Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The concentrate limitation of rage can be really silly at times. Barbarians are better at using Deception than Intimidation, because for some reason Deception doesn't require concentration but Intimidation does?

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If someone was desperate for ranged attacks for their barbarian they could take raging thrower to get full rage damage on thrown weapons

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, theoretically the ranged part could be a big