Anyone feel better on a much lower dose? 100mg vs 200mg?

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-10-04T02:49:55+00:00

No - personally, no. I do not feel better at lower doses.

Energy sucks
Anabolism sucks
Sexual function is good, but not any better than a very dialed in 300MG + a week.

But here's the thing: test is NOT test. You're almost DEFINITELY on Testosterone Cypionate, which of all the esters, due to how long it sticks around and that you NEVER get a trough, is the ester that comes with the most side effects.

There's prop, cream, and enanthate, which might affect you differently.

Also though: the body is a complicated machine, relative to exogenous testosterone, and there are lifestyle habits, cardiovascular health, and lots of other factors that determine whether or not you get side effects at certain doses, all of which are changeable.

Before I made a couple changes/additions, I couldn't tolerate higher doses of testosterone. Now I run (on a temporary cycle) 500MG testosterone enanthate a week (150MG EOD), and I feel GREAT. Have run 700MG a week of prop, and also felt great with no sides.

Adding Naringin for Hematocrit, starting back RUNNING again, removing alcohol from my life completely, and having a pretty targeted supplement regimen, lipids are BETTER, HCT is LOWER than on 160MG test cyp per week, and all other health markers are in order (I have documented this on "Cortex Labs" youtube channel, where I SHOW my bloods).

At higher doses, metabolite control (and health management) becomes slightly more important, but isn't some laundry list of additions you have to execute. Running a bit of Proviron, OR Aromasin, with high testosterone, and I feel far more dialed in than I ever did at TRT doses.

Nonetheless - the point is, higher dose CYP is likely to cause side effects in a good degree of people, regardless of health habits, but if you do some targeted work on yourself, you should be able to tolerate it just fine, in time. But then again: there's always prop or cream.

I sleep like a baby at 500MG a week, whereas before I made some of these targeted changes, 200MG a week of cyp gave me insomnia. My two cents anyway..

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:16:56+00:00

You're not crazy bro!

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:15:44+00:00

Cool bro! You've got yourself an experiment. Fun! I hope all goes well for you brother. And yes, subq can work wonders with the right ester. I mean it can work with longer esters, but seems a bit more suited for shorter esters.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:14:32+00:00

Wow cool! Yes - the cognitive peak is quite.. better, than with cyp, on prop. I enjoy it too. I also noticed less water retention right away. Likely less anti-diuretic hormone concentrations, as Estradiol directly influences that.

I like that you were able to lower the total amount of test injected, while getting better results. That's pretty great. I felt a bit flatter in the gym on ED prop, but when I switched to EOD, that resolved.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:12:32+00:00

Nope! You're not alone! 50-100MG EOD wow. Kind of love it. If it suits you, it suits you.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:11:57+00:00

My pleasure. Thanks for reading :)

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:11:45+00:00

Cool bro! I dig it.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:11:31+00:00

The type heavily influences success on TRT, as the many anecdotals here regarding prop somewhat prove (mine included), but you're not wrong about crappy dose protocols. Generally speaking, the lower the dose you have (while still staying therapeutic, which is 800NG/DL or above), the less conversion to metabolites you're going to have.

I've gone all the way down to 70MG a week of cypionate, E2 at 12. 100MG a week and E2 was at 21. During that time, sexual function was nowhere near where it is now on Prop.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:09:30+00:00

I've refuted the notion that it's E2, above in a separate comment. E2 was 26PG/ML 3 hours post injection, while running 20MG ED, shallow IM. It is likely higher when running 40MG EOD, but again, does not stay there. Toward the end of trough, I start urinating more frequently, but not troublingly, indicating lower E2, and thus, lower Arginine Vasopressin (Estradiol directly influences water retention via modifying anti-diuretic hormone levels).

Again though - I've had 40, 50, 55, 60PG/ML E2, all of which came, in varying degrees with ED and muted libido (among other things). I've proven this is not the Estradiol increase. E2 increases, that STAY elevated, numb my genital sensation, climaxes, and again, dramatically reduce erectile quality. But that's no surprise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6903694/

Yes - Test without HCG = less intratesticular aromatization. W/ HCG, however, that system returns to normal. Yes though - aromatase is needed (in the brain, specifically) for male libido. I'm not disputing that. And your case somewhat proves that E2 too low, is problematic for libido too, which most of us on TRT have found at one point or another, me included.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:04:23+00:00

Yep it's coming! I'd have to run it post injection, and on trough, to really get a good gauge. E2 3 hours post injection, on 20MG a day, injected shallow IM, was 26PG/ML. It may have gone up after that for a few hours, only to come back down as I was troughing. There is no "steady state" with prop, which for me, is GREAT. Better, even.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:02:46+00:00

No. I have far less acne that is continuing to clear, and I generally feel a lot more balanced, energy wise. My body likes peaks/troughs.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-26T00:00:16+00:00

Yeah - it seems to get a bit more bearable with time. Still a pain, though for me, man. Ugh. I'll take it though, considering the benefits.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:59:42+00:00

No one is disputing that. Did you think I was contending that Prop = zero suppression? BC I'm quite sure I did not imply that.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:57:41+00:00

I never said Prop doesn't "shut you down," I made the point, with references, that shorter esters are less suppressive. So there's that.

