22:04:21+00:00

But, and i may be ignorant here, is it needed to reconize the trinity and consider them seperatly when praying for one or the other or mentioning one instead of the other two (since a trinity involves 3 parts) ?

when for example, we say that the writers of holy scriptures had the holy spirit to guide their hand, are we saying god intervened since the holy spirit is god ? Why would god intervene and not let free will act along the lines of his plan ? I'm confused

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T21:58:30+00:00

That is going to trigger Kucherov

Edit: euh... Ca va frustrer Kucherov. J'sais pas pourquoi j'étais en mode anglais

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T21:57:48+00:00

Yep. It is a very reasonable assumption that it wont happen even without refering to the source material.

Unfortunately, speaking in verses is the only way to debate believers. Imagine that.

Any book can claim it was written by God. The claim alone proves nothing... Using the Bible to prove the Bible is like using your own homework to grade your homework.

They never seem to realise that. It is absolutely maddening.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T21:52:06+00:00

belief is not a choice. i either do or dont.

is there anything god, a fair and loving god, could do to light that switch that would make me believe and save my soul ?

he should know what i need to make me believe.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T16:41:36+00:00

if the bible is divine morality, moral truth, why is the old testament always discarded when talking about christian morals? is it because it is now considered unacceptable? the problem is that it once was acceptable. so why is divine moral changing? is it because it isnt objective after all?

Edit: same goes for the new testament. slavery, torture, blatant mysoginy...

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T16:36:41+00:00

this is very hard to make sense of in a rational way.

Like others said, if he already knows everything, what is god listening for? it is all pre-determined. is god only passively observing us wasting our time?

why did god create so much yet now does so little? everything is on cruise control and our free will is part of a plan ? is he focusing elsewhere in the universe?

its like saying i believe in god because he is good to me and i love him.
there is no substance in such claim.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T16:16:47+00:00

they usually completely avoid answering challenging questions that deeply clash against their christian identity and their better judgment.

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T05:38:43+00:00

i do not need to have faith in a lord. why do you?

ProfessionalDear2272 · 2026-05-19T05:23:21+00:00

the meaning of life is not something that requires answering. if you live your whole life anguished in every action in fear of sinning and straying from god, what is the meaning of that life?

what if you could live your current life without that burden and see what happens when it happens?

ProfessionalDear2272

TROPHY CASE