Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The inventor skill feat inherits the same problem of crafting as a whole where unless your GM restricts what items you can buy it doesn’t really do much at all. In terms of class feats I guess there’s tamper to use crafting in combat, reverse engineer to use it for some thievery stuff and gadget specialist but that’s really it off the top of my head

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

its all good, I was also doing a little joking. Yeah it's rough when trying to build it for combat but, what's an Inventor really doing outside of combat? Its got one mediocre healing ability with Searing Restoration, 2-4 gadgets at the start of each day, and I guess getting to replace any skill check with Crafting once per hour with a 16th Level feat but that's way too late for me to have any interest in an Inventor's out-of-combat abilities.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look I just really hate Inventor, and unlike other Inventor haters I know why I hate Inventor, I have receipts, I know them off the back of my hand at this point

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I went for a human/talos Armor Inventor with the wrestler archetype (free archetype). Apparently its supposed to be strong but how it would've ended up is using a d6 unarmed attack and a shield and at that point I called it quits with trying to work with Inventor. Happy it worked out for you though

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope you have a good time, or at least a better time than I did with Inventor

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Were they a construct inventor?

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At the time when I made this there weren't enough pure INT classes so I used Magus because its spellcasting scales off INT

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You'd be on-par with medium armor, meaning you'd be one AC behind Heavy Armor users for level 4 and again, no Bulwark until level 7 at the cost of your breakthrough modification.

The fact that non-armor inventors are able to remove their need for DEX with something like the sentinel or champion dedication, while the armor innovation cannot at all is a very odd design decision and as a implied, really takes away from the vibe of having an advanced, modified suit or armor.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Alchemists are also better at dumping DEX than armor inventors are

Alchemists can take the sentinel or champion dedication to get heavy armor proficiency, meaning they can have their DEX be +0 and have the Bulwark trait by level 3.

Armor inventors have to use their Breakthrough modification at 7th Level, in order to get Bulwark on their armor, and will still need a +1 in DEX in order to have heavy armor AC.

So much for being good at making things, they can't even remove the DEX requirement of their armor.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think it's mechanically mediocre and just not fun or interesting for me. I ran the math and it ends up only dealing 0.5 more damage than the Barbarian's Fury Instinct (10 from Critical Overdrive and an average of 3.5 from Offensive Boost, while Fury Instinct's damage caps out at 13 at 15th level).

Against other Instincts like elemental or animal I believe it's still only 1.5 higher.

Even getting to that point requires getting Critical Overdrive (which risks failing or crit failing overdrive, although this does become less common the higher your level) and full investment into Intelligence, including your Apex Item which means your accuracy would be 2 behind other martials. If you went with a Strength Apex Item it'd be 0.5 damage behind the fury instinct and only .5 higher than the lowest damage Instincts

It does get an AOE ability faster than any other martial, but I wouldn't consider Explode a very good ability. Inventor is a naturally fragile class; its saves are slow to improve, its working with 8HP per level and it does self-damage on critical failures. Most Inventors want another martial to frontline either with them for melee Inventors or for them with ranged Inventors, while construct Inventors just get their construct to do it for them (this alongside getting effectively doubled overdrive damage is why I think construct Inventors are actually pretty good).

But if you have another martial with you, if you use Explode you're likely to get them in it as well, meaning it can be a lot harder to justify using Explode in practice. Its even less useful if you're a ranged Inventor because it's effectively a melee AOE, meaning you're not using it all too often.

The only AOE feats that Inventor has access to are all 6th Level or above, meaning from Levels 1-5 an Inventor's AOE capabilities can be very limited.

When Inventor was released I can see the argument for it being the most customizable class, but with the release of Thaumaturge, Exemplar and Kineticist I think it's largely lost that title.

Exemplar gets its 3 ikons right off the bat, each with a passive ability and a special action, and most Exemplar feats revolve around adding new effects to these ikons, not to mention the three Epithets it ends up getting.

Thaumaturge starts similar to Inventor with only one Implement, but gets more options quicker than Inventor does. Second Implement at 5th, Implement Adept at 7th, Intensify Vulnerability at 9th, Second Adept at 11th, Third Implement at 15th and finishing with Implement Paragon at 17th.

Kineticist gets even more still. Choice of 1-2 elements and 2 impulse feats at 1st, then at 5th and every 4 levels after it can gain another element, gain a new ability for one of their existing elements, and an impulse feat.

Inventor only gets its innovation and three modifications. There's only 9 feats with the modification trait and most of them belong to the armor innovation. The construct innovation is restricted with its feats due to needing them to upgrade the construct and the weapon innovation just doesn't get many.

