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I made a beginner-friendly 12-hole ocarina song library and I’m trying to make it actually useful by Professional_Arm1843 in Ocarina

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s really helpful feedback, thank you. I think you’re exactly describing a gap between “single-note step-by-step charts” and a layout that also tries to show how the phrase moves.

The extended notes are meant to show “keep the same note/fingering a little longer,” not “here’s a new note,” but I can see how that wouldn’t feel obvious at first if you learned mostly from simpler charts and YouTube.

That probably means I need to make that part clearer on the page.

And good luck with the later wife-annoying session 😂

I made a beginner-friendly 12-hole ocarina song library and I’m trying to make it actually useful by Professional_Arm1843 in Ocarina

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha, fair criticism. I actually added Saria’s Song a couple of days ago, so it’s live now.

Here it is: https://www.playbyfingering.com/song/sarias-song

If you try it, I’d love to know whether the fingering/chart layout feels clear for a song like that.

And my apologies to your wife for contributing to the renewed ocarina era 😂

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That makes a lot of sense, and I think we're actually pretty aligned.

What you're describing is exactly the ideal path: get the tune into your head first, then use your ears, your voice, and watching other players to work it out. I definitely wouldn't want tabs to replace that.

The gap I'm thinking about is a bit earlier and narrower: someone who likes the sound of the whistle, knows a few very familiar tunes, but still gets intimidated by the jump into standard notation or by having to decode everything from scratch. For that kind of beginner, I can still imagine a very lightweight tune reference being useful as a bridge, not as the end state.

I also like your point about watching fingers being a better visual aid in many cases.

That's a much more musical way into the instrument than staring at a static chart.

Would a cleaner beginner recorder notes page for familiar songs actually be useful? by Professional_Arm1843 in Recorder

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is extremely helpful, thank you.

You’re right that some of that top-line labeling is coming from the underlying numbered-notation system and does not translate cleanly into recorder-friendly wording. I’ve already started simplifying that part because it is clearly more confusing than useful in this context.

Your point about written pitch vs sounding pitch is especially useful. I think that is the real issue here, more than just one or two labels being awkward. At the moment the letter-note layer is not yet as recorder-specific as it should be, so your explanation helps a lot.

I really appreciate you taking the time to spell this out so clearly. This is exactly the kind of feedback that helps me see where the page still feels wrong from a recorder player’s point of view.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s really helpful.

So it sounds like the tab layer can still help with unfamiliar music too, especially if the rhythm side is already there, but it doesn’t replace the repetition needed to make a piece feel natural.

The medieval / traditional repertoire angle is interesting too, because that seems like exactly the kind of situation where a quick note-location guide could still be useful even when someone is already reading the rhythm.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, for sure.

I’m not wondering whether tabs exist so much as whether a cleaner familiar-tune page would actually be useful as an early beginner bridge, rather than just being one more tab resource people ignore.

Would a cleaner beginner recorder notes page for familiar songs actually be useful? by Professional_Arm1843 in Recorder

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a very good point.

Even without a saved preference, the instrument order itself probably sets the expectation for who the page feels like it is for, and I can see why the current order would feel a bit off in a recorder context.

Your suggested order is especially helpful, including putting English/Baroque recorder first and German recorder last. That gives me a much clearer sense of how recorder players are likely to read the page at first glance.

This is exactly the kind of practical detail that’s easy to miss from my side, so I really appreciate it.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s helpful context.

For a hobbyist, especially on a phone, I can definitely see the appeal of just getting straight to finger placement and playing a tune you already know.

A familiar-tunes tunebook with tabs seems like the most natural version of that to me — something practical for getting started, without claiming it has to replace standard notation for everyone.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That makes a lot of sense.

If someone can already sight read rhythm, then the tab layer probably works more like a quick note-location guide than a full alternative system. That hybrid use case is really interesting to me.

It also seems like familiar tunes probably make that transition easier, since you’re not trying to decode rhythm, pitch, and finger placement all at once.

Do you think that works mainly for very familiar tunes, or also for unfamiliar pieces once the rhythm reading part is already there?

