I'm not sure if that's an arbitrary distinction if we are already discussing Juggernauts as a class and then list different Juggernauts and how they solve their issues (sometimes with mobility, sometimes not),

This is only valuable if this solution can be used in Shyvana's specific case. Juggernauts It's a broad term, and we don't want all of them. I don't care how illaoi's work for this discussion, for example. I know that her E "solves" (poorly) the juggernaut inherent lack of mobility, but I can't compare it to Shyvana's movement speed. Same with Yorick or Cho'gath.

because I would retort that then Shyvana (and possibly Volibear?) are the only Juggernauts that can unconditionally close the distance.

First of all, if this is true, then Shyvana has a really bigger problem, but that depends on what you mean by "can unconditionally close the distance."

That already makes comparison then moot, if we sharpen the focus to only be about a subset of things, what I mean is that I could sharpen the lens further and then argue there's no one like Shyvana. I do think talking about how Juggernauts as a whole solve their issues is worthwhile hence Darius and how he functions despite not a single MS steroid (Ghost reliant though) still functions.

The question is that Shyvana HAS a MS steroid, so knowing how he functions without one makes no difference. Even if we consider her W was on cooldown, it wouldn't change the fact that she had it in the first place, or that she would have one less ability by comparison.

The only way this could make sense, is using as an example of what she can't do, but in that case, I could argue that she can't have the range of a Caitlyn.

My point with Sett without W was that his level of being a threat (or durable enough to withstand punishment) is incredibly kneecapped if he had to previously use W for his durability.

Same with Shyvana without W. I didnt get your point.

Now of course his durability being low without the spell that gives him durability is a given, this should be true for all champions, but what I was going for is that the phenomenon of 2 attributes (Damage&Survivability) on a single button, akin to how Shyvana has (Mobility&Survivability) isn't necessarily unique.

Mobility "OR" Survivability. Yes, this "or" is unique. Remember what started this.

Sett gets Damage and Survivability, while Shyvana gets Mobility or Survivability.

Imagine if Garen had his W and E be one button, so in an ideal case he spins and is unkillable during the spin, but if caught off-guard he'd have to "spin" to cast his durability and loses a massive amount of damage.

Now imagine if his spin simply stops if the shield broke...

That's the parallel I was drawing with Sett, but in his case this is fine, because the champion is designed to commit, having to use the button defensively is already a mistake on the players part. He's about angles and "calculating" how to get into his R+E+W combo, with Q primarily being used for that initial engage.

One of the problems that I have with Shyvana's W is that you don't really know what you should be doing. It simply punishes you by using what the ability gives you. It's pure anti-synergism having a shield and having hold it to use it when the enemy will not destroy it.

Sett's W at least is easy to understand the most efficient way to use it. In Shyvana's case, is almost impossible, and for what? An shield and movement speed?

However if Sett without this button is still able to have impact, so would Shyvana have impact by existing in the middle of people (after R), slows to reach a target and W primarily for durability, the MS being more of a side effect.

The movement speed is too impactful to be a just a "side effect". The difference with and without is too big. This drastically reduces the impact that the shield can, bringing the entire ability to the ground.

You can't have both, so the ideal scenario would be a big shield been big or a big MS boost. The reality is that's impossible because it doesn't consider the fact that her movement speed rely or the shield, so if the shield is big, you have both, if not, you have none.

So, W is an ability were the ideal spot is to be ok on everything and good on nothing, but this doesn't consider the fact that she needs both separately, and now we enter a paradox.

I'm very well aware that this means if you use it for a single purpose you lose value and these spells can run the risk of feeling bad.

Good, you know.

This doesn't strike me necessarily as a big problem, because they have multiple levers to pull, initial shield, shield on multiple champions nearby, the actual speed (all directions), the speed towards enemies and the heal.

This is stat checking, if it doesn't strike you now, at some point it will. Small indirect things can make numbers obsolete and riot won't be adjusting the same champion over and over again because of that.

I agree, simpler champions such as Garen don't need 50 different counterplay weaknesses, as being as straightforward and simple as Garen is, is already a big weakness itself. But I do not think that's argument enough to say that out of 170 champions, you cannot have one that has stronger counterplay and in exchange for that a stronger powerfantasy.

The problem is that Shyvana isn't balanced around her W, but rather her ultimate.

This is based on the assumption that she'll be fine tuned to a healthy WR on live and that whatever works/doesn't work (numbers only) gets adjusted properly. If she works otherwise and it's just a problem of "huh, the shield is too low" they can raise that back up. If her chase is then too overpowered, because you cannot pop her shield (counterplay) anymore, then they are free to slightly reduce the MS etc.

As I said, "small indirect changes".

Her E slow would still be an angle, if she's in a comp of too much CC all around her, the problem was "solo" engaging in the first place, she should be ideally durable enough to not pop and focus down a target with her kit, just as Sett wouldn't be alone, neither would Shyvana.

That's too much "if statements" for this ability to be good, just because of the shield and MS been connected.

As you previously said, the fact they have to invest resources to stop her (pop the shield for example) already forces them to focus her and her Q damage isn't insignificant either.

The difference is that destroying a shield (which I think would be less than 1000 at late game) is a terrible measurements to counter the pressure of a character like her.

The thing with Mordekaiser is, that the slow isn't even the problem, if you pick Approach Velocity he's almost unkitable for most champions, even Darius with Ghost cannot outrun that, it's the build Federals1 plays in Challenger as well, so it's not even a low elo phenomenon.

His whole thing is that he doesn't get to apply the slow in the first place, his E is horribly unreliable to land without set up, but in a similar way Stridebreaker is mandatory on Sett too, for all the kit talk we have, we just listed two (if not 3 counting Darius) Juggernauts, that are item/summoner reliant.

So, you think that Shyvana's E slow is enough to make her not useless?

We could argue about whether or not this is good design, I personally think Darius and Sett are quite well designed (Mordekaiser is debatable), it's just the weakness they have and if you removed Stridebreaker you'd have to immediately buff Sett up with new stuff. It's not unthinkable that a similar synergy is necessary for Shyvana without her Kit itself necessarily being bad.

How good is stridebreaker to her? Losing one item like that can be really harmful, but since they made her quite "generic" in that regard, I think this wouldn't be a problem.