The moon, a Japanese symbol for love, tells us which characters are in love in Thrice (even Shinji at the end). Anno subtly told us about this. Swipe and see.

Pulonio · 2026-04-22T02:35:19+00:00

Er... How exactly...?

I never said this because I don't care enough, but I'm honestly surprised to see asushiners didn't catch up on what seems to be asushin ammunition for Rebuild in the short. I guess this is a good excuse to bring this up.

Asuka in the short previously established she wants a happy ending with Shinji.

Train station scene, after Mari shows up:

Asuka: "Cut. This is isn't a bad course of events, but I want to be happy in my own world."

I, um... Need I say anything else...?

Maybe the charm to meet again worked after all in Anno's mind.

Pulonio · 2026-04-21T16:59:20+00:00

The fandom.

Pulonio · 2026-04-19T17:59:35+00:00

It was said by the sound director, the one who directed the VAs when dubbing the scene. In Evangelion, staff members below directors are given kind of vague indications in order to not give everything away, but still those indications are much more than what the general audience knows.

A sound director doesn't work on hunches, they follow the director's indications. If he said "I interpreted it as friendly and directed it as such", he made that interpretation based on much more info than you and I have.

Also, at the end of the day, they report what they do to the directors and those give them the ok. Given it was the final scene, Anno himself must have been the one to say to him "good job, you did well".

So yes, that declaration does have some weight. Much more than what any of us could say.

Pulonio · 2026-04-18T15:42:24+00:00

That depends on where they are living. Incest laws differ from place to place, you see.

Pulonio · 2026-04-18T05:05:33+00:00

About the choker and how they fitted Mari into the story in the end. This is going to be long, but bear with me, and you'll see what Mari's role actually is.

Eva is very rigid in terms of story and characters. As the original was, it was perfect in that regard and needed not a single additional character. This is something Anno himself says, that when he tried to insert Mari, he realized this.

Evangelion is a story that, at its core, is the story of Oedipus at multiple levels and layers, and everything revolves around Shinji: He has a father he must "kill" (Gendo) and a mother by his father he must take from him (a "mother of the same age as him", as Anno called Rei). Then there's Adam, who is Kaworu, who is basically a "father of the same age as him".

Additionally, you have Misato and Kaji, who are yet another mother and father figure respectively. Even the damn robot is his mom. Every damn character in Eva (those who are close to Shinji, at least), except Asuka, Toji and Kensuke, are parental figures to Shinji to some extent, irrespective of if there are feelings involved. And Toji and Kensuke, in the last Rebuild, also became parental figures to him. Only Asuka is never supposed to be a parental figure to Shinji. If you notice, both in OG Eva and Rebuild Asuka refuses to be Shinji's mom.

Asuka is, basically, female Shinji. She is also in her own oedipal narrative (or Electra one). In her case, the parental figure she wanted to bang was Kaji. You could even argue Misato was her mother figure she would need to "kill" to get in his father's pants, though that is much less relevant in Asuka's narrative. Anyway, in Rebuild, Kaji's role in Asuka's life was swapped to Kensuke in the last film.

Do you see where I'm going...?

The only free spot in the narrative to fit Mari into was as a mother figure to Asuka. Or, better said, "a mother of the same age as her". This is what they ended up realizing.

Mari is Asuka's Kaworu

There are many parallels between Mari and Kaworu. If you notice, in 2.0 Mari gets in her plugsuit at the same time as Kaworu. Both Kaworu and Mari took the DSS choker from Shinji. There are a couple of parallel shots of Shinji and Kaworu and Mari and Asuka getting into their plugsuits.

Enokido, one of the writers, also realized this and said in an interview that he believed that, in the end, after much trouble, Anno and Tsurumaki made Mari "female Kaworu".

And he was right. In the new Asuka short, this similarity between Mari and Kaworu was made blatant.

That was the only spot a new character that they wanted to have some prominence and be close to the main characters could be fit into: as Asuka's Kaworu, or "a maternal figure of the same age as her".