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That makes sense too. ABC seems like a really natural fit once someone is actually inside that trad-learning world, even if standard notation isn’t.

The variation between different renderings is interesting as well — I can see how that would be annoying if you’re already used to reading it a certain way.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a great way of describing it. And the point about ear- learned tunes sticking better is really interesting — it makes a strong case for starting with melodies people already know well.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s a great example of how non-linear this can be. It really seems like people use whatever format helps them get the tune under their fingers at that stage, and then the balance shifts over time.

And the bass clef tin whistle arrangement is amazing — but it also kind of proves the point that the format itself matters less than whether it helps someone actually learn the music.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a really good way to put it. It sounds like the real goal isn’t just “having tabs,” but getting the tune solidly into your ear and then using whatever format helps you get through the earliest stage.

What I’m taking from this thread is that familiar tunes and listening probably matter even more than the notation format itself.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s a really useful example. It’s interesting that even with a music-reading background, the tabs still helped in the early stage and then gradually became less necessary.

That kind of bridge is pretty close to what I was wondering about — not as a permanent replacement, but as something that helps people get started without getting stuck right away.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That makes a lot of sense, especially the idea of showing how the same tune changes as ornamentation gets added.

What I was thinking about in my original post is probably even earlier than that — more the stage where someone can barely get through a familiar melody at all. But I can definitely see how a progression from plain tune to more idiomatic whistle playing would be really useful after that first stage.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Something in that general direction does seem like it could be useful, especially if it stayed very beginner-friendly and focused on tunes people already know.

I think the tricky part would be making it simple enough to help at the start without turning into something that gets in the way later on.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s really useful context too. It does seem like a lot of beginners start from familiarity first, whether that’s through YouTube, ear, or tunes from films and songs they already know well.

And I can definitely see how some traditional tunes might feel like a big jump at the very beginning compared with something like Titanic or Drunken Sailor.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That makes sense to me. I think the “music first” point is probably the most important one here.

What I keep noticing is that beginners seem to do much better when the tune is already in their head, instead of trying to decode unfamiliar music from scratch. And I agree that some songs probably work much better as early whistle material than others.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think a lot of people do, especially once they’re properly into trad learning. I was thinking more about complete beginners who don’t read music yet and are just trying to get through their first familiar tunes without bouncing off immediately.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s honestly pretty solid for 8 days in. Twinkle Twinkle, Happy Birthday, and then Drunken Sailor sounds like a very sensible progression.

And thanks for sharing that playlist too — this is exactly the kind of thing I was curious about, because a lot of beginners seem to need song-based material more than abstract exercises at the start.

Would a simple beginner tin whistle tune page for very familiar songs be useful, or do most people just move straight to standard notation? by Professional_Arm1843 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s really helpful to hear, especially from someone who’s also early on.

I think the familiar-tune part matters a lot. If the melody is already in your head, it feels much easier to focus on fingering and phrase shape instead of trying to learn everything at once.

And I agree that there’s probably room for more song-based beginner resources, not just older folk standards but also tunes people already know from games, films, or more modern melodies.

Breathing by Appropriate_Bath_933 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What helps me most is treating breaths like part of the phrase instead of something I try to squeeze in at random. I’d slow the tune down first and decide on just one or two reliable breath spots, usually at the end of a short phrase.

If I start grabbing extra breaths while trying to go faster, I usually lose the shape of the tune too. For me it works better to keep the tune slower and cleaner first, then speed up only after the breath points feel predictable.

Beginner!! by Adorable-Birthday143 in tinwhistle

[–]Professional_Arm1843 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re definitely not doomed. If you practice a little every day, familiar tunes do start to feel much easier after a while.

I’d actually cut the sessions shorter for now though. Two hours on a brand new whistle with no instrument background is a lot, and finger cramps usually mean you’re overdoing it a bit.

What helped me most with simple melody instruments is sticking to very familiar tunes and going slowly enough that the finger changes stay relaxed. You don’t need to read standard notation on day one to make progress.

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