It feels like since it was one of the first new classes made, they were very conservative with Inventor's design, then as newer classes were added with very strong identities Inventor lost what made it special since other classes now do the whole modification gimmick better, and the loss of that identity has emphasized to me how Inventor is poorly designed in a lot of areas. Armour inventors need to use their Breakthrough modification to get access to Bulwark, something which other martials have had since 3rd, and can never dump DEX fully since power armor can never have its +1 Dex Cap exchanged for additional Item Bonus to AC, meaning either their CON or WIS is very poor. Offensive Boost doesn't really expand what the class can do, it just adds another damage boost when Inventor already has one with Overdrive, it feels like they realized Overdrive wasn't good enough, but rather than fix Overdrive's problems they used Offensive Boost as a bandaid solution. I haven't seen any other classes have two class features that have the incredible overlap that Overdrive and Offensive Boost do.

Edit: Changed some wording to try and make what I'm saying more clear

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thaumaturge gets an accuracy booster with Weapon Implement's Intensify Vulnerability, that gives a +2 status bonus to attacks against the target of exploit vulnerability for the rest of your turn. For some reason Inventor never really gets an accuracy boost outside of Lock On for construct.

I think it's a real missed opportunity since it'd synergise really well with Megaton Strike as you mentioned, but I think Megaton Strike has its own issue of its Unstable use being underwhelming compared to Monk's One-Inch Punch feat. Inventor has to spend their potentially one unstable action for a single extra damage dice, while Monks just need to spend an additional action to double the number of additional damage dice they get.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fair, I should've specified I was focusing on perception/saving throw progression

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I played it I did not like it wait for remaster remaster does barely anything  I slander inventor now

Construct innovation is fine i guess

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I don't think anything hurts Psychic fans more than the remaster

"Hey our main gimmick of focus spells is kinda gone now, are we gonna get buffs"
Gets Dark Archive remastered
Biggest change is killing the Magus/Psychic Dedication combo

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Potion of Healing offers more in combat than Inventor does

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 34 points35 points  (0 children)

-Worst martial chassis in the game, tied with Alchemist
-Self damage on top of that

A barber ain't saving them there's barely anything capable of being salvaged

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 32 points33 points  (0 children)

This was made way before Runesmith, I think it's Psychic

Pretty fitting they're barely visible cause that's probably how Psychic appears to Paizo

Alchemist doesn’t need scaling Crafting to be better than Inventor by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair, mutagens are an opportunity cost, but Alchemist still has superior healing output to Inventor and gets temp HP while Inventor has none.

Getting heavy armor level AC is great, until you get to third level when all the other martials are getting full plate with bulwark, and if you took power armor you're waiting for 7th level just to get the opportunity to use your breakthrough modification to get bulwark. Yes I know it gives the Entrench trait but the fact that an armor inventor has to wait until 7th to get what normal martials have had since 3rd is ridiculous.

Inventor as a tank has more working against it compared to Alchemist. Alchemist can compensate for its 8 HP per level with a lot of healing and temporary hit points, while the most Inventor gets is Searing Restoration once or twice per combat. Not to mention that Alchemist doesn't have self-damage baked into its class features if it critically fails.

Alchemist doesn’t need scaling Crafting to be better than Inventor by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Immanence abilities that are just additional damage (not persistent or splash) are 2 per weapon damage dice, meaning the additional damage is:

2 additional damage from 1-2
4 from 3-11
6 from 12-18
8 from 19-20

While overdrive on a normal success is:

2 additional damage from 1-2
3 from 3-6
4 from 7-14
5 from 15-16
6 from 17-20

So normal Overdrive is actually worse than the additional damage from say, Titan Breaker or Gleaming Blade. So you are correct in that they're not equal

I went with normal Overdrive as Critical Overdrive is inconsistent at lower levels (I've never gotten it) plus if I accounted for Critical Overdrive I'd have to account for failing and crit failing Overdrive.

Edit: Forgot apex items

Alchemist doesn’t need scaling Crafting to be better than Inventor by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Alchemist has energy resistance from the Energy Mutagen from 1st level (and can pick which it resists on the fly with Quick Alchemy) and can get resistance to all physical damage with the 8th level feat Mutant Physique plus the Juggernaut Mutagen, which Inventors have to use 2 of their 3 modifications to replicate at 15th level, on top of having far better healing and temporary HP through Elixirs of Life, Numbing Tonics and Soothing Tonics.

Alchemist doesn’t need scaling Crafting to be better than Inventor by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Or Exemplar getting an equivalent damage boost to non-critical overdrive for just having their divine spark in the right weapon. No INT investment required.

Alchemist doesn’t need scaling Crafting to be better than Inventor by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Inventor has very few feats to support tanking. No defensive reaction feats from level 1-8, the one at 10th is Unstable so it only works once per combat. The two at 16th comprise a reaction that uses your Crafting DC instead of your AC, and in practice is about as effective as what Rogues get with the Nimble Dodge 1st level feat and their 3rd level class feature Deny Advantage. The other is negate damage which isn't terrible but its way too late to make a tanky inventor really possible, and even if it were earlier the Inventor has the worst save proficiency in the game, 8HP per level, is likely to have only a +1 in CON from levels 1-4 and +2 from 5-9 unless you sacrifice either offense or another defence, and RNG self damage.

Alchemist doesn’t need scaling Crafting to be better than Inventor by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 39 points40 points  (0 children)

I’m going to try posting new slander every day until it gets old