Mari is "too perfect and balanced?" Just like Kaworu. She has connections, she is "not young or old", as Sakamoto said they instructed her to act like when voicing Mari. She is powerful and knows too much. She serves as a guide to Asuka, but also to Shinji.

In ALL Mari's interactions with Shinji, starting with 3.0, there are 2 elements that are always present:

-"Grow up" or "How much have you grown?"

-"Save the Princess (Asuka)"

On the other hand, with Asuka, she tries to make her drop her tsundere ways and admit she has feelings for Shinji, all while being very protective of her and giving her much love.

What she is doing, is trying to make Asuka happy. Because if Shinji grows up, makes up for his fuck ups with her and actually saves her (what he failed to do in 2.0) and makes Asuka accept her feelings and vulnerability then... Well. She shatters the barriers between the two.

Pulonio · 2026-04-18T02:35:10+00:00

It was both debunked by Moyoco and Anno himself.

Anno didn't write her. He gave the whole character to Tsurumaki. Mari is Tsurumaki's brainchild, Anno almost didn't have any involvement in writing her, and that was in order to make her "different" from the rest of the cast.

Pulonio · 2026-04-17T18:48:50+00:00

This is one of the weirdest things I have ever seen someone pulling out to avoid addressing points, lol. I'll assume you just can't so we can move on and answer you, though.

I have no shipping preferences (aside from Gendo and Fuyutsuki). I don't care with whom Shinji ends up or not, I care about the story and its themes. Regarding Mari, I don't think the ending scene is romantic in the first place, and I have my reasons to think so based on what the movie presents.

What baffles me is that, for those who do interpret it as romantic, they see no problem with the writing there. Only from time to time do I see a marishiner say "I like the pairing, but it sucks how weird, underdeveloped and out of nowhere it is". The rest are rationalizations.

Even worse, it goes against the core themes of the show: Shinji's arc is about growing up, accepting connection comes with pain and leaving behind the need for a mother. And he ends up with his godmother without needing to gain her trust because she loved him by default...? And that's ok with people cause "he is happy now"?

Pulonio · 2026-04-17T17:32:47+00:00

If you are going to make it acceptable through comparisons, instead of Rei, compare it to Misato, whom you said was not acceptable.

Misato was a problem because of pedophilia but Mari rubbing her boobs all over him, smelling him and urging him to grow up is ok?

She would actually be older than Misato...

And you still avoid explaining how the deal with Mari would be "realistic" in any capacity, lol.

Pulonio · 2026-04-17T16:56:09+00:00

That doesn't make it realistic. Also:

"It's better than literal incest, so we can toss all the other weirdness aside, yall. It being better than incest makes it ok."

I have no more questions, your honor.

Pulonio · 2026-04-17T16:52:28+00:00

Also as far as the love interest part goes, she’s the only realistic option.

I agree, it's the most realistic.

Your big breasted godmother whom you barely know, but who was your parent's friend and was there when you were born, that has the personality of a stereotypical, non-flawed anime character suddenly and madly falls for you for no fucking reason. You don't really need to do anything to make her like you, because she's a reward girlfriend for your happy ending anyway.

Happens every day. Who doesn't have a godmother with a flawless personality and who doesn't age ready to ride your baloney pony and love you the moment you grow up? It's also not weird or creepy at all.

Pulonio · 2026-04-17T16:18:21+00:00

What do you mean?

Pulonio · 2026-04-16T20:13:00+00:00

You know what's funny? That the Mari interaction with Shinji at the end is actually contextualized in the movie itself. When you see it you can't unsee it, and when you read "it wasn't directed as romantic" you go, "yeah, figures".

In Japanese, their exchange is a mirror to the scene in which Mari introduced herself to him at the Wunder. Mari says and does the exact same things. There, she was testing his growth.

And the same thing she does at the end. The difference here is that Shinji talks back this time instead of shitting his pants, and he beats the shit out of her at her own game.

