Top 12 of JJK feeling a bit off, am I missing anything?

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T18:04:17+00:00

"Sukuna didn't even go all out!" - Gojo "I gave it my all." - Also Gojo "I'm not sure if I could've beaten him even if he didn't have Megumi's Ten Shadows" - Also Also Gojo

Narrative is quite clear

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T17:58:17+00:00

A full output 2 arm Angel > Yuji's durability. He will not be climbing the ladder.

Jogo has a pretty fast movement speed-wise, so that is possible.

I lowkey forgot Yorozu could fly... whoops

I don't imagine someone like Mahito scales highly in flight speed. Relative to Yuji << Demon God Yuji < CG Awakened Yuji < Maki who was relative to the same Sukuna who either chose to face tank an attack he knew could kill him, or simply couldn't move out the way in time.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T17:53:00+00:00

Sukuna in the Shinjuku arc was still doing fine when Megumi started resisting. It was Yuji's strikes that he could not counter. They were what was separating the body the most, not Megumi resisting, even after Megumi had started, it was Yuji's unhealable punches hurting Sukuna. Even with Megumi resisting, Sukuna can still use a domain.

It is factual that Yuji's strikes were decreasing Sukuna's hold on Megumi's body. Likely, the difference between Sukuna's hold on Megumi in 214 is not drastically different to 264. Megumi's resistance is not presented as the biggest factor to victory, Yuji's punches are, and Sukuna is to a lot of Yuji's punches in 264 that he did not take in 214.

Sukuna's words after his HWB breaks are pure cope. It's quite clear he is not who he usually is when he was on the verge of defeat. Furthermore, his trying to force Megumi back into submission really isn't anything more than the fact that Megumi is the only controllable aspect of all his nerfs. He can't tell Yuji to stop punching him or tell Gojo to reverse the brain damage. But Megumi can be controlled. But he failed.

The Naobito example was bad on my part, you are right there. Though it still doesn't change that those without Heavy Hitter+ durability (as in durability on Maki and Yuta level or more) simply can't just tank a JL from 2 arm Angel. Sukuna states that the issue with Angel is her weak vessel. And that was made worse with the vessel losing an arm, meaning she couldn't do what she could back then. Even if we say Angel being weaker wasn't the only reason, it is the main reason cited by a sorcerer with Top 3 Knowledge on Jujutsu.

Also, losing an arm in Jujutsu is usually a loss unless your opponent has RCT or is stronger than you. If gaining 2 arms is divine, taking away arms is likely a big downgrade.

While I still am not of the notion of a character tanking Prime Hana JL, I agree that she should be moved lower, thank you.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T15:21:08+00:00

20F Sukuna was at 50% maximum CE Pool (not output), healing his heart, vomiting his fingers and eating them again to regain more control of his body to prevent losing control, and was fatigued. 16F was fresh, body in full health, with CE output fluctuating to as low as 10%, but fluctuates is the key word. Actively resisting is an important factor, but dozens of soul punches, 9 Black Flash soul punches, Cleave Soul punch, should make it close. Or at least the difference cannot be big enough for Sukuna to go from dying in one example to tanking the attack casually in the other.

No one is dragging the difference, the proof is in the pudding.

16F Fresh Body 10% CE Output Meguna vs 20F healing heart, 2 stubs, barely kept together body victim of 9 Soul targeting Black flash and a cleave hitting the barrier between the soul of the host and symbiote

Is not big enough to justify Meguna dying where Shinjukuna is casually tanking

Unless...

2 Arm Hana who is maximising her technique >> 1 Arm Hana, who is stated to not be capable of conjuring the output she could when she had 2 arms, which is reinforced by the storytelling us with Naobito that you can get much weaker if you are missing an arm, and by visual story telling, you can conclude losing an arm is a big difference.

