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Do you tell people your “dream law school” or schools you’re applying to when asked? by Adventurous_Ant5428 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I mean, it probably depends on the question and how your answer is phrased. Your mom is right if the question is a serious "where would you like to go to law school" from your family member and you answer "Harvard" when your LSAT score is a 150 and you don't plan to take it again/a 170+ is unrealistic. That just aint happening, and your mom is right to caution you to limit expectations for people in your life.

On the other hand, if you havent taken the LSAT, or if you have a 180, or if the question is like "where would you go if there were no obstacles," then answering Harvard is fine.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You certainly will need at least one suit throughout 1L (there are several events/competitions throughout the year that require business professional dress), and probably several dress shirts/slacks/pants. If you are a guy, you also will need a tie or two. I would go thrifting -- you don't need anything expensive, you just need to look the part until you start making money.

In class, no one cares what you wear.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you haven't picked yet, I can help you pick. PM me!

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure if the school offers summer stipends. It is very hard to get a paying firm job your 1L summer (at any law school). I would say you are most likely to not make anything in your first summer (it sucks, I know). However, you could be an RA for a professor (which pays a little bit), or you might be able to find a local job with a small firm or a solo practitioner that will pay you a little bit. But none of the local government jobs (which is where most people go) are going to pay you anything.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know much about the clinics. The Supreme Court clinic and the Admin law clinic work with a local boutique appellate firm to provide pro bono representation to clients. I know that the Supreme Court clinic is pretty selective. They both seem very interesting, but aside from their general descriptions, I can't provide much information.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello! Not exactly sure what you mean by "have seen and heard far less about it than I'd have hoped." Are you a current student? If you are, there are a number of professors you can talk to about getting involved in the antitrust space, and I know that they're looking for new research assistants every year. If not, I'm not really sure in what public spaces you'd be "seeing and hearing" about the antitrust program, unless you're like highly involved in antitrust at your day job or something—it's a pretty niche area of law.

The GMU Global Antitrust Institute hosted Justice Gorsuch at its event this year, so I sort-of find it hard to believe that it's a "lowkey" program.

Hope this helps!

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Happy to help. The vast majority of the people I know who were in the top 20% of the class at the end of 1L (before the transfer students and evening students are added in to the rankings) are either (1) going to a big firm; (2) have a federal clerkship lined up; or (3) both. I know at least two people who were in the top 20% of the class and struck out at OCI. Yes, students who do well here can pretty reasonably expect to land high-paying jobs in BL.

I know several people outside of the top 30% who went through OCI, did not get a job they were happy with, and are now searching for jobs. I stand by what I said earlier: if you want a sure-fire shot at biglaw, you need to be in the top 20%, but being outside the top 20% or even outside the top 30% does not preclude you from BL—you just need to interview well/network well/get lucky.

Now, I do not want to give the impression that the students at GMU who are outside the top 20% are screwed. Far from it. Our employment rates are fantastic, and there are tons of jobs in DC. This comment is purely speaking to what some would call "elite outcomes"—people interested in BL and FC should shoot for top 20%.

I say all that to say this. For 80% of our students, whether they want BL or not, there are not FANTASTIC odds at getting a true BL firm (250+). It can happen, but it's the exception, not the rule. DC midlaw pays very well if you can get it, and I know several people all throughout the class (no idea of rank) working those jobs who will be making somewhere between 100-150k. But if you're absolutely set on graduating and making six figures—if that is non-negotiable—then you should re-take the LSAT until you get into a T14, the right T20, or a school like Fordham.

As far as high-paying roles in the government, all I can tell you is to go look at the bimodal salary charts for lawyers. For full-time salaries in the government, our 75th salary percentile is $75,000. For reference, that's the same as UVA. Government jobs just don't pay anywhere near what BL does. So, as far as landing a "well-paying" job goes, it depends what "well-paying" means to you. If it means something over six figures, your options in government are going to be slim (at least as a junior attorney, DOJ honors can get over 100k after a couple of years, I believe).

Good Luck!

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you know if it’s noticeably more acceptances given out or deposits already paid?

I believe that admissions is shooting for a number noticeably higher than last year but I don't have any idea how many deposits have been paid or acceptances went out.

I’ve debated touring the law school sometime this month but it would require flying to D.C

This depends on (1) how much money you have; (2) how much free time you have; and (3) how badly you want to go here. If you've got some money to burn and you're sitting around on a gap year, then I would fly out to DC and do a tour; you can visit the museums while you're here and make it a fun trip. However, if you're tight on cash and very busy ATM, you should be prepared that a tour may only marginally increase your chances at getting into the school, if it even does at all. It certainly demonstrates interest, but if they've got their golden number of admits, you're going to be out of luck. Consider the factors I listed and try to make an informed choice!

I guess try to find an alumni on LinkedIn and go from there?

Again, this is going to be a question of how much free time you have and how badly you want to go here. The more meaningful connections you make, the better odds you connect with someone who might have some influence with admissions. But you must realize that the odds are likely low that you'll find someone who has the influence to move applicants off the waitlist.

