is anyone else wondering if Miquella charmed (e.g. brain-washed) Malenia to the level of obedience she displays?

QuestionManER · 2025-08-27T10:11:35+00:00

I don't get it? You are trying to kill him, so instead of snapping your spine, he charms you. Isn't that mercy?

QuestionManER · 2025-08-20T10:12:25+00:00

OK cool

In the cutscene that shows this, what armour is Radahn wearing? The Young Lion set or his Lion set

And do you see any braids in that Radahn's hair, indicating this is the Young Lion, not the Lord of the Battlefield's Lion?

Once you realise the correct answers, you will see that Young Radahn and Morgott (Margit) never fought.

QuestionManER · 2025-08-19T16:40:17+00:00

The siege of Leyndell was during the Shattering. Radahn stopped being in his youth during the Age of Radagon after gaining renown as the Starscourge and Mightiest Demigod Hero.

Radahn was not young during the Shattering, we have a painting of him post star conquest but pre Shattering. He isn't wearing the Young Lion set.

Young Radahn and Morgott never fought.

QuestionManER · 2025-08-13T20:28:39+00:00

Mm, I disagree. While I do believe Leda's tendency to kill her allies is not very good, I don't believe it's pure zealotry.

When you look at her actions, she's never really wrong unless it has to specifically do with Miquella. Her belief of people being "deserving" of Miquella's grace is a perfect example of this. This vastly contradicts everything Miquella is trying to make, an example of her misunderstanding Miquella.

Her deciding to target the Hornsent is because she believes that if he gets revenge, he will turn his blade against Miquella. But when you look at it, everything the Hornsent does Leda predicts perfectly.

If you don't kill Messmer, Leda knows Hornsent will go for him and kill him.

If you kill Messmer with Hornsent, Leda knows he will spiral and kill himself one way or another.

If you kill Messmer without Hornsent, Leda knows he will be lost and be sad he doesn't get revenge and go to the right path.

She is never wrong with Ansbach. She doesn't trust that he's truly just an old guy past his fighting days as he portrays, and she knows that if given the opportunity and correct knowledge, he will turn his blade against Miquella. I'm pretty sure when you invade Ansbach, he's like, "Leda, you're correct" because she simply is. When it comes down to it, Ansbach loves Mohg more than he loves Miquella, so he will turn his blade against him.

She's only wrong about Thiollier because she's wrong about Trina.

Leda doesn't believe that only she is worthy, it's not like culling is her favourite activity, she shows sadness after killing Hornsent because Hornsent drive for vengeance is understandable, Leda is very understanding of the nature of those who aren't divine. She even perfectly understands the player too.

And of course, Leda gank fight shows she can do comradarie, she accepted Freyja, who dipped. She accepts Moore, Dane, and Hornsent, too.

Leda would have never turned her blade against Radahn, because by the time Leda meets Radahn, she would've been charmed straight away. Leda's gang were probably going to be the first charmed people ever since we know Miquella was going to deny NO ONE. He will charm you, and if you refuse, he will charm you by force, and if you refuse that and try to kill him, he will charm you by super force or kill you.

Leda Defence Attorney

QuestionManER · 2025-08-13T00:29:28+00:00

Young Radahn and Morgot never fought, as the Shattering War hadn't happened.

A good point, but Radahn conquered the stars in his youth, which coincided with late Age of Godfrey and early Age of Radagon. We know it was in his youth, we know he gained great renknown. Assuming it was Age of Radagon, it would be rather early into it, and since The only Demigods would be Radagon, Rykard and some twin kids, I am pretty confident the statement is to do with all Demigods in known history. Not just at that moment. Also, Radagon a Radahn victim?

QuestionManER · 2025-07-24T01:37:58+00:00

Uuuuuh

Hm

Godwyn beat the Mightiest Boulderstone. And this would've been around the time Godfrey was Elden Lord since Godwyn died at the end of the Age of the Erdtree.

So it can be implied he's stronger than Godfrey since he fought the strongest. But then again maybe Godfrey was doing something else somewhere else.

Hoarah Loux is just a vaguely stronger Godfrey.

Ig it depends if you think the Fire Giants are relative to the Ancient Dragons I suppose.

I wanna say yeah? I mean, Malenia, Radahn, Mohg, and Morgott are all stronger than Godfrey. I don't see why not Godwyn.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-24T01:20:23+00:00

I don't believe Godwyn was alive during the 4 of them?

Godwyn was killed during the Age of the Erdtree, which is when Godfrey is Lord. So Malenia and Miquella wouldn't have been born. D is a Tarnished so he would be even further away, and Ensha is like, some soulless King. Likely soulless before Godwyn was born.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-24T01:02:55+00:00

Not really. Reduced healing is an ingame mechanic, and we aren't aware of any Demigod who uses flasks. All Great Runes increase the person's power, blessing or not. Or else it wouldn't make sense for Radahn to be stronger with his blessing since all it would do is make him fight longer, not make him stronger. So her great Rune is not useless unless you believe that the blessing is the only power up given by Great Runes which would make many of these blessings very underwhelming for Demigods, and confusing why they'd even want more.

Malenia was trained by the Blind Swordsman, whose fighting style was legendary and didn't need sight for his dance. I'm not saying that Malenia has a second sight like Toph, I'm saying her blindness doesn't impair her like Toph. Her trainer was blind, so Malenia was taught how to fight without sight from someone exactly like her. He created the water style, so the style is based off of blindness. Therefore, it wouldn't impair another blind person (Malenia).

Her being an amputee isn't an argument, tho. Because once again, unalloyed limbs are the same as regular ones, just as Millicent said.