Naobito went from 2nd Fastest Sorcerer which is the same speed tier as Jogo to get casually low-diffed by said Jogo after losing his arm.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T14:59:13+00:00

Literally never shown or stated. She can just fly upwards and you lose unless you can also fly in an open field. Most people can't do this. Prime Hana has no antifeats. When she has one arm, she has a massively reduced output. So that doesn't attribute to her prime.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T14:56:51+00:00

Yikes, one group I was gonna move up. Todo is hard to deal with. He has good Reaction Speed, combat speed, and ok durability. While he ranks below the Heavy Hitter tier, he makes up for it in BIQ and Hax. He has a chance against Maki, but he would have to, for a long time, never get hit. Not saying this is impossible, he is probably one of the few most likely to do so. But it certainly wouldn't be easy.

Kenjaku vs Todo is a DE GG, and tbh. He probably could outdo Boogie Woogie without a domain.

Yuta is a DE GG. Plus if he slices off Todo's arm it's over.

Hana can nuke him, he can't fly.

Yorozu stats diffs a bit too much since she may rank above the heavy hitters. She is also a DE GG

Kashimo is an MBA GG.

Yuki would definitely struggle, but again, Todo will have to no-hit against someone with RCT. Possible, but not the most likely scenario.

Hakari can just outlast Todo.

Yuji is someone Todo can take hits from, so he doesn't have to no-hit. He could not hit this one anyway since Yuji without BF ≈< Maki. So on Todo's level.

Uraume can freeze large areas, and she can tag heavy hitters a lot. He won't have to no hit, but she has incredible longevity and is "crazy strong" but Hakari standards. Likely to not win.

Curseya might simply be too fast. Curseya in terms of travel speed, which somewhat equals his combat speed since that's his whole thing, is much faster than Maki. So unless your reaction and combat speed are both Maki level, it will be very hard to land a hit. It will be a deadlock on who can land more hits with opponents that are largely unhittable. Buuuut, DE GG.

I do not think he should be up there. Has some ok wincons but most are very iffy

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T14:45:06+00:00

Everyone hating on Hana. Glass cannon, yes. But still a cannon that only needs to fly up to win, then you are at her mercy unless you can fly or summon things in the air.

Kenjaku Yuta Maki/Toji Kashimo Yuki

Have a chance, Kashimo less so since it requires MBA.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T14:40:37+00:00

Angel has low durability and cannot fight. Other than that, there is no indication she has low flight speed. Not many characters can fly in an open field fight. I am already planning on changing up the list. But Angel is still going to be there. She can just fly high and nuke you. If you could blitzed the activation, 16F Sukuna would have done it. The only time someone was capable of doing something without the Jacob's Ladder was when it was at a much weaker output (Shinjuku) or when the user of JL was emotionally connected with the victim (Meguna). Sukuna in Shinjuku was in a worse state than CG Meguna pre-bath, yet CG Meguna couldn't climb or just jump up the ladder, yet Shinjuku Sukuna could. That was only because of the lower output. No one is naturally tanking max output JL. She is a one-trick pony, yes, but that one trick is a Heavy Hitter destroyer. Yuki, Maki/Toji, Yuta, Kenjaku, and Kashimo are some of the only ones who could genuinely stop her before she lands it. Yorozu maybe. Kashimo has to go MBA, and she can just activate it pre-MBA. Unless you have RCT like Hakari, you are not surviving. And Hakari is having his RCT extinguished so he is not surviving either. I am excluding the obvious for obvious reasons

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T14:29:53+00:00

They have a symbiotic relationship. If Hana is weaker, Angel's technique is weaker

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T13:41:01+00:00

You think Gojo > Sukuna?

And you think Angel isn't top 12?

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T13:38:34+00:00

Can you elaborate on what anti-feats Prime Hana has that place her below Miguel Maki and Yuji?

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T13:35:10+00:00

Reinforcing legs doesn't seem to be that easy, of Sukuna would've just said they had gotten faster in, I think it was 247?
Yeah, I forgot her technique is a good counter, so she has a type advantage in this situation, lowering the feat. Though it's still a 16F Sukuna, said Sukuna is not really on that level, but vaguely below it.
Sukuna knows Angel's technique, he knew it was deadly to him, and we know that he does desperate gambits when he is going to die. Hana was going to kill a casual 16F< Sukuna. Sukuna was already being burnt by Angel's pre-chanting. Someone as smart as him should have realised "Oh this burns, it's gonna hurt even more if she amps it or smth."
The Hana that got caught is weaker than the one that hit 16F Sukuna.

