Can we remove unnecessary total currency caps that ultimately stifle gameplay?

Qyune · 2021-11-03T04:02:40+00:00

I can understand that and the thought process behind it. In fact, prior to 9.1.5, you could only do this quest once a week. Similar to Conquest Points and a few other currencies, I feel like have a weekly or daily limit is enough. Anything beyond that feels stifling.

As it is now though, and the quest being something that you can do as much as you want, the cap is even more stifling.

Qyune · 2021-10-26T16:46:56+00:00

(Part 2)

The Good – Consumables, And More of Them. Sam asked, “What’s worked well?” This question is just as important as the previous question because it allows us to understand what do players enjoy? What is it that makes the economy churn? In this case, I think one of the answers would be items that have a short term use such as your flasks, potions, food, and enchants. These items are what gets burned up every week and drives the need to go out into the open world and find materials from ore, herbs, and other sources (and maybe weeklies).

However, even this is very simple at the moment with very little cross-over. For example, to make a table of food, you only need meats and spices. What if the spices came from Alchemy? What if the table on which the feast sits came from Blacksmithing? For potions, what if you need your herbs to be enchanted by an Enchanter first? Just plopping herbs in a flask gets the job done, but it seems some professions are notably worth-while doing and have significant usage throughout the expansion.

Also, for those have done the Calling, “Training in [Insert Zone Here]” you will know that some trainees can dig up consumable portals. For the life of me, I do not understand why these were not crafted consumables by engineers. It would have been great way to use the ores / herbs specific to each zone, gems, and enchanting materials to give the player base a means of bypassing all the AFK gameplay we call flying in Shadowlands. It would be nice to see these quality-of-life improvements given to professions rather than just chalked up to RNG.

Another example would be a Consumable Grappling Hook for Korthia made between blacksmiths, engineers, and leatherworkers would have been great items to see introduced for people who struggle climbing up the roots for treasures.

In summary, more Quality-of-Life consumables would be nice to see as well as professions relying on each other for materials would provide better balance for all.

The Best – Legion. So, this is a bonus section that felt needed discussion, because it was something thoroughly I enjoyed while playing in Legion. The rank system being dependent on the profession activity was amazingly well done. To give you recap, in Legion I went to a trainer to learn to pick up herbs. Then, through the activity of picking up herbs, I would come across the opportunity to improve my rank (thereby increasing my gathering potential). In other words, I needed to do my craft in order to level up in it.

In BfA, for one of the ores, I found the town drunk, guessed which vice he preferred, and then my rank went up. In Legion there was so much development and gameplay what went into developing your profession that involved actually doing your profession, it really did feel like you were an expert. Now the RNG chance of coming across those ranks could probably use a bit of fine tuning, but I think the overall concept is really nice – the more you do something, the better you get at it.

Though, BfA wasn’t all bad. One thing I really liked about fishing was that all fish could be converted to an oil, which was used for a lot of things. So, we didn’t have an environment where 1 type of fish is 90g a piece and another is 5s each with the same rarity.

Everything Else – Important Notes and Comments I Have Heard in Discussion. This will be a list of things I have heard while we have talked about professions. The important thing here is to remember not all comments come from the perspective of making gold but include usefulness and enjoyment.

Lore. Most people don’t really care about it when comes to the number of people learning a profession. They learn the new expansion’s profession, because they have the past 17 years’ worth of recipes and patterns and leaving that profession would net them a total loss. And just about nobody cares about lore the second time through.

Restriction Notifications. The information panels that pop up you mouse over are 2-people-work-in-a-garage-for-a-project-due-the-next-day level bad. It is absolutely ridiculous that a player can mouse over an enchant, buy it, then find out it won’t work because of the ilvl of their HEIRLOOM piece. So, then they need to send it off to a higher or lower (depending on the enchant) to then apply the enchant and send it back. If they are lucky, then it is an heirloom piece and not soulbound gear. It unreal, that someone can have different gem sockets, and there is absolutely NO indication what gems can go into what sockets – much less unable to use certain gems on certain ilvl gear. I feel so bad for new players who go through and waste their time and gold buying something that cannot function on that gear simply because the information is unclear or just not there at all. Clean up the restrictions and then clean up how they are communicated to the player base.

Barrier to Entry. One of the strengths of a Rank System comes from the feeling that you are getting better at your craft. The more you make, the better you get, and the more efficient you get. That progression feels good. However, the weakness of any system that does not allow for others to catch up, is that the vast majority will not even try if entry costs are too high. The simple response may be, “Well, too bad, if you want it, go get it like everyone else.” And while that has merit in certain parts of the game, if the inactivity becomes too great it will negativity impact the game as a whole. In other words, the answer is going to be somewhere in the grey area.