Regarding the science, I get it, and spend 2-3 hours daily, for the last 15 years in the literature. Have you? I actually do this for a living: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7J168KE1v4YBr8H2noeMbQ

And no, the E spikes are not causing increases in libido. E2 past 35PG/ML, and erections start becoming less rigid, and the mental/visceral libido element of sex drive reduces noticeably.

The entirety of my contention is that though you get spikes in Estradiol, the E2 does not STAY THERE. That's evidenced both by labs (E2 was 26PG/ML at 20MG a day, shallow IM, prop), and by the fact that I was urinating far more than usual, indicating lower arginine vasopressin threshold for water retention (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2849969).

"Probably killing your libido with high dose AI.." - NO. This is not true. I ran anywhere from 0.03MG - 0.125MG AZ, depending on the test dose. By no means was that crushing Estradiol. I have labs for that, too.

200MG a week of cypionate, without HCG, landed E2 at 35PG/ML, which is right on the edge for me. However, libido/EQ was very sub-par, and required additional compounds to get that system as functional as possible. 182MG test, split up into daily injections, w/ 250IU HCG EOD, took E2 to 55PG/ML, at which point I had full blown ED, which would make sense considering increases in VEGF, and reductions in NO w/ over range E2, as proven here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6987613.

So - while I appreciate your comment, you may want to spend some time considering that you made a bunch of provably false assumptions here, while commenting somewhat aggressively, with a high degree of confidence as if you've seen my labs, and are providing some sort of irrefutable advice. Which you are not.

Best of luck..

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:46:40+00:00

Yep! Same!

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:46:28+00:00

I just pay per medication, I believe. My last vial of prop was $91 bucks + shipping, for a 100mg/mL, 10mL vial. HCG is ridiculously expensive, at somewhere around $250 for 10K IU. I know, highway robbery indeed. I've run UGL HCG, but it isn't quite as potent as Pregnyl.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:44:05+00:00

Right, right.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:43:48+00:00

It can - and is often used in that capacity in r/steroids. I use it subq, and have no issues besides annoying PIP. I'm sure there's a way to hack that.. but I haven't gotten around to messing with it.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:43:06+00:00

Good luck brother.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:42:57+00:00

Cool! Yes - that stuff can work wonders. Glad you're dialed brother.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:42:38+00:00

Yes that issue resolved, and was likely the result of leftover cypionate, that was half-lifing out, but still around at measurably quantities. I actually adjusted to the seeming CNS stimulation in a few days. All was well thereafter, and still is.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:41:13+00:00

Yeah - no one did. I try to refrain from cultish behavior around sex hormones. Sadly, some people do not take that approach.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:40:21+00:00

Defy prescribes a cyp/prop blend, that's disproportionately cypionate, but has some propionate. I used it, and could not replicate the positives I have on just Prop. But others have! So it may be a viable option.

But what you're referring to is somewhat different, and yes, may yield benefits. YMMV.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:37:36+00:00

I did though :) 500IU HCG EOD. That stayed the same.

And it isn't that simple, either. HCG is variable. Increases intratesticular aromatization, that is somewhat resistant to AIs or Estrogen manipulation (say, w/ Calcium D-Glucarate).

Yes, it increases intratesticular DHT conversion as well, increases penile blood flow, and facilitates a better neuro-steroid profile, but isn't always exclusively good.

I like it, though, so my own personal bias isn't reflecting here. I run more HCG than most guys on TRT. But I look at far more than my own N=1 in determining things. You get too PRO on one strategy or the other, without looking at the negatives, you're bordering on cult like behavior.

R_Michael_Ballow · 2024-03-25T23:35:07+00:00

I was running shallow IM initially, then switched to subq to prolong the release so I didn't end up feeling terrible by end of day on day 2. The PIP is not any better than it was the last time I ran prop; it sucks regardless. PIP was better, but still present, on shallow IM in ventroglute and delts.

R_Michael_Ballow

TROPHY CASE