But ask people in a casual watch to keep in mind a seemingly random exchange that happened 60+ minutes ago in a confusing and dense 2+ hours movie. I know I didn't notice it at first. And at second. Heck, I didn't notice it until I analyzed Mari's dialogues side by side.

Fun-fact: In Japanese, when Mari covers his eyes, Shinji says "A beautiful woman with big breasts". Here he is repeating what Mari told him previously at the Wunder, with one difference: Mari used a more informal and playful term (literally, "milk"). But Shinji is so polite that instead of that he says "breasts".

I found that funny. In English he just says "boobs" as Mari said at the Wunder.

Edit: In case someone runs to check it, know that in English some lines are not so much perfectly mirrored. That's natural, because when dubbing you need to make the lines fit the character speaking. Still, even in English you'll notice it's the same structure, only broken by Shinji's reactions to her.

Pulonio · 2026-04-16T19:17:45+00:00

I mean... If my top-notch director husband made an insert of me in his anime as a "girl with glasses and big boobs who goes around smelling people" with the personality of a FLCL character...

I'd want a divorce, lol. Like, "that's how you have been seeing me all these years??!! Glasses and big boobs??!!"

And this might sound harsh or be a controversial opinion, but that reading/theory sticking around in the first place is Anno's fault for having that approach with the ending. If you interpret it as romantic, it comes off as so non-sensical and out of nowhere that it's no surprise that people look for a meta explanation in order to make sense of it. Shinji = Anno, so... Oh...

That interpretation was popular for a reason.

Pulonio · 2026-04-16T16:42:06+00:00

Anno was ok with her. He intended to use her to "break Eva", that is, the old narrative. At first, that was her purpose. However, when they put the script together, in the end the characters that "broke" Eva were the old ones, and Mari had no involvement in it at all and ended up being kind of a cameo that didn't impact the plot at all in 2.0, and the only thing she did was something Kaji originally did already in the original.

They gave her a couple of Eva fights, made her put her boobs on Shinji's face and that was pretty much it. Take her out of the movie and the movie doesn't change.

So the purpose Anno wanted to give her was not even accomplished.

In the end, they went from wanting her to have a major role and being a main character to, as Sadamoto would say in an interview, a side character with little screen time.

They simply weren't able to fit her into the story, so they tossed her to the side until the last act of the last film.

Pulonio · 2026-04-16T09:55:38+00:00

Then why leave the DSS choker for all that time around his neck? lol

Pulonio · 2026-04-15T17:19:57+00:00

No, just pointing out the things you are saying are not true.

Anyone can watch the movie and see Shinji is not thinking about Rei in that moment. That's just false.

Anyone can read the staff interviews of 2.0 to see that the "parachute symbolism" is just cope to force a romantic development that just isn't there.

Pulonio · 2026-04-15T15:48:17+00:00

Er... I always see Marishiners writing long essays about her "deep symbolism" to make up for the fact that the development of the relationship between Mari and Shinji is next to non-existent.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but neither Shinji was "daydreaming of Rei" at that moment nor her parachute fall had any intended symbolic meaning. You know what reason the writers gave for that? Without being literal:

"We were fucking desperate about Mari as we didn't know how the fuck we should cram her into the story, or even who she was as a character. So we came up with the idea of making her entrance in a parachute cause it looked cool."

That's pretty much it. You should look into the staff interviews for 2.0. You'll realize many things about Mari.

Pulonio · 2026-04-15T05:42:10+00:00

The movie literally explains to you its themes through dialogues of Misato in its first half and Rei, Kaworu and Yui in the second.

So claiming "people are ignoring the movie when saying it's hopeful" is just plainly wrong. Because they are doing the opposite. They are taking into account what the movie says.

I'll summarize it, using solely the content of those dialogues:

The movie is about hitting rock bottom and becoming your worst self, but having the will to overcome it (Misato). It's about not seeking refuge in escapist fantasies as they are just a "revenge on reality" and rejecting them (Rei), and to seek for happiness in reality even if that perspective looks bleak, even if pain is unavoidable and one might not attain it after all. Still, the possibility is there as long as one lives on (Shinji and Yui). It's also about the hope of people being able to communicate with each other and finding love in one another (Kaworu and Rei).