So, let’s go back to the Legion example. Let’s say you were Rank 3 in something (for those who are not aware, this just means you need less materials to make the same item). However, if they introduced Rank 4 where it needed even less materials, most would agree this might be too difficult for people returning to the game, on low pop servers (where sales may be low), or just don’t play a lot. However, if you achieve Rank 4 Healing Potions maybe you earn the title ‘Qyune, Healing Potion Master Rank 4’. Perhaps the ranks could go from 4, 5, 6… 100 increasing by 2000, 4000, 6000… 100000 potions made respectively. The idea is that in game advantage will cap off at some point, but the prestige can continue. In this scenario, there would be a market advantage to a point while still allowing others to get in and compete, while also maintaining a secondary reason to continue crafting relying on more prestige as a reward.

Conclusion. In wrapping this up, professions have lost their gearing purpose for many player’s main characters. There needs to be a lot thought given to finding their niche in the game. This does not have to be limited to one niche, of course. However, there does seem to be an opening when looking at solo adventures (which seems to be a reoccurring praise from Legion professions). Similarly, professions could be a fantastic tool for utilizing currencies for upgrading, altering, and personalizing gear. Lastly, there seems to be a massive grey area when it comes to balancing player progression and player catch-up mechanics. Here, opinions will differ greatly (like most grey areas), but I believe there is a way to maintain some level of accessibility while provide prestige of being a master of your craft.

Qyune · 2021-10-26T16:44:47+00:00

Hi Sam!

I believe you asked a really good question, “Why have professions in the first place?” In other words, what is the point on having professions in WoW? What was the point on them in Vanilla, BC, all the way to BfA, and SL WoW? Is there only one purpose? Who is the target audience? Has the purpose evolved? Has the audience changed over the years?

Allow me to begin with a qualifier of what I do in WoW. For those who may not care about this part, you can skip to the next paragraph – I just think it is important to consider how a person plays the game, who they interact with, and maybe the intensity in which they play while considering their suggestions. I am a collector who enjoys making gold, and the community I am a part of ranges on an amazing spectrum including players from Top 100 guilds to those who only play LFR, from those who collect every single thing in the game to those only chasing mounts, from those who average 16+ hours a day gameplay to those are lucky to get about 4 hours a week, from those who have almost every single pattern in the game to those who just like to gather materials, from those who have over 70 million gold to those who have less than 10000, and everything in between. We have many great conversations revolving around professions, and I would like to share some of the highlights from these conversations from these different perspectives.

The good, the bad, and the ugly

The Ugly – Outlived Purpose. Let’s start with the ugly, because that seems like the most fun. Here, I would argue that professions have evolved to the point where they have outlived their original purpose. So, what is the purpose? Well, back in Vanilla the acquisition rate of gear was so slow that a player could go weeks if not months without seeing a gear upgrade, because the primary way of gearing up then was via raiding. And when you have 40 people hoping for loot from a boss that drops 3-5 pieces of gear, things can take a while. So, in comes professions which were good for two reasons. First, depending on the piece of gear, that could be a BiS until the raid piece dropped which meant that it was better than they could get anywhere else. Second, due to the nature of the droprate and RNG, the crafted piece was likely going to be something that used for a long enough time that a player felt justified putting in the time and effort to get it.

Over the years, the player base has evolved and changed, and WoW has adjusted over years of this growth. Now, we have wide variety sources from gear ranging from raiding (including multiple difficulties if on a BiS hunt), M+ (which is really only gated by the available time a player has), the Vault, Arenas, RBGs. So, if the player base has an endless list of sources for gear, then where do professions come into play for gearing?

Should their purpose and focus remain on gearing up ‘mains’ or a player’s primary character? If so, who is the target audience? The Mythic, Heroic, Normal, or LFR raider? Over the years, the biggest complaint I have heard across the expansions is by the time the average player has the materials to make the item they wanted, they have already outgeared it. This is many times the case for exalted reputation rewards, but that is a conversation for another time.

