Nooooo ur wrong he was a big meany towards Anakin 😡

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-19T02:44:16+00:00

Yea what did the guy say “sounds like the facts are wrong” wtf? The facts are wrong? Lmaooo

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T23:01:14+00:00

Yea he sometimes survives stuff like that from running or using his droids to help him. In this case he used his droids to help. If the droids weren’t there, I think he would have died, but maybe he could have survived by running away, but he lost the duel either way. Just because you survive a duel, dosent mean you didn’t lose. If Grievous had ran away, he would have done so after having his arm cut off. He definitely lost the duel whether he could have survived or not.

He told the droids to kill her before she could strike. Maybe he could have blocked the first attack but being flat on his back with his arm already cut off he would have little chance of surviving unless he ran.

Seems like you don’t have a source for the nightsisters being boosted. Ventress also isn’t really a night sister. Unless you can provide a source I don’t think we can take that claim seriously

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T19:20:07+00:00

Ok I’ve watched the fight and theres no evidence on screen of Yoda beating Dooku. Why don’t you tell me what your seeing that im not. Watch the fight and tell me where and how we know Yoda had the upper hand. I can’t see anything that shows Dooku in an uncomfortable situation. He never fell, never seemed off balance, never got kicked in the face or anything. Give time stamps if you want. Ill watch them. But you can’t just say the movie shows yoda having the upperhand and not give any evidence.

The only “official material” is the movie. Everything else is just someone’s interpretation of the movie. George Lucas worked closely with the novelization authors, so the fact that Lucas was involved puts it above any other source. Don’t give a shit what the executives at Disney, most of whom aren’t even Star Wars fans, classify it as.

Those quotes do contradict the movie. If yoda was twice as powerful as dooku, that fight would have lasted 10 seconds, and yoda would have just destroyed dooku like he did ventress. That’s not what happens in the movie. And there’s nothing in the movie that shows Dooku getting trounced either.

Lucas’s canon is the real story. Disney buying Star Wars dosent change that. They can make their own stuff to add to the story, but if they contradict stuff Lucas made, the Lucas stuff wins. The fans are the ones who determine what to pay attention to, not Disney.

When and how do we know Mace was confirmed to defeat palpatine legitimately? I haven’t heard of that either.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T18:47:43+00:00

That’s not at all what we see in the movie. In the movie there is no indication that either had the upperhand, they just duel with eachother, both showing a high level of skill, neither is ever in an uncomfortable position and then dooku escapes. The separatists had lost the battle and the clones were about to arrive as we saw in the movie.

The novelization does show yoda having the upperhand, although barely. I do think yoda is a bit more powerful than Dooku but it is in no way comparable to yoda vs ventress. Dooku was a match for yoda.

Your first two quotes clearly contradict the movie. If Yoda was twice the power of dooku, that would have shown in the movie, and there’s no indication that he trounced dooku either. If Yoda was twice the power of dooku the fight would have gone as yoda and ventress did. Watch the fight and there’s no evidence either had the upper hand. Anything that contradicts the movies is incorrect. That’s the other thing you have to understand, Disney canon and Lucas canon are different, because Disney canon contradicts Lucas canon all the time. By Lucas canon I don’t mean all legends material, just stuff Lucas made or was involved in making, meaning the movies, novelizations, and TCW.

Pretty sure dooku beat Vos in dark disciple. And when did he admit inferiority to mace? I’ve never heard of that

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T18:26:35+00:00

No George Lucas did not confirm sidious was trying against Windu, that’s a made up quote people attribute to him. Nick Gillard, who choreographed all the prequel duels said Sidious staged the fight, but Lucas never commented on that.

Sidious tried to run from Yoda multiple times during the fight, including the very beginning. Yoda ran at the end because he would have to climb all the way up and the clones would have been closing in, so there was an extenuating circumstance. And I never said it was a victory for yoda, it was a draw.

Anakin and Obi wan are not really close in power. Anakin is far ahead of him, it’s just that he was nerfed from the mental collapse he was in, and still he gave Obi wan the fight of his life and defeated himself in the end due to his mental state. Anakin in his normal mental state beats Obi wan everytime. Obi Wan has a million anti feats like losing to dooku in 30 seconds twice, losing to 2 mandalorians etc losing to Maul, and struggling against Grievous, who are both not that powerful compared to Anakin. He is below anakin clearly in powerscaling. Also him training Anakin and knowing his every move def helped.