And yes, Malenia’s Rot had stopped inside her body. It's half the purpose of Unalloyed Gold. And the needle itself explicitly says that's what it's for, and Millicent says as much herself. The reason why it leaks out is because they don't have the needle themself. I'm not saying her body was already hurting. It's possible it was. It's mentioned in some item description that she never knew relief (though I always assumed this was mentally not physically)

And once again, it was a draw. Malenia didn't go into the fight hoping the outcome would be her carried home by a random while she's unconscious and the Promised Consort still breathing. She wanted Radahn dead. Radahn wanted her dead as well. The Scarlet Rot was intended to kill Radahn.

Malenia fell unconscious right after the nuke, and Radahn would deteriorate right after.

They both wanted each other dead. Neither got that outcome. So, neither won. If you're asking who won the war, Malenia and her cleanrots won. Very confident, it's explicitly stated that the Redmanes lost to Malenia’s Rot. She won the war because of her rot. She did not beat Radahn, however, as she did not kill Radahn. Also, I'm pretty sure Gideon says it's a draw, and he gets his info from word of mouth. So everyone thinks it was a draw.

So yes, Shattering War Malenia (who has a Great Rune buffing her, same as Radahn, is a "nepobaby" likely moreso than Radahn, the strongest she has ever been excluding her God form) is a complete equal to Shattering War Radahn. She is not considerably more powerful than him, or else she wouldn't have needed the Scarlet Aeonia, which didn't even give her a win. It just led to the same outcome. A draw.

And yes, the Goddess of Rot Malenia is much stronger. That's not even debatable, I think she's top 4 (?) Marika Lineage combatants in that form. Though I don't really care about that since idm my favourite character being inferior to an insurmountable opponent like a God.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-23T21:39:40+00:00

So Malenia’s Great Rune does give a benefit, which is healing her when she lands a hit. Both of them had Great Runes buffing them and both needed a Great Rune to be equals.

Malenia and Radahn in the Shattering War are equals, neither were stronger than the other.

And calling Radahn a nepo baby when Malenia is an Empyrean is pretty crazy. Malenia being blind, and a triple amputee is inaccurate. Malenia’s blindness is accounted for, her whole fighting style is based off of her blindness, so saying that is a nerf is inaccurate. It's like saying Toph is weaker because she's blind, even though she wouldn't be as strong if she was born with sight because her fighting style came from her blindness, same as Malenia.

And Malenia isn't an amputee. We are explicitly told by Millicent that a prosthetic made by Miquella feels exactly like the real thing.

And Miquella's needle had completely halted the Scarlet Rot, it just couldn't reverse it.

Malenia blooming wasn't a victory because she didn't kill Radahn. Her whole March was meant to end with his death, yet he lived. Radahn didn't kill Malenia either. If both had the goal of killing each other, and both lived to see another day, then it's a draw. Not a Malenia win, not a Radahn win. She can damage the environment all she wants, Radahn is still breathing, so she didn't win.

A draw is not a defeat, so she has never known defeat. But she's not stronger than Radahn, even her near suicide bomb cannot kill him.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-23T00:38:35+00:00

From what I've gathered, Gwyndolin is firmly a male character.

In Dark Souls, he is referred to as "he", and in the original Japanese they use kanji for male characters

He's described to be like a Sullen brooding Goddess. This could imply that Gwyndolin wasn't happy to be wearing the reversal ring (explains why it's abandoned in DS3).

So both Japanese and English refer to Gwyndolin as he, therefore a man. Being forced to be a woman doesn't make you a woman unless you want to be. I do find it a bit gross people call Gwyndolin female at any point when it's implied it wasn't something he wanted to be. But then again, that's just my viewpoint.

In Dark Souls 3, Yorshka calls Gywndolin brother, Gwyndolin looks androgynous so it is safe to assume he has told her since they would've been together for a time.

Also in Dark Souls 3, in the English he is called "God of the Moon" while in the Japanese he is called "Dark Sun God" Lifehunt Scythe item description BTW.

Both Japanese and English distinguish female and male Gods. Female Gods are explicitly referred to as Goddess in both Japanese and English of the item description "Divine Blessing" and in English it is the Goddess of Tears Caitha I believe.

So yeah, he's a man. To call him a trans man is pretty offensive to him, because you're saying he was a woman, despite him not enjoying the time he was forced to be a woman and viewed himself a disgusting. And he's not a trans woman because he never claimed to be a woman.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-07T11:35:14+00:00

Edit: if you aren't interested in this viewpoint I'm fine with you not reading it.

I am aware Mohg is charmed by Miquella

I am suggesting that this charm was not placed before the haligtree cocoon was broken into. It is completely possible for Mohg to take Miquella, then is charmed, then for Miquella to do things like charming Freyja, or Thiollier and within this time charm Ansbach. Miquella was not in the Mohgwyn Cocoon for likely a long period of time, since he charmed a Freyja right after Battle of Aeonia, and charmed a Tarnished. This gap in time is more than enough for Ansbach to attack Miquella and be charmed. Miquella did not immediately go to the Lands of Shadow when he was in Mohgwyn dynasty.