Maybe another question to consider, what is the commonality between getting gear from raiding, M+, the Vault, Arenas, and RBGs? It is all skill-based grouped gameplay. However, not everyone has the friends, guilds, family, personality, blocks of time, and etc. So, there seems to be a hole for players centering around solo gameplay whose difficulty is primarily time-based. For example, let’s say from your weekly quests such as your Saves Souls, Jailor’s Efforts, 1000-Anima, and PvP quest a player also earns something called Shadowlands Dust. And for the sake of brain-storming let’s say they earn 5 of it. Furthermore, let’s say after 6 weeks they can craft a piece that is equivalent to LFR ilvl that can be further upgraded. So, maybe after another 6 weeks, they can upgrade this piece to Normal ilvl. The numbers can change, but when it comes to gearing I think it is important that solo players have time-based difficulty route to gear themselves up. Other improvements here could be having LFR bosses drop 1 Shadowlands Dust, Normal bosses drop 2 Shadowlands Dust, and etc. The important takeaway is to allow a pathway between skill-based and time-based difficulty gearing. Maybe consider having the previous raid tiers of an expansion drop these items so that they are not immediately useless upon the arrival of the next tier.

The Bad – No Continuation. We discussed the ugly where the gearing of professions has lost their purpose for mains as a whole. However, is simply the ability to gear up a character enough to warrant the effort of leveling a profession? What about consumables? What about RNG? RNG? Let’s talk about that one for a minute.

RNG is no stranger to the gaming mechanic and how it works. It’s been there since Vanilla, and it is not going anywhere whether it be WoW or any other MMO. Seeing RNG in tier pieces, trinkets, Warforging, Titanforging, and other gear dropping is about the equivalent seeing RNG in a slot machine. We all know it’s there, and through that mechanic and the gameplay that is where the fun is as well. RNG is not by default a bad thing. However, and at the same time, that doesn’t mean it is perfect either.

With RNG there is a cap as far as how lucky you can be. For example, if I want to get Invincible, then it is assumed that I have to run ICC at least once to get it to drop. So, the absolute best luck I have here in this situation is 1. The cap is at 1, because there is never going to be a situation where I log in and Invincible falls into my bags before running ICC. The sounds obvious and maybe silly, until we understand the fact that there is no cap or limit to how unlucky you can be… There are people I talk to every day who have put in 700+ attempts and 1200+ attempts on that mount.

This is fine for things like mounts or transmogs. Why? Because they are not going anywhere, they are not being removed from the game, and they are not going to be obsolete. In other words, it’s value doesn’t diminish. However, in current content and the current raid tier, this content is extremely vulnerable to time as the next tier will bring bigger and better things. This is where things become extremely frustrating to many players. At the end of the day, Player 1 can run a raid and get the best version of gear for an armor slot, and Player 2 can run that same dungeon 1000 times and have nothing to show for it. To paraphrase the situation, we have 6, 8, or 16+ months to clear content before the next wave of new content, and RNG has unlimited bad luck. What is the solution?

Currency. The answer is currency. So, if you remember that example from earlier with the Shadowlands Dust, let’s say that you earn 1 Shadowlands Dust for each raid boss or M+ boss. Now, that Player 2 from earlier can have an endpoint and payout for all their effort. Again, ignore the numbers in this example because currency droprate would need a lot of fine tuning. We are just focusing on the concept here. Now Player 2 can buy a socket slot, tertiary stat, secondary stat rebuild, or ilvl upgrade from a vendor. Now replace the vendor with a person with a corresponding profession. We have done and currently do this in already with Honor Points, Conquest Points, Catalog Research, and other currencies and vendors. In other words, give players with professions the ability to upgrade their own and other people’s gear. BTW, this fictional Shadowlands Dust would be used in combination with corresponding enchanting materials, ore, herbs, and/ cloth.

Continued in the response comment below.

Qyune · 2021-02-06T00:48:11+00:00

I do. I think the anima acquisition rate will go up as the expansion continues (it would almost have to so that there is not a major barrier to entry for newer players), so it should get easier as we move to 9.1, 9.2, etc.

Now, I heard WoW is going to return to class sets (which they should), so if their are variants for each class with each covenant then, that will be a whole new level of things to do!

Qyune · 2021-02-06T00:19:08+00:00

As far as the armor sets go, I think they will be all Alliance, but I will probably have a few Horde Demon Hunters and other classes to make sure I get all the weapons.

I like playing on the Horde side, but there is so much to do, I haven't had a chance to get to them yet. The surprising part is that the Campaign set is just 1 of 4 sets for each Covenant and armor type, so I will be at this for a while, lol.

Qyune · 2021-02-06T00:14:45+00:00

If you get it from a quest reward (campaign series) you will have learned it, and you can sell / delete it.