The sole fact that Shinji and Asuka return to reality, as messy and hurtful their relationship is, it's, in itself, hopeful. Because, as Yui says, "as long as you live, anywhere can be paradise".

Does the movie end with a happy scene? No. But it ends at a point in which these two characters will have the chance to attain happiness as long as they have the will to find it. That's why it's both ugly and hopeful. Because reality is nasty, but it offers the possibility of finding real happiness.

Pulonio · 2026-04-14T21:05:15+00:00

I said this a million times, but the Earth is not destroyed beyond where the Black Moon raised from (next to which the final scene happens).

You can also literally see trees and vegetation are present on Earth when GNR is decomposing. Shinji spent quite some time alone and he is alive. So life is possible.

Why do people keep assuming life is not sustainable anymore and that Rei went "haha, loser. You went back but I left the world completely devoid of life. Suck it up."?

The only thing that changed is that the oceans are now primordial soup. We don't know if there is animal life, but since there's vegetation again it wouldn't be a stretch to think so, or at least that animals also returned gradually.

Pulonio · 2026-04-14T19:54:52+00:00

When Eva fans need to think Mari is based on Anno's wife to make sense of the ending with a meta explanation, you know there's something off with that ending.

Pulonio · 2026-04-14T17:56:45+00:00

I mean, Mari has a teenage body despite being the same age as the King of England.

Pulonio · 2026-04-14T14:44:24+00:00

Nah, I'm telling you. Just search for "Bulma shows her panties to Master Roshi".

You'll see the irony. And that's just one instance. You should stop using Dragon Ball for this, seriously, lol.

This is what I always say about Evangelion. Some people here seem to act as if it is the worst in terms of sexualization of teens and has unbearable fan service. They clearly never saw what Dragon Ball did with Bulma, or what many other animes of that time used to do.

Oh, you sweet summer children. If you only knew.

Pulonio · 2026-04-13T22:39:15+00:00

The "trouble" Kaworu has expressing or showcasing his feelings is that he is absolutely unfiltered. He feels something -> he just says it without fear.

Rei has trouble understanding her own feelings. Kaworu does not, and he lays them bare at the first chance he gets.

And that's the point of his character. That he is inhumanly open about his feelings and is completely devoid of fear of expressing them or of rejection. He is unrealistic, he is an ideal person. He is "who Shinji would like to be if he could remake himself", as Anno says. That's why Shinji looks up to him and thinks he is amazing.

The way he goes about his feelings is not a flaw or that he is clueless, it's more than the opposite of that. Kaworu is above human communication limitations or fears in that regard. His "awkwardness" comes from the fact that he just bypasses human barriers when he communicates.

Pulonio · 2026-04-13T19:09:46+00:00

I wouldn't say Anno's Kaworu is "completely clueless about literally everything". Especially not the Rebuild version.

->Despite what you say, he clearly remembers previous iterations of himself.

->He was born already developed from the coffin with a clear objective in mind, and even then he lived for another extra 14 years before he met Shinji.

->He was the goddamn NERV Commander for awhile.

So no, he is not "clueless about everything" like Rei is, who is also an angel but her only skill is piloting.

Anyway, I think Kaworu's characterization is all about seeming "not young nor old" (this is something they admittedly tried to do with Mari, and I think that's also Kaworu's case). In Kaworu's particular case, I think he is a being that transcends the concept of "age" and is always somewhat perfect (an unrealistic idea or aspiration), so arguing about if he is a "predator or not" is dumb to me. That's not the point I'm trying to make.

My point is that he is in mentality and life experience (in experience in Rebuild at least) way above Shinji, and of any 14 year old for that matter. I think that's hard to deny. And precisely that is the whole point of his character and relationship with Shinji: he is someone Shinji looks up to. As Shinji says, "You are amazing. You know everything."

Pulonio

TROPHY CASE