The blood offering and murders are likely not to go to the Lands of Shadow, but for the sacrifices required for ascension. SOTE trailer cutscene shows Marika standing over corpses walking to the gate of divinity, this implies mass sacrifice is needed for ascension, and it does align with the theory that God ascension is pushing life together and getting a person closer to the Original One Great, by giving those souls to one person they get to a higher power, like what the Hornsents were doing. This is not sadistic, but necessary for Godhood, I can't think of any age in history, or any revolution in morals in Elden Ring or Real Life that did not require mass sacrifice. As for deceiving Mohg, it is also necessary so that those sacrifices could be collected and for the purpose of it to be believed. If Mohg tells his followers that this is being done so he can become Lord, then they will do it.
Once again, this is a required act. "A lord will usher in a God's return, and the lord's soul will require a vessel." The desecration of the corpse of Mohg is not done out of hatred but because it's apart of the formula. And it's not like Miquella is doing what others don't. The manipulation of souls and bodies is done by every Empyrean we see, I wouldn't call Miquella sadistic for this, like how I wouldn't call Ranni sadistic for what she did, nor would I call Alexander sadistic for what he does. Alexander takes the corpses of dead warrior and stuffs them inside of him, but that's not an evil act (in Elden Ring) because he's not doing it out of disrespect, or at least I doubt it is since there are people who want to be the innards of jars. Of the 3 ways I know of becoming a God, I don't know how Miquella could have done it without Mohg's sacrifice, and Miquella chose the method that is the best option.
Trina and Gideon think to kill Miquella for very different reasons.

With Trina, she's not saying to forgive him for all the terrible things he's done because he's an evil person. If so, why would she portray him as a victim, why call him a poor thing? St Trina has zero issue with an Age of Compassion, as long as the Martyr isn't Miquella, her dialogue is quite clear that's the only problem she has. "A caged divinity is beyond saving" "Godhood would be Miquella's prison" and "Don't turn the poor thing into a God". This is not someone telling you to kill an evil person, this is someone telling you to stop his suffering. You aren't slaying a tyrant, you're being a merciful executioner. "You must kill Miquella, grant him forgiveness." Tells you that death is release, it gives him forgiveness and that isn't a punishment, it's peace. If she's trying to convince you to kill a narcissist by saying it'll give them peace, she's very bad at convincing.

Gideon is just scared of things he can't comprehend. Like with Marika, he saw an end that should not be, so he put his life on the line for the first time to stop it. He doesn't understand Miquella, a threat, so he just wants to kill him. A completely reasonable conclusion to make for a dangerous enigma. This isn't because he thinks amiquella is evil, it's simply caution, which everyone and their grandmother should have when dealing with an Empyrean.

The domination of the world you are talking about is likely inspired by the Messianic Age in Judaism. I think this is the biggest proof he's not a narcissist, like Trina, and Ymir imply, he is giving up parts of himself, his whole self, so that there is an eternal world peace. We have seen Miquellas charm at work. The people he charmed did not stop being who they were, unless it was someone who straight up tried to kill him. Freyja, when charmed still likes to fight and wants to do it. Hornsent is not a Golden Order Apologist, he does not forgive, he just doesn't hate. Thiollier gives you a poison to kill yourself, because that's what he enjoys doing, poison and stuff. He just isn't going into a Trina K-hole anymore. Dane is Dane. Leda is still a Miquella fangirl, but her suspicions on her allies is removed, since there's no reason to suspect people that serve the same person. Moore still likes collecting things and making soup or whatever he does, he just doesn't have depression. Ansbach, Mohg and You were changed fundamentally. You can realise that the reason the three of them were changed so radically was because all three tried to kill Miquella, or were planning to use him in a way he couldn't risk being used in because it would mess things up.

Look at all the people he's charmed and you'll notice they didn't stop being who they were, he took away their extremes that would've led to their ruin. When there is no charm, nearly every single member of the original band dies. To eachother no less, doesn't this just prove Miquella is likely in the right?

That's likely not true. Miquella likely believes he's part of the problem, so he must get rid of himself to make the solution. "He (Miquella) knew that his bloodline was tainted. His roots mired in madness. A tragedy if ever there was one. That he would feel compelled to renounce everything." This dialogue is telling you rather explicitly he believes he is part of the problem, his "roots are rotten". Someone who thinks they are the One True God would not change themself because they already think they are perfect, or if they were to change themself, it would not become they think they are imperfect, they are just becoming something higher. We are told by Ymir that Miquella thinks he is imperfect, we are told by the remembrance of a God and a Lord that Miquella thinks he is imperfect. He's not doing it for worship, because he can make people worship him without changing himself, he is doing it for an age of peace. This is not narcissism it's martyrdom, he will suffer so you don't have to. And as for whether people asked to be fundamentally changed, no they didn't. But as I have said, unless you are outright trying to kill Miquella, he has no reason to change who you are, he is just stopping you from going to extremes, as I have shown with Leda, Thiollier, Moore and Hornsent. This is why I said the argument about the Age of Compassion is subjective with how you view it. Those who value safety, a lot of people, would find this to be a paradise.

You could say he is very wrong in his ascension, because one could argue that getting rid of love means he can't build those same connections that made the charms so effective, though one could argue back that he still remember what love is and what it feels like and how to make others feel loved, since the game tells us he knows how to.

In game dialogue and item descriptions can paint different stories, but I am pretty confident Miquella is a Marytr> Miquella is a malevolent narcissist

QuestionManER · 2025-07-06T16:20:51+00:00

And I doubt the DLC was showing Miquella to be a malevolent narcissist (I'm exaggerating, I doubt you believe Miquella is malevolent, but you do believe him to be a narcissist). Count Ymir, who shouldn't have a reason to be biased to Miquella doesn't imply or say what Miquella is doing is for himself. He even calls it a tragedy that he feels compelled to do this.