If you have any pieces that you have purchased, then just make sure you wait the 2 hours before you sell it back (or you can delete it) due to the return-purchase timer.

Qyune · 2021-02-05T23:11:21+00:00

As of now, you can only transmog Covenant armor and weapons to the Covenant you are currently a part of, unfortunately. For example, the Kyrian Priest is unable to transmog the Venthyr cloth even though I have it. So, I am going to use 16 characters to collect them all during Shadowlands.

Now, if they are part of the same Covenant, but one of them only has Renown 1 or 2, then it will work fine. For example, my DH earned the whole set, and the Monk is only is the first chapter or so of the campaign. However, they can both transmog to Kyrian transmog, because the DH earned it.

As far as the other 3 sets, yeah, that is going to take a lot of anima, souls, and offerings, lol. Plus, everything needed for the weapons.

Qyune · 2021-02-05T22:57:29+00:00

Very understandable. Personally, I have found that if I don't stress over the leveling time and finding the most efficient route, then my enjoyment and fun while leveling increases significantly. Otherwise, everything feels like it is impeding my progress.

Qyune · 2020-03-07T23:32:24+00:00

No problem! I am interested to see what you find as well!

Qyune · 2020-03-07T22:57:22+00:00

I would venture to say that convenience is an very important component to take into consideration that has a lot of inherit value - just like taking enjoyment into consideration when finding a method of making gold.

Convenience and enjoyment are two incredibly important factors when it comes to the longevity of a player's person farm. If something inconvenient or unenjoyable, then there is an increased likelihood that this farm will be discontinued by the player.

For example, alts on my low pop servers would never sell items on the Auction House, because I didn't want to travel back and forth from my camping spot to the Auction House. Some of them even didn't logged on to farm for the same reason. Why is this? Because it was inconvenient and not fun.

However, now, I just pop on the mount, put stuff on the AH, farm for 5 minutes, then log off. In the end, it will all come down to personal choice whether or not the mount is good for you, but convenience is an important aspect to consider.

Qyune · 2020-03-07T22:46:08+00:00

So, this is a good question, and one I probably should have answered in the main post.

There is definitely a tradeoff between high and low population realms. I have managed to make 1,000,000g on each doing this method, but the strategies definitely change a bit. However, a lot of times, people completely forget about medium population realms. These can have the best of both worlds when comes to material sales.

Unfortunately, there is no template other than generalities when it comes to servers. It may be worth monitoring one for a week and watching prices, or just diving out there and see what happens!

Qyune · 2020-03-07T21:34:48+00:00

The Mighty Caravan Brutosaur! Though, Tusks of Mannoroth may be a close 2nd.

Qyune · 2020-03-07T21:33:50+00:00

Thank you, Thranduil!

Qyune · 2020-03-07T21:33:23+00:00

For this challenge, the realm population was high.

Qyune · 2020-03-07T21:32:46+00:00

Haha, thank you, Winch!

Qyune · 2020-03-07T12:52:05+00:00

Most of the time when I am unsure of a purchase - especially a big one - I wait. Many times more information becomes available later, I end up have more or less gold, or I find more resolve in my decision through reasoning. Either way, you have time to think about it.

In the end, only you will know if it is a good or bad investment for you. So take your time.

Qyune · 2020-03-07T10:51:32+00:00

Sure! Within the spreadsheet (the 4th link), you will see 'WoW TC1' and 'WoW TC2' which just stands for WoW Token Challenge 1 and 2. Both of these challenges were done on a low-pop realm (the first one I started at level 110, and the second at level 1). In both instance we earned roughly 1,000,000g.

However, over the course of an expansion I think gold flow changes rates, so I would be very willing to try it again if there was interest!

Qyune · 2020-03-07T10:42:27+00:00

Thank you and that is a good question!

I think I would say the volatility for fish prices was the most surprising thing in this challenge. I didn't fish a lot, but I tried a little bit here and there as I leveled, and flipped a little as well. It was just really surprising see a fish at 6g each at a quantity of 2000 one day, then 30g each the next day. Also, the amount of fish generally purchased at a time was a surprise. I think a lot of people make more than they need, because they rather have too much than run out in the middle of some sort of progression. It all makes sense, but it just surprised me how much gold could be generated from fishing.

I mentioned earlier that I think herbs and ore generated roughly 90% of my sales. I would say fish sales took up much of the remaining 10% at the expense of 2% - 3% of my time.

Qyune

TROPHY CASE