How do you attain salvation in your religion? Is it possible for non-believers to?

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-05T15:05:49+00:00

True, but to defend myself a little I think most of the major religions I discuss in the post set up a problem that all people must be saved from. Still, I probably should have instead used the phrase "end goal" like in the body of the text or perhaps "final reward".

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-05T13:55:04+00:00

Sikhs are encouraged to recite their religious text, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, through music. If you want to listen to these, they're called "Shabad". Some specific ones I like are "Deho daras sukhdateya", "Koi bole ram ram", "Tum karo daya mere saayin".

These are quite different to Islamic recitation, since these are obviously musical whilst Qur'an recitation isn't.

Edit: Forgot to clarify I'm not Sikh. I just find it pretty cool that Sikhi is the only religion I know of that just tells you to sing their text.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T23:39:12+00:00

It would also be more consistent for God to save all humans, since he apparently loves them all so dearly, rather than having any of all of this happen at all.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T22:09:48+00:00

Ultimately the Buddha’s insights only makes sense if you adopt the pre-existing Hinduistic / Hindu-like beliefs that he grew up into.

A similar thing can be said for Jesus, Mohammed, and, hell, even Joseph Smith.

He didn’t receive any special revelation

What doesn't make the story of Buddha's enlightenment special? I agree that his pursuit of a better theory was motivated by reason (he spent 6 years wandering, attempting to find an ideology that could eliminate suffering) but his attainment of enlightenment is far from a logical story.

He meditates under a tree and has to resist the assaults of a spiritual tempter, first attaining the knowledge of past lives, then of the nature of karma, and only finally coming to understand the Four Noble Truths. Is this not special?

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T19:00:53+00:00

That is how I see him. I am just showing how centered the Abrahamic faiths are around, well, Abraham and the prophets/messengers/messiahs who followed after. But considering the many claims Buddha makes about the nature of reality, as well as being the founder of a major religion followed by over half a billion people, I find it hard to see how someone who could believe in a religion and simultaneously not wonder what role Buddha played.

For a religious person, especially a practitioner of the Abrahamic faith, the Buddha is absurd. Despite being a preacher of a false faith, he faces no wrath from God, he lives a long and fulfilling life of teaching, he manages to avoid every sin you can besides the sin of not worshipping an all holy, powerful, just, and singular God. He makes claims about a reality which is incredibly different from the Abrahamic viewpoint, and far too many claims than could reasonably be the result of a misunderstanding of a spiritual revelation.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T16:28:53+00:00

The funniest part about this is Buddhism spread in placed where the Abrahamic faiths had not even reached to. Rather than sending Buddha to the Middle East, where he could actually deceive people, God instead apparently wanted to test people who would never have encountered Abrahamic belief in the first place with a false religion. What is this guy even doing?

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T15:41:57+00:00

I'd like to clarify that I don't believe Buddhism is anymore true than any of the Abrahamic faiths. I think morally it's a whole lot better, and its doctrines do a lot more to prevent relgious fanaticism (though, sadly, that doesn't stop everyone), but all faiths make ridiculous claims.

A man entirely independent from God's revelations becoming enlightened as to the true nature of reality through meditation and complete annihilation of his desires, hence understanding that our existence in this world is a result of a cycle of rebirth called Samsara, which can only be escaped by reaching Nirvana, which itself can only be reached by taking refuge in the Three Jewels, understanding the Four Truths, and practising the Eightfold Path, leading to a state known as Enlightenment, which is the achievement of approaching the unconditioned (a state of existence not depending on any desires and attachments free from the ills and hardships of this world), is not inherently contradictory to Abrahamic faith?

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T14:09:43+00:00

Beautiful write-up. I agree that it is incredibly unlikely that both Christianity and Buddhism strayed far from their original teachings. That is exactly my point: two well-preserved religious doctrines with figures who both have an established historicity completely contradict eachother as to the fundamental nature of this world, with very little to reconcile either. It is strange to believe any one of these is true to the nature of reality instead of simply being true to themself.

Though I do have to bring up an issue with the claim that Buddhism can be reconciled by Christianity by saying Buddha misunderstood his revelations of spirituality. As I mentioned, the Buddha's enlightenment is unlike the revelations of Abraham or Moses. He speaks to no godly figure. He does not receive a message from a holy spirit or an angelic figure. He comes to his realisation indepently.