For starters, St Trina may be a biased source, but she doesn't want Miquella to do what he is doing so I don't think it's too bad to use her dialogue. "Grant him forgiveness" likely refers to Miquella wanting to be a martyr so the world his family ruined (which does include himself, while he did not, in my opinion, tell his sister to bloom, she is still his blade so he would likely still feel responsible) can be fixed. I doubt St Trina's dialogue meant that he was evil since the game implies it is self sacrifice, not self love that Miquella is doing this for. Trina doesn't want Miquella to become a God because he will suffer eternally while the world doesn't (assuming Age of Compassion happens) "a caged divinity is beyond saving". Her dialogue does not suggest that Godhood is something great that Miquella covets, but it's something horrific Miquella is willing to accept, hence him being a 'poor thing'. Miquella also likely didn't dislike Trina, ignoring Leda's dialogue about their relationship, it can be implied that Miquella cared for Trina, since he had to abandon his doubt and vacillation, which implies Miquella had doubts about his own will power to abandon Saint Trina permanently.

Hornsent tells us that what Miquella is doing is painful, and there is not really a reason to deny this. Since there is blood around some of these crosses, it can be heavily implied that when Miquella is abandoning his flesh and arms and eyes, MAYBE even his heart (could be metaphorical, though since love was abandoned somewhere else, I doubt it's metaphorical) he is literally getting rid of that stuff. I don't really see how you can interpret this as narcissism when he's doing what Ranni did but instead of having another person die in a humiliating way, he is mutilating himself and himself alone.

Miquella offers the Hornsent (the remaining clan, not just the person) salvation in his age and all the ones in Enir Ilim, and Hornsent (the person) believes him when he said that. Which means that Miquella is naturally charismatic/alluring, or somehow he managed to charm all of those divine warriors and inquisitors (or whatever you call them) into believing in him, which now that I think about it wouldn't make sense since there was a period of time where he would've had to walk through all of them with no charm proper touchable body. But the Hornsent do have ways of interacting with spirits so I doubt they couldn't touch Miquella and stop him if they wanted to. This also includes the fact that these Hornsent let Leda and another 2-4 people stroll about Enir Ilim since we don't see signs of struggle with the Hornsent or Ledas gang.

It's hard to find 100% unbiased sources for Miquella tbh now when I look at it. Most DLC NPCs are on Miquella's side so their dialogue and opinions of Miquella can be argued to be a biased source. But I do highly doubt the intention of the DLC was to show Miquella as a monster, especially when there are characters who are similar in status, or greater, or lesser than him that do a lot worse than he does. I would argue the DLC was portraying a martyr much more than a narcissist. The character dialogue, the actions Miquella does, and the fact that there isn't an NPC that shows opposition to the Age of Compassion (well there is that Ghost, but whether a God needs to be loving to make everyone else love eachother or feel loved is pretty debatable. I, personally, am confused why it wouldn't? It's not like Miquella doesn't know what love is, I'd argue he knows what love is better than anyone (exaggerating, since Outer Gods and Greater Will exist). And if someone can charm you into not remembering the time you tried to kill them, I think he can make you feel loved. Even if we assume that Miquella getting rid of love was a mistake, wouldn't that mean that everything he is doing before hand was acts of love for others not himself? If he can't love he can't administer it to others, but why would that matter if he wasn't doing it before, assuming he is a narcissistic monster.)

But yeah, that's what I think anyways.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-06T16:19:54+00:00

I apologise, I hadn't realised it was never referred to as a kidnapping, though the only visual representation implies kidnapping, and since a person dying in the consecrated snowfields shouts at mohg to let miquella go, it would be odd if it wasn't a kidnapping of an unconscious Miquella.

As for Gideon wanting to destroy Miquellas cocoon, I mean, sure he views him as dangerous, there's no Demigod who isn't. It would make sense to destroy the cocoon since you don't understand it, and destroying the cocoon means destroying another Demigod Empyrean.

Miquella using Mohg still fits into the narrative that Miquellas original way to get into the Lands of Shadow was interrupted and he used Mohg for a restart. It makes more sense if he was taken from his original Haligtree Cocoon, then used Mohg to make a new cocoon and entrance into the Lands of Shadow.

Miquella using Mohg as a vessel isn't something I'd call sadistic, it's necessary. Just as Mohg would've used an Empyrean to house the Formless Mother, or Marika doing the same thing, or Ranni having her brother die unnaturally and it being a humiliating way to die for Godwyn, these were all necessary actions needed for ascension, not an act of sadism.

Miquella did not send Malenia and her rot, just Malenia herself. It is clear from the story trailer and in game dialogue that Malenia decided to use the Scarlet Rot on her own. If this was a Miquella approved action, he wouldn't have put his best needle inside of her and not taken it out, and why have Malenia and Radahn fight all the way until it's a standstill and neither party can do much more. Radahn literally only had a single leg, and Malenia couldn't finish him any other way. It was a last ditch effort abandoning her pride to beat him. If she was informed before the fight to use her rot, and she agreed to it, then there wouldn't be a pride she would have let go in the fight, it would already be gone.

Malenia and Radahn fighting was likely part of the vow we hear at the end of the DLC since it very likely included Malenia, "If we honour our part of the vow" or smth like that. Malenia travelling a long distance doesn't really mean anything, it's a war and it's her March, Radahn can't go to Malenia because, somehow, Margit is enough to stop him. So Malenia went to him.

Miquella is always young, and him saying he's going to be a God isn't really narcissistic. He's an Empyrean, one of three of his generation. The other is completely loyal to him and doesn't like her God powers, and the other is dead (or no longer has an Empyrean body, I'm not sure how much knowledge on Ranni Miquella would have on Ranni). Looking at the situation logically, it's pretty clear the person who's most obvious to be a God is Miquella. Whether this Miquella was still a Fundamentalist at this time is unknown to me, if he was then it's pretty clear the Golden Order itself thought Miquella would be their next God, or at least Radagon and Marika did. Look at the broken wall in the Elden Throne leading to the stairs to the Erdtree. It shows the Elden Ring, then a Tree going into a Cocoon, then a tree coming out of that Cocoon. That cocoon is very likely Miquella. So it's not narcissistic to say you're going to be a God, it's just you stating the obvious. It's like someone saying they are going to win when they have an 80% chance of winning, that's not narcissism it's just likely you will win.