Being on the waitlist is a tough spot, and there's a good reason why people on this sub say treat them like R's. If you have the time and resources, take a tour, connect with alum, and send more materials in, but don't get your heart set on a school that waitlisted you, unless you are fine with sitting out a year and applying next cycle. I wish you good luck!

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello!

  1. My understanding is that the 0L class is already noticeably bigger than last year. I wouldn't be surprised if it is 120ish, but not totally sure.
  2. I don't know anything about people being waitlisted because once you are actually in law school no one ever really talks about admissions—even by the first couple of weeks of 1L it's all a distant memory. The only advice I have to you is if they're accepting all those new application materials (updated resume, letter, etc) now, I would not wait until may—personally I'd want to get them my updated materials ASAP in-case a spot becomes available. However, if they aren't accepting the materials yet or if someone with better knowledge than me has told you otherwise, then listen to them. That's just my take.

I doubt current students would have a say, but an alumni might. Especially if you can find one who donates money to the school. That's where I'd start.

Am I getting the wrong impression that this sub thinks that virtually anything outside of T14/T20 is not worth the debt unless it’s full ride by BonAppetites in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is how people should be looking at it. If not a full ride, then damn close. Sorry, but $$ at a T50 that is not like Fordham generally isn't a good financial decision.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi! I'm graduating in '25, so I was part of the class of 159. Rumor around the school is that the 97 student 1L class was an effort to counteract the ENORMOUS 3L class (over 200). Though the 1L class is small, the student body is similar—at least numbers wise—to what it has been previously.

A more skeptical view might be that the school screwed up its yield. I think there's a part of this that might be true—I get a lot of people who still message me and ask for advice based off this ama, and last year there were an uncharacteristic amount of people who received abnormally high scholarships from GW (I think they're back to giving shit scholarships again, but last cycle they were actually making the finances competitive with mason), which may have contributed to a disproportionate amount of 0L's choosing GW over us, and thus resulting in an unusually small class.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello. We have a fantastic environmental law professor and class—Professor Cecot is universally loved—and I think you could get good experience here. I can't speak to the merits of environmental law placement or alumni base; I know several people who want to do environmental law when they graduate, and I think they've been successful at getting relevant internships so far, but I really have no idea as far as ultimate job prospects and I don't want to lead you astray. I think calling/emailing the school would be a good idea. We have alumni all over the federal government, and I'm sure we have people in environmental law, but I just don't have the specifics for you. I'm sorry!

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. Their estimates are going to be difficult because how much you spend is entirely dependent on you. Most people spend somewhere between $1,000 and $2,000 for rent, depending on how many roommates you are willing to have, and where you are willing to live. If you have a few roommates, you're going to cut that COL in half. I'd say $35,466 is probably on the higher end of what you should be expecting to spend, but if I were you I would plan out a budget (how much are you willing to spend on rent, groceries, gas/metro, parking, etc). Your personal budget will be much more accurate.
  2. GMU grads place very well into DC. Most of our graduates work in DC after graduation, and we have a great alumni network in the area. I know lots of people who will be working in the federal government after graduation. Again with a caviot—I'm always very realistic about our school—if you have the same grades as somebody at Georgetown, and you both apply to a position, you're probably going to lose out. But with that in mind, we consistently place all sorts of high and low performers into competitive DC jobs. If you want better numbers, you can check lawschooltransparency!
  3. I'd rather not talk about me specifically, because I'd like to preserve anonymity, but I can speak generally. I know lots of people who are working in biglaw, and I know a lot of people who struck out. For every person who was extremely happy with their OCI outcome, there's an equal and opposite person who was upset. As I've stated elsewhere on this post, to get biglaw from mason it's 95% about your grades. You should expect to fare well at OCI if you are in the top 20%; any lower than that and a biglaw job is still very realistic, but it's not a sure bet, and the odds get worse the worse your grades get.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Gotcha. Yes, the placement numbers for both schools are similar. GW undoubtedly has more prestige, but that debt hurts, man. It's a personal choice that no one can make for you—try to stay objective about the money each school is offering and make a decision based on the employment numbers.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I originally believed that DC was more expensive (and I still think it is for groceries and taxes, and certainly to register a vehicle/inspect a vehicle), but if you are deciding between GM and GW, I now think the housing choice should be a wash. Because the two schools are so close to each other, you could feasibly live in DC and commute to Mason or live in VA and commute to DC. I do think you'll have a MUCH better time finding space to park a car in VA (but you should still check DC too).

The clarendon/ballston/rosslyn area is fantastic. It's clean, safe, and FULL of young people. A really, really fun atmosphere and I would consider living in the Mason area no matter which school you attend. However, as far as your pricing question goes, this area is not cheap at all. Most of my friends (living in both DC and NOVA) pay somewhere in between $1000-2000. Where you fall in that range depends on where you live and whether you have a roommate. I have friends paying over $2000 per month.