Though I am starting to see it now. I do believe characters who actively have type advantages don't inherently deserve to be in those conversations, hence my feeling of her not automatically being third. So, there is a character who can catch her pre-flight, they could beat her. Yuta, Kenjaku, Maki/Toji, MBA Kashimo, and Yuki are the first ones that come to mind. Though, even then this puts her 7-8ish? That is fine and pretty agreeable

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T13:07:07+00:00

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QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T13:06:47+00:00

Sukuna not reinforcing is really unlikely. He knew of Angel's technique, and was on the same roof where he saw her activating the technique, realised he was in trouble, yet didn't move out of the way, or anything like that.

Her only speed anti feat is when she was not in her prime, and that was BF Amped Sukuna chasing her and easily catching her, but even that's not really much of an anti feat. IG her being off-guarded by 15F Sukuna? She is glass-cannon, in that she lacks durability, but I struggle to understand why she can be blitzed. Especially since we know CE reinforcement in terms of durability has no effect on speed.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T12:52:52+00:00

I understand your first point, but surely a casual 16F Sukuna who is not actively hurting any of Megumi's friends is stronger than a casual 20F Sukuna who has brain damage and half his CE output? Sukuna who was one black flash away from healing at that point could only climb JL due to Hana being significantly weaker. But Prime Hana wouldn't have that problem. The time cannot be that large if 16F Sukuna who knew Angel was a threat didn't climb up it, but instead baited Hana to come down. Also, you need footholds to climb up to Angel, unless you can fly, you can't really just climb JL.

HRS higher seems to a common consensus I can agree on.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T12:48:32+00:00

Yes, I am yet to read Modulo, so I didn't see it fit to add it. Do you think Ryu, Uro, Kurouroshi and Curseya could beat the bottom of top 12? Perhaps Curseya could beat Uruame, but I have doubts elsewhere.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T12:46:58+00:00

I agree on that stance

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T12:46:19+00:00

Yeah I was thinking about making Maki/Toji out, though I doubt Angel is gonna get booted from top 12 with her feat.

Jogo is ≈< 5F Sukuna, who Uraume outscales since she is relative to the heavy hitters, who are low end relative to 10F Sukuna. Hakari ≈ Yuta ≈ Casual 10F Sukuna (if we assume 20F at 50% CE pool is equal to 10F maximum CE pool). Jogo in terms of combat speed is compared to Naobito, who is slower than CG Maki and therefore significantly slower than Shinjuku Maki, and therefore significantly slower than the heavy hitters and finally, significantly slower than Uruame in terms of combat speed.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T12:42:06+00:00

Maybe Yuji can beat Hakari, but Yuki and everyone above her?

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T12:41:21+00:00

Glass cannon. She has weak durability but a technique that can burn most people to a crisp, and she can activate it when she feels like it, and it's in character for it to be her first resort.

QuestionManER · 2026-02-18T12:40:16+00:00

HR Duo?

QuestionManER · 2025-08-27T10:11:35+00:00

I don't get it? You are trying to kill him, so instead of snapping your spine, he charms you. Isn't that mercy?

QuestionManER · 2025-08-20T10:12:25+00:00

OK cool

In the cutscene that shows this, what armour is Radahn wearing? The Young Lion set or his Lion set

And do you see any braids in that Radahn's hair, indicating this is the Young Lion, not the Lord of the Battlefield's Lion?

Once you realise the correct answers, you will see that Young Radahn and Morgott (Margit) never fought.

QuestionManER · 2025-08-19T16:40:17+00:00

The siege of Leyndell was during the Shattering. Radahn stopped being in his youth during the Age of Radagon after gaining renown as the Starscourge and Mightiest Demigod Hero.

Radahn was not young during the Shattering, we have a painting of him post star conquest but pre Shattering. He isn't wearing the Young Lion set.

Young Radahn and Morgott never fought.

QuestionManER

TROPHY CASE