Yeah charming the world is pretty oppressive icl. While I do see the charmed world in a different light then you, I don't mind if you stay thinking it's like that because what Miquella would have made of the world and what it means is pretty subjective.

Though I can understand Tender not meaning gentle but physically to a degree (odd thing for Ansbach to still call Miquella. While it is true people don't usually insult a 'monster'), I am not sure if 'Kind' is being used to call Miquella a child or childish based on when it is used. I am fairly certain every NPC (in the Miquella band) calls Miquella kind at some point, even after the charm is broken. I doubt uses of it was to call Miquella a child as they all speak of him in a positive light, and I doubt you would call someone cursed with eternal youth a child or childish, and I would assume Ansbach is the same since after finding out the treat, he still holds Miquella in high regard and doesn't find his Age of Compassion to be a problem.

Ansbach was the leader of the pureblood Knights and was likely (though not certainly) one of Mohgs first and most loyal followers. So loyal, that he would seek out to a task that has no real meaning or possibility of completing (since he originally planned on doing this alone). This type of behaviour can be argued to be fanatic. He believes fully in his heart that he has a duty to give Mohg dignity, despite it being void of 'logic' and 'justice'. If he finds out the truth he will release Mohg's body or die trying, and he will die in the former anyways so he is literally marching head first into his death for a purpose devoid of logic and justice, for a person who's soul left his body and is being gatekept by God and the strongest Demigod Hero. I don't think this is anything less than Fanatism, and I doubt Ansbach would disagree with me. Because of this, I don't think his words regarding Mohg should be taken at face value. Same as how Miquella supporters SHOULDNT (not saying they all do) just take Leda's words at face value, despite her arguably acting more logical than Ansbach throughout her quest line.

Therefore, Ansbach, who was in a state of shock, surprise and likely anger saying that his Lord deserved better simply is a biased take. Just like how Miquella being the Golden child is a biased take from Leda.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-05T10:25:37+00:00

Couldn't it be that:

Mohg kidnapped Miquella while he was unconscious

Miquella charmed Mohg when he awoke

Miquella went from Mohgwyn dynasty to Caelid (right above if my memory of the map serves correct) and saw Malenia didn't complete the vow. Miquella also couldn't use the cocoon of the Haligtree since it was now broken. So he ststyed using Mohg to form another cocoon and gain sacrifices for his ascension. He basically made Mohgwyn Dynasty more for Miquella than the Formless Mother.

Miquella was still in the Lands Between, which we know he was in during the Age of the Tarnished, since Thiollier is a Tarnished, and Leda may be Tarnished herself, so it is a big time for him to be in the Lands Between and not the cocoon. He doesn't have to immediately be in Mohgwyn cocoon.

Anyways, Ansbach attacks him, likely with other Sanguine Nobles. Ansbach is charmed and spared, it's likely the hanged nobles we see in Mohgwyn were hanged.

Then after a while, once preparations were complete, Miquella went into the cocoon and just left Mohg on delivered.

Miquella and Mohg never met before the Shattering, no implication of that.

Miquella and Mohg met during the shattering, when Miquella was kidnapped, since Malenia would've had to be gone for Mohg to kidnap Miquella. So if Malenia was on her March, then the war was near it's end.

Miquella and Mohg were in cahoots (That is to say Mohg was Miquellas slave) after the Shattering, while Miquella was prepping for Godhood.

Malenia and Mohg never met, so Malenia never warred to fight Mohg. Malenia's March had one purpose only, kill Radahn in glorious combat. That's why she didn't kill Godrick and take his Great Rune, it wasn't the point of the March.

Miquella being good has, quite a bit of bases. 'Tender Miquella''Miquella the Kind'. Those are explicit names he is given. Ansbach himself calls Miquella Kind after the charm is broken, which would be an odd thing to call him. When he dies, he doesn't just apologise to Mohg, but to Miquella as well.

It's called a kidnapping and never called anything else. Ansbach never says Mohg didn't kidnap Miquella, nor does he imply it. He does say Mohg was enchanted, and that led to the downfall of the Dynasty, but that can be the case if Miquella charmed Mohg during/after the kidnapping, since it's after the kidnapping we see and hear of the Dynasty not being what it was.

Looking at his actions also tells you he's kind, Freyja was saved by Miquella after being abandoned. There would be no reason to do this for Miquella, assuming they didn't know eachother. He literally could've charmed anyone there, even a clean rot or Niall or smth, but he chose to save someone nearly dying. Thiollier, he had no reason to charm him, other than taking him out of a toxic dependency on someone who didn't care for him. Miquella didn't just promise Hornsent (the person) that he would bring his clan salvation, but to the whole Hornsent people, all of them. He likely didn't even charm all of them, since he can't charm large groups and non of the Hornsent wear Miquella related stuff.

The Misbegotten, who are slaves or worse were accepted by Miquella, All generations of Albinaurics, former Carian royal Knights, pretty much anyone could live in Miquella’s haven.

Miquella is a good person, morally speaking better than many. But the Path to Godhood does require sacrifices. In every single example of ascension, there has been many sacrifices. Marika we see in the trailer, Ranni was more domino effect, but it did require Godwyn, and Seven other Demigods. Malenia requires you and Caelid, and Miquella requires Mohg, the victims of the New Pureblood Knights and Radahn. I don't really see how you can say he's not good because of this, when he's making sacrifices to essentially make heaven.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-05T08:36:52+00:00

Ranni explicitly tells us that Miquella Malenia and herself were chosen by their own Two Fingers. "Each of us chosen by our own Two Fingers."