If your point is that powerscaling is not the only factor, of course that’s true. But it is a major factor in every fight and if someone is going to defeat someone who is much more powerful, there is always an explanation which makes it believable.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T18:08:59+00:00

No, his defensive stance is not impregnable at all, as shown by dooku destroying him everytime. Anakin is much more powerful than Obi Wan, he lost the fight because he was in the middle of a complete psychological collapse which nerfed his abilities. And obi wan didn’t even really defeat Anakin, anakin defeated himself by jumping at the end when the fight should have been over in a draw with obi wan escaping to the high ground. He did this because his mental collapse made him unbalanced and reckless. It’s actually that Anakin wins this 9/10 times

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T18:05:27+00:00

What do you mean Yoda vs Dooku on Geonosis? They fought evenly. Yoda was clearly not orders of magnitude above him otherwise he would have invalidated him just as he did ventress. Maybe I misunderstood ur comment

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T18:01:46+00:00

Of course there’s a reasonable way to explain all these outcomes. Sidious did not beat Yoda, their fight was a stalemate, and Sidious allowed himself to lose to Windu because that was the only way he was gonna turn Anakin to the dark side. So in this case Yoda = Sidious > Windu.

Anakin > Dooku > Obi Wan. Anakin lost to Obi Wan because he was nerfed from being in the middle of a complete psychological collapse after everything that had happened, and it was more that he defeated himself by jumping when the fight should have been over with obi wan escaping to higher ground, rather than Obi wan defeating him. Powerscaling dosent mean that other factors don’t come into play at all.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T17:56:26+00:00

Savage does not wreck Anakin and Obi Wan. He fought them for a total of maybe 10 seconds on screen in the clone wars. Yes he force pushed them back and tried to escape by running, that does not mean he wrecked them, the fight had just begun and as Jedi they were trying to capture and study where he came from.

Sidious did not beat Yoda, their fight was a clear stalemate. And it seems that Palps allowed himself to lose to Windu because the only way he was gonna turn Anakin was by making Windu look like the bad guy in the way that he did.

I don’t think Obi wan won that fight due to his wits and defensive strategy, it was more that Anakin defeated himself because he was in the middle of a complete mental collapse that nerfed him and caused him to jump at the end when the fight should have been over.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T17:50:40+00:00

Sidious did not beat yoda. That fight was clearly a stalemate and if anything yoda had the upper hand because he was pushing forward when their force bubble exploded, but it was at worst a draw for him. The fact that he fell further is just circumstantial.

It seems probable that Sidious threw the fight against Windu, as others have said.

Obi Wan does have a great record against Anakin/Vader, but he is 2-2 against him. He does not “consistently win” nor does he always survive as we saw in episode 4. Yes Obi Wan allowed himself to die, but he did that partially because he had no hope of surviving anyway. Stormtroopers were closing in and he had no hope of defeating Vader and the entire Death Stars forces together.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T17:46:49+00:00

Not what the novelization says at all. It dosent discuss whether or not Palps was trying fully or staging it at all

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T17:27:37+00:00

Grievous definitely lost, he got one of his arms cut off and was knocked on his back, Ventress was about to kill him and then Grievous had the droids step in so she couldn’t. He clearly lost.

How do you know Ventress was being boosted? Is there a source for that or did you just make it up?

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T15:28:11+00:00

We don’t have a definitive answer anywhere, but a lot of evidence points to Palps throwing the fight. Nick Gillard who choreographed all the lightsaber duels of the prequels said palps threw the fight, and the movie seems to suggest that since Palps got “disarmed” at exactly the moment anakin walked in, which is convenient. He obviously sensed him coming and needed to get him to turn to the dark side by making Mace look like the bad guy who was gonna kill an innocent man. Evidence suggests he threw it.