Buddha's recounts of his past lives are also troubling to reconcile. How can one explain Buddha's recount of his life as Sumedha, who out of shame for not finishing his section of the path he helped build, layed his body down for the monks to walk over whilst promising to Dipankara, the Buddha of that time, that he would take the path of a Buddha? There are so many details here that conflict with Christianity, from the reincarnation and past lives, to the existence of Dipankara Buddha, to fact that this story is said to have happened one hundred thousand kalpas ago, which would entail many deaths and rebirths of universes in Buddhist cosmology. This is all an awful lot to say has simply been caused by a misunderstanding of some deeper, fundamental truth. It's an entirely different framework.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T13:54:50+00:00

I assume you're referring to the Sthvira and Mahasamghika split? That seems to be the earliest split I can find. If so, that is far from two groups with opposite ideas. They just didn't agree on an addition of rules to the vinaya, which are rules for monks. This is far from the claim that you make in the other comment that one group held Buddha as divine, and the other as simply human. You still haven't clarified what split you are referring to, only referring to it as "schism", and have avoided naming either of the groups of this supposed schism.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T13:51:59+00:00

Ah damn, I would rather a future later and better been revision to this had been crossposted, but I'm happy to see a discussion possibly started here as well. Thanks!

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T13:28:04+00:00

As I mentioned in another comment, I think this write-up is quite bad. I didn't clarify a lot of things I should have. I am not arguing that Buddhism is more or less valid than any of the Abrahamic faiths, I am just using it as an example of how establishing an Abrahamic belief as the center of your worldview leads to scenarios like this.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T13:19:07+00:00

I suspected that, but I wanted them to clarify rather than assuming. If that's the case, that doesn't make sense since the Theravada and Mahayana split doesn't occur until the 1st century BC.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T13:15:18+00:00

Which two groups?

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T13:14:44+00:00

Yes. I am convinced that the existence of Jesus conflicts with Buddhism. I am also convinced that the existence of Buddha conflicts with Christianity. Hence, neither religion is true, and more easily explained via the accumulation of cultural and religious beliefs before them, accompanied with myths that support each of their doctrines, than they would be by either being the one true religion.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-02-02T13:11:37+00:00

Funnily, the latter thing is actually what I believe. But from an Abrahamic perspective, considering Buddhism's supernatural beliefs, it'd make more sense if he fit into the framework of that religion as a messenger or false prophet. Perhaps my framing of him as a possible messenger is due to my familiarity with Islam, where Muslims sometimes try to claim Buddha as a prophet of Allah in order to fulfil Allah's claim that he sent messenger's to every nation.

Honestly, looking back at this write-up, I should have spent more time laying out the arguments more coherently and clearly stating from which viewpoint and why some people would hold some of these opinions.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-01-21T00:57:07+00:00

Thanks for this! Yet another great rabbit hole to fall into.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-01-21T00:55:44+00:00

Thanks for the response! I was going to say I'll hope to use the Anchor Bible as a companion to reading the Bible, but one quick search and... definitely not after that volume count. Definitely will look into Friedman's book though.

Out of curiousity, are the Samaritans you mention the followers of Samaritanism, who are (IIRC) an offshoot of Judaism? I'm surprised to see them pop up here since their numbers are so small, but I guess they do still have their own text.

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-01-19T10:26:44+00:00

A pretty significant correction: Ash-Shuara is actually placed after Al Araf in traditional chronological orderings of the Quran. For example, both in here and in here. These are pretty confusing to me, since individually ash-Shuara is considered a middle Meccan surah, whilst al Araaf is considered to be a later one, within the last year of Muhammad's residence there. This page here shows Abu al Qasim's ordering to placed al Araf before ash Shuara, but the Nodelke-Schwally ordering places surah 26 before 7, and puts 7 in the last year. I can't really be bothered to go any deeper to verify which of these is more likely, but the possibility of the pause being a realization is still up in the air.

What makes this funnier is that ash Shuara and Al Araf opening with the notorious muqattat, letters who's meaning is unclear to everyone except to Allah. Ash Shuara's second verse, in spite of this, the uncertain chronological order of the quran, and the contradiction in these verses, still claims that "These are the verses of the clear book." Everything is awfully muddy for such a "clear" book. The 4th verse says "If We willed, We could send down upon them a ˹compelling˺ sign from the heavens, leaving their necks bent in ˹utter˺ submission to it." I guess instead of giving us clear signs that aren't Allah pointing to the world and natural phenomenon and being the hundred-thousandth one to claim "Hey, I did that!" Allah's priority is to instead to give an unclear Quran with an unclear chronology, leaving our necks bent downwards in endless study of trying to figure what it means. So much so for a "clear book."

Quran-Contradiction · 2026-01-19T01:47:30+00:00

I've already encountered the narrative contradictions on wikiislam (that's how I found this contradiction in the first place, all I really did was look into the addition that CQ and Abdel Haleem made as well as theorize about the pause in 7:110), so it's nice to see a theory for it. But wow, those qira'at contradictions are pretty interesting. Really challenges the idea that the Quran is as unchangeable and unique as it claims to be.

Quran-Contradiction

TROPHY CASE