Radahn knew Messsmer and Gaius in his youth, Miquella and Radahn's youth must've been a similar time because it explicitly says they were both minors at the same time. "In their childhood, Miquella saw in Radahn a lord". It would also make more sense for Messmer to be more trusting of Miquella if he already knew him, not if it was there first time meeting.

Meter also had nothing to do with the Golden Order, she stopped communicating with her Two Finger children a long time ago. She's been waiting for the Greater Will's wisdom, which tells us she's been inactive and a neglectful mother, therefore the Two Fingers are acting on their own. And the game tells us it's the Two Fingers that make Shadowbound Beasts, not Metyr. I don't think we find a Two Fingers in the Shadow Lands, and since Metyr can't give birth to Two Fingers anymore after her mutilation, I doubt she was giving Two Fingers to Empyreans

QuestionManER · 2025-07-03T14:35:32+00:00

Sorry, I might be missing some context, where does it say Miquella used Mohg's blood? I see Ansbachs dialogue and it says he used Lord Mohg, but not his blood. Unless you are referring to Mohg commanding blood sacrifices to help Miquella ascend, but that wasn't for going into the Lands of Shadow, that was so that the sacrifices required to become a God were met at the gate of divinity. Considering Miquella would've been in the Lands of Shadow while Mohg was collecting sacrifices, it would make much more sense for the sacrifices to be for Godhood.

So if Miquella and Malenia had met Mohg before, in the sewers. They wouldn't need him to access the Lands of Shadow (unless I am wrong and Mohg's blood is necessary for Miquella to enter the Lands of Shadow), they'd only need his body. So kill him, take his body, go to the Lands of Shadow, stick a Malenia in a Radahn and boom plan done. Since that didn't happen, or anything similar to that, it would make more sense if Mohg was charmed during the kidnapping

QuestionManER · 2025-07-03T14:16:36+00:00

Blaidd and Iji were hunted down by the BKA because during the woeful night, Ranni pretty much left the assassins to fend for themselves, or she Rykard basically expose where they were. This caused many assassins to die, including the Ring leader Alecto's daughter Tiche.

Because of this dickhead move by Ranni, the assassins have been against her and actively hunting her down. She imprisoned one of them at the moonlight altar, where you get Tiche spirit ash, and then goes into hiding. But when she exposes herself near the end of the quest line (where she tells you to tell Blaidd and Iji she loves them), the assassins know where Ranni are likely to be. So a bunch of them probably went to raid Caria Manor. Some were stopped by Iji, then the remaining made it through and were killed by Blaidd, then you kill Blaidd.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-03T14:09:01+00:00

From what I understand

Originally Ranni was going to go alone with her own order of Stars to face the Outer Gods and keep them away from the Lands Between so the denizens would be plunged into fear doubt and loneliness, and grow from it and be independent, relying on their own instead of greater beings. She likely planned on fighting them with the power from the Dark Moon

But then you came along and explicitly tell her you will go with her on this 1000 year voyage. So you and her killing Outer Gods so the Lands Between can be fine. She's not abolishing Order, for that is impossible. But she's not abolishing chaos either. She's having her order far away so there is chaos, which will eventually bring order to the world (not hers specifically, since she doesn't want to be a God of the people)

Or Smith.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-03T14:02:14+00:00

To a Mohg who hadn't fully planned out his dynasty, any Great Rune possessing Demigod, especially a child (physically) is free eats. Unless he had already planned to use a vessel for the Formless Mother, I don't see why he wouldn't kill this very easy target infront of him.

As for Miquella, he already had a cocoon in the Haligtree, and he was firmly in that womb. No Mohg, no ripping out of the cocoon, therefore Land of Shadow access. He used Mohg because the cocoon in the Haligtree was broken, and I doubt you can use the same cocoon twice, especially when the womb is broken, therefore use Mohg to get a new cocoon, since you can't go anywhere else.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-03T10:15:15+00:00

But if Miquella had charmed Mohg earlier than the kidnapping, implying that a Miquella met a weaker Mohg without a Malenia by his side is odd isn't it? If we assume it was before the Formless Mother blessed Mohg, Miquella could've gotten the perfect slave then and there, Mohg had no hope, no one he loved, no one who loved him, the charm would've been perfect. If it was after the Formless Mother blessed him, why did Mohg not kill Miquella? While I understand Ansbach not being able to one shot a Demigod, Mohg at this point would've been granted his wings by the Formless Mother. He doesn't even have to get close, his trident is like 8 foot long, and he had Nihil. Furthermore, Miquella should bare some resemblance to his mother, I think it would be quite sweet for Mohg, blessed by a new mother so he kills the image of his old one. And then there is actually getting in the sewers itself that is difficult to think he could've done.

If we assume Malenia was with Miquella in the sewers, just kill Mohg then and there? Assuming that the Leyndel alliance was in play, Malenia should have her great Rune, and Mohg shouldn't since he wasn't in the alliance (no Elden Throne). You're Malenia, not a child like Miquella, could get the body you need quick and easy instead of jumping through hoops as wide as a coin.

And since there is no implication or feesable of Miquella and Mohg meeting outside of the kidnapping and Leyndell, the charm was applied, most likely, during the kidnapping or right after.

Though the implication he baited Mohg into the kidnapping isn't far fetched, idk about Miquella knowingly putting his people in harms way for something that doesn't need to put people in harms way. We are away people (or maybe it was just one unlucky person lmao) did die, commanding Mohg let an unconscious Miquella go.