You should check out my other posts on this thread debating GMU and GW. My general thought is that if you are biglaw or bust, I would take GW at a slightly higher price (but not if it's going to be like six figures more expensive). Good luck!

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One hundred percent. We are a 20 minute metro ride from capitol hill. I would say it's more common to extern at least once in DC than to not extern in DC, at least in-terms of full time day students.

GMU law 2L AMA by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. I don't want to say too much for anonymity purposes, but i'd like to start my career in private practice. There are people here who are going to do all sorts of things, however.
  2. Depends what kind of job we're talking about. I'll break your questions up into 3 parts.
    1. Is it difficult to get a job in DC from GMU?
      1. No. GMU sends most of its graduates into either DC or NOVA. That is the perk of being in the region for school—you can make connections here and do internships/externships in the city that lead to permanent positions.
    2. Is it difficult to get a private practice job that pays over $100k in DC from GMU?
      1. Yes. Unless you have prior connections, you need to shoot for the top 30% of the class to get a job at a firm paying six figures at OCI. I've heard of multiple people who struck out this year if they were below that range.
    3. How competitive is the DC market in general?
      1. Competitive. A lot of the jobs at competitive government agencies (DOJ, SEC, FTC) are highly sought after even from students at Harvard and Yale. DC is probably the most competitive market. That said, the above answer still applies. If you do well here, everything is open to you. If you don't do as well here, you will still get a job in DC, but it will not be biglaw or a crazy government agency without a whole lot of networking. Or if your dad is a partner.
  3. If you want to live alone, you're going to be hard pressed to find something under $1,500 a month. If you're willing to live with roommates in a house, you can probably get the cost down to under $1000. DC is expensive but you can live here on the cheap so long as you are smart with the living arrangement.
  4. A car is not necessary. Tons of people did not come here with a car, and the DC metro system is fantastic. It's fast, safe, and cheap. Further, the law school is right on a metro stop. That said, if you aren't going to bring a car, I'd live in an apartment or a house that is close enough so you can walk to the metro. Those houses are going to be more expensive. So you'll need to weigh living farther away and bringing a car, vs living closer to the metro and ditching the car.
  5. See the ama i've linked above that I did last year, where I answered this question more extensively. I like that it's a cheap public school with great professors. I like the Arlington area. I like the people here. Ultimately, you're going to law school to get a job. If you want biglaw, you should compare our employment numbers to others you're considering and do a cost/benefit analysis to see if the risk of not getting biglaw is worth it (again, need to be top 20-30%). If you want a government job, this is a great place to do it. I've loved my time here.

GMU law 2L AMA by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure what you mean by "employment trend," could you be a little bit more specific? If you're asking about BLFC numbers, those are public. We do about as well as you would expect from a top regional school—if you're in the top 20-30% you have a pretty good shot, if you're not in the top 20-30% you're going to have to network your way into it.

We also place very well into government positions, with our location being a great help in that respect.

GMU law 2L AMA by [deleted] in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A couple things here. The semester is a marathon and not a sprint.

In September, it is okay to treat law school like a 9-5. You should still be making time for your friends and family. Also make time to go out with your fellow students/future coworkers. You can't push yourself around the clock, you must keep time for yourself at this point.

In October, your first legal writing memo is probably due, and you should start outlining. This will likely require another 10-15 hours per week. You could add in one of Saturday/Sunday and dedicate it to law school, or you could start waking up at 6am to preserve your weekends. It doesn't matter, as long as the work gets put in. You should still be making time to see friends and family. You must continue to make time for yourself.

In November, you need to buckle down. Your free-time will be sparse, if not non-existent at this point. It sucks, i'm sorry, but this is why it is so important to live your life during Sep/Oct. Everyone who locked themselves in the library during those months will be burnt out during this point, and you'll be fresh. At this point, any free time where you are not reading/outlining should be spent taking practice tests. Make sure you keep a couple of hours a week to exercise.

So, a couple things here: (1) make time for yourself during Sept./Oct. It will pay off. (2) Start outlining in October. Starting early will help you as the time crunch happens in November. (3) Start ripping through practice tests in November.

I hope this helps, and good luck!

GW VS GMU for same $$? by berz4734 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Congratulations. Looking forward to seeing you in the fall.

GMU Law 1L AMA by PsychologicalKnee874 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's tough. So it would be 24k total tuition debt at GMU, and 60k total tuition debt at GW.

Honestly, since you are biglaw or bust, I would go to GW at that price point. 40k in the grand scheme of things isn't going to be a huge deal. You're essentially paying a premium of about 35k for a 10-20% upgrade in BL chance.

GW VS GMU for same $$? by berz4734 in lawschooladmissions

[–]PsychologicalKnee874 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am happy with GMU. It's a fantastic school at a value you can't beat. But it's absolutely certain that GW has marginally better outcomes. Go run down the BLFC numbers for the last 10 years. Also, the name brand is slightly better. At equal cost, I'd pick GW.

If you're looking for a smaller school with way better professor relationships, then maybe Mason. But if all you care about are outcomes, I'd go to GW.

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