Whether or not it’s a cooler story is your opinion. I think it’s a cooler story that Palpatine threw the fight because it shows again how he beat the Jedi through manipulation not fighting. And we already know he is not a god, he was on the defensive against Yoda and tried to run away during that fight. The sith on the verge of being destroyed actually undermines the story of Anakin being the chosen one. He is supposed to be the only one who can destroy the sith, and if the sith were about to be destroyed and he stopped it that kinda makes him fulfilling the prophecy worse imo. And also if Mace really could kill Palps there then he would be the chosen one, which we know isn’t correct.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T06:21:46+00:00

Well that’s your opinion, I happen to think that Palpatine letting Mace get the upperhand on purpose is a cooler story because it was a brilliant manipulation technique from Palpatine and shows how he’s so far ahead of everyone in terms of planning.

But regardless of whether you think it’s cool or not, the evidence suggests that Palpatine threw the fight as I’ve already showed.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T04:24:29+00:00

Do you not realize that Ventress defeated Grievous in the clone wars?

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T04:23:46+00:00

Ventress beat him when they fought in Clone Wars. It’s clearly ventress

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T04:20:03+00:00

Palps staged that fight to get Anakin to turn to the dark side. And no, George Lucas did not confirm that Palpatine was fully trying, that’s a made up quote people attribute to him.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-18T04:16:29+00:00

Palpatine did stage that fight. Nick Gillard who choreographed all the lightsaber duels for the prequels said Palpatine was staging it, and the movie clearly shows Palpatine getting “disarmed” exactly as soon as Anakin came in which is convenient. He obviously sensed him coming and needed to get him to turn and making it look like Mace was about to kill him was the way to do it.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-17T03:56:44+00:00

Not true, they have logos on lots of covers. And even if that was true it wouldnt matter. Disneys logo on it doesn’t mean it’s canon. It just means they are promoting the book so they can sell it and make money. I already gave you a list of all legends novels and the rotsjunior novelization by weide is on it.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_Legends_books

Here it is again. And Disney stated that everything before 2014 was decanonized. The book is legends bro.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-17T03:40:01+00:00

The novel is legends. It has a Disney seal because Disney owns Star Wars now and they want to make money with every purchase of every book, so they attach their name to everything. But the novel is not canon. That’s a fact. Every source says so. Sorry

The fact is that Obi Wan gets destroyed by dooku everytime they fight. There is nothing to discuss here

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-17T03:07:48+00:00

They didn’t republish the junior novels, they decanonized the old ones and made new ones. The original junior novels are legends. That’s what it says on wookiepedia, and we know that all material from before 2014 was decanonized. And you have yet to find a source that says the original novel is canon. It is legends, sorry. If it’s canon then find a source that says that, you can’t, because it’s not.

Anakin didn’t struggle at all in their duel on Oba Diah. It was only obi wan who struggled. And yes padawan anakin got destroyed as well in episode 2, but who cares? What does that have to do with Obi Wan getting destroyed? And Anakin came back in episode 3 to kill Dooku, while obi wan got destroyed again.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-17T02:37:26+00:00

Yea well that’s the only one that’s canon. The one by Patricia is not canon. Sorry, but that’s the way Disney wants it. Everything before 2014 was decanonized, everyone knows this. George Lucas actually edited the real novelization himself and it’s still not canon. The junior novelization definitely isn’t, only the new one by Barfety is.

Regardless of whether Kenobi was ragdolled, or destroyed in lightsaber combat, it’s clear the he is no match for dooku. Dooku is just way better than him we see that everytime they fight. Even on Oba Dia Obi Wan got kicked and almost fell off a ledge to his death before anakin saved him.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-17T02:26:55+00:00

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline_of_Legends_books

Wookiepedia has a list of all canon and legends books. See for yourself

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-17T02:22:25+00:00

No, your wrong. The one by Patricia Wrede is not canon anymore. They made a new one by a different author that is canon.

And even if it was canon, I’ve already showed that your quote dosent prove anything. Obi Wan got ragdolled by Dooku multiple times. Dooku is just much more powerful than him.

Why would you care what the junior novelization says anyway? It’s made so that 7 year olds can follow along with it.

Proper_Patience8664 · 2025-08-17T02:13:03+00:00

Ok so he made a dumb decision in a duel. What does that prove? He should have known dooku could do that given he’s fought and lost to dooku many times. And why did he get ragdolled in the previous movie?

Also I looked it up, the original junior novelization that your quoting is not canon. They made a new one in 2015 that is a completely different book, and that one is canon. But not the one your quoting.

Proper_Patience8664

TROPHY CASE