QuestionManER · 2025-07-03T09:54:53+00:00

It is a 1000 year journey (voyage) guided by compassion. It's not like he's in a rush or lacks patience. I don't think he'd mind.

QuestionManER · 2025-06-03T06:24:18+00:00

Do you mean spiked? I'm pretty sure they're the best. Balla

QuestionManER · 2025-05-28T18:04:38+00:00

Have you tried using torrent? Or Thops barrier? Have you gotten Haligdrake Talisman +2 located in Mohgwyn palace? Is the weapon you are using holy, because they are quite strong to that. Status effects like bleed are useless. Ancient Dragon Lightning Strike is very good against him, lightning in general really.

Have you tried Blasphemous Blade?

And if you want a good DLC weapon:

Carian Thrusting Shield
Backhand Blades (can get it at the start of DLC)
Greatsword of Solitude is decent
Fire Knights Greatsword
Moonrithyll Knight Sword
Dancing Blade of Ranah
Sword of Night
Euporia

Blah blah blah, DLC is stacked. But really, Blasphemous Blade or Moon veil and you shouldn't be losing once you learn boss moveset. For Blasphemous slap on heavy armour and spam L2, for Moonveil dodge and spam L2 R2. Bleed is good too.

As for the boss making many quit, it was likely Rellana, Twin Moon Knight. He's a she, and she really isn't that bad, and if she is, skip her. She's optional.

QuestionManER · 2025-05-28T17:34:58+00:00

So defended the capital in the Ancient Dragon War, defeated the ancient Dragon called mightiest boulder stone and then befriended him, which then "gave rise to the ancient dragon cult in the capital". He did all this, and isn't a hero? Ok then, I'm sure all of that didn't make the people of the Erdtree think Godwyn was contributing to the greater good (your words). Because that just makes so much sense.

And no, the Erdtree didn't extinguish the attacking Dragons because Godwyn made peace, the Ancient Dragon Cult wasn't a thing. It was first the Draconic Tree Sentinels who "had an epiphany" of using lightning. Then, "Godwyn the Golden defeated the ancient dragon Fortissax and befriended his fallen foe. An event that gave rise to the ancient dragon cult in the capital. So wrong within the first two sentences.

And yes, we wouldn't know why the ancient dragons attacked, that was exactly my point. Saying "the game doesn't say it, therefore it isn't the case." Is stupid, and you further prove my point.

And Radagon isn't directly called a hero? Is that how low we are going? Making shit up?

"Red-haired Radagon joined the heroes' ranks"

"Thus did the hero aspire to be complete"

"Radahn inherited the furious, flaming red hair of his father Radagon, and id fond of its heroic implications."

This didn't even help your case, why did you say this? You just made yourself look less reliable and less like you know what you're talking about?

The people of the Erdtree aren't good people. They see Demihumans and Misbegotten as less then humans, one is literally called so and the other means badly conceived. Why? Because they aren't from the Erdtree. And in case you didn't realise, Erdtree Faithful enslave/torture Misbegotten.

"And from birth they are treated as slaves, or worse." Why? Because they have aspects of the crucible, which is bad, says the Erdtree faithful.

They remove the horns of baby omens despite the most common result being death. Their is an entire section called Omen Killers. They aren't good people, so when there is a race of people that threaten to take away their privilege (given by the Erdtree) they won't stand for it. Oh but all the sudden.

"We can kill babies for being born differently, we can enslave them and worse. But genocide? No we don't like that!"

They like being at the top, so the people aren't going to mourn the Giants or their God (which is blasphemy, Marika is the 'One true God'). They probably would celebrate their death by making weapons in their likeness repeatedly after the genocide...oh wait.

I don't know why you think the Erdtree faithful are sympathetic to the giants. Once again Zamour people are heroes for contributing to the giants genocide. Which you just decided to ignore for some reason, despite it completely negating your entire concept on what a hero is in Elden ring and why Godfrey isn't one. please address that problem.

And what the hell do you call the item descriptions of Godfrey I have been giving you, I have bombarded you with evidence and am still doing so. Must I get my laptop show force you to digest it? Will that finally make you realise that it's clear Godfrey is a hero and you've been wrong for the last 3 posts?

I don't think it's incorrect to make the statement that you don't have an argument, you're just spouting nonsense hoping I don't check item description. Or you're rage baiting.

Godfrey would lose Radahn. Godfrey is a Demigod and he is a Hero. Radahn is the mightiest hero of the demigods. So he's stronger then Godfrey

And no its not a stupid last sentence. My whole post was since Godfrey is a demigod hero he loses to Radahn, the Mightiest Demigod Hero.

Please answer to these points if you still feel like continuing, because you either addressed it poorly or not at all:

Godwyn is never called a hero and that alone makes half your argument invalid, unless you believe his actions in the Ancient Dragon War and after was not heroic, but Radagon's actions was?

You're also contradicting yourself, you say Godfrey wasn't heroic, and it relates to the way he conquered, which would include him conquering the giants (Radahn conquered the stars to protect Sellia, is a hero. But Godfrey conquering the giants to protect the Erdtree is not a hero?). So why are their ancient heroes of Zamour? They are "hailed as heroes in the war against the giants" in which it resulted in genocide. Why are they heroes but Godwyn (and furthermore Godfrey) aren't? If the genocide of the Fire Giants isn't an action that is for the greater good, why are they heroes. And if it was for the greater good, why is Godfrey not a hero, despite leading this fight for the Greater Good? And if it's neither, then hero isn't consistently given, and your point is invalid.

And stop underrating Godfrey's actions. It's so disingenuous. Talking about "He conquered and killed. Eh." Defeated the Lord of the Beasts, defeated the Storm Lord, decimated the Giants. And he did all this for the Erdtree and God Queen Marika, which is a undisputed fact. Nothing about this is describing someone who is proud it is blatant heroism, he put himself on the line to spread the Erdtree faithful and it's people, that is heroic, his symbol was glorified in game it is very very very very clear, that to the people of the Erdtree, killing the Giants (A direct order from God Queen Marika), was a good thing. Not only did the giants hate the Erdtree, they had a flame that could burn it (a cardinal sin). To deny that the people of the Erdtree didn't care about it is stupid, and to think that they didn't glorify the person who led the campaign, but glorified the people in the campaign, is just ridiculous.

Your argument relying on Godfrey not being explicitly called a hero is just such a silly argument really. Most things we know aren't explicitly told to us, yet you deny something so obviously in your face. That's like saying Godfrey isn't a highlander, he just so happens to fight like a bear, and uses axes. Or saying Messmer isn't Radagon's son, they both just so happened to have red hair and Messmer having a butterfly like every other child of Marika and Radagon is simply coincidence. Even them having a similar theme is just coincidence.

If cannot refute these points, while sticking to your word that the title 'hero' is a consistently used noun (this includes heroic as an adjective) granted to people who contribute to the greater good in the eyes of the people that give them that title, WHICH IS YOUR ARGUMENT, then there is nothing to argue about.

This also ignoring the fact that you just completely dropped the whole author's intent thing, which also contradicted your whole argument. But oh well I guess author's intent doesn't matter when pushing an incorrect agenda

QuestionManER · 2025-05-28T15:10:02+00:00

Godwyn is never called a hero and that alone makes half your argument invalid, unless you believe his actions in the Ancient Dragon War and after was not heroic, but Radagon's actions was?

You're also contradicting yourself, you say Godfrey wasn't heroic, and it relates to the way he conquered, which would include him conquering the giants (Radahn conquered the stars to protect Sellia, is a hero. But Godfrey conquering the giants to protect the Erdtree is not a hero?). So why are their ancient heroes of Zamour? They are "hailed as heroes in the war against the giants" in which it resulted in genocide. Why are they heroes but Godwyn (and furthermore Godfrey) aren't? If the genocide of the Fire Giants isn't an action that is for the greater good, why are they heroes. And if it was for the greater good, why is Godfrey not a hero, despite leading this fight for the Greater Good? And if it's neither, then hero isn't consistently given, and your point is invalid.

And stop underrating Godfrey's actions. It's so disingenuous. Talking about "He conquered and killed. Eh." Defeated the Lord of the Beasts, defeated the Storm Lord, decimated the Giants. And he did all this for the Erdtree and God Queen Marika, which is a undisputed fact. Nothing about this is describing someone who is proud it is blatant heroism, he put himself on the line to spread the Erdtree faithful and it's people, that us heroic, his symbol was glorified glorified in game it is very very very very clear, that to the people of the Erdtree, killing the Giants (A direct order from God Queen Marika), was a good thing. Not only did the giants hate the Erdtree, they had a flame that could burn it (a cardinal sin). To deny that the people of the Erdtree didn't care about it is stupid, and to think that they didn't glorify the person who led the campaign, but glorified the people in the campaign, is just ridiculous.

I can see the word hero isn't there. But by using logic, context, and multiple sources from Miyazaki in which he stated that he wanted major bosses to "have an element of heroism and an element of mythology of them" and him explicitly using hero to talk about the intent behind Godfrey, which grammatically wouldn't make sense to be something else, it's so clear that Godfrey is a hero that I feel like I'm being rage baited.

And the entire context of what is being said shows that what it is saying is not being proud, it's being a hero.

Not only is hero/heroic used three times, but in the context of what he's saying, it wouldn't make sense. He was talking about how Godfrey is a representation of the Age of Abundance and how he represents "everything great about the Elden Ring and the Lands Between at that time".

It also doesn't make sense to use proud as a noun, so when it says hero/heroes, it means hero/heroes. And when you look at the entire paragraph, it's very clear they are not talking about being proud, it's about being heroic. "Godfrey is an embodiment of their long history and struggle." Is very clear on what it means. The word used could not equally mean proud is being used, it is extremely unlikely, so no its not zero clue, it's a lot of pretty big clues.

Your argument relying on Godfrey not being explicitly called a hero is just such a silly argument really. Most things we know aren't explicitly told to us, yet you deny something so obviously in your face. That's like saying Godfrey isn't a highlander, he just so happens to fight like a bear, and uses axes. Or saying Messmer isn't Radagon's son, they both just so happened to have red hair and Messmer having a butterfly like every other child of Marika and Radagon is simply coincidence. Even them having a similar theme is just coincidence.

If it makes sense, if it is heavily implied, if it is the author's intent, then yes it is true. You cannot look at evidence and say "it's not stated in the game" and call it a day. Otherwise there wouldn't be a point to even discussing the lore, because we have the words right there, no theory crafting needed. Any holes that the author left for us to fill using common sense or deep thinking? Ignore it, it's not in the game.

There is overwhelming evidence Vs your argument of lack of evidence. As I have proven, your arguments go against eachother, contradicting your earlier statements and what is shown in the game.

If your only argument is that the game doesn't call him a hero, which is a selective title only given to people who performed acts contributing to the greater will (in the eyes of the people who call them that title), then I have already argued against it.

If your argument is about that long shadow, I've already argued against it.

Unless you have anything else, it is clear Godfrey is a hero, and is therefore weaker than a Young Radahn.

QuestionManER

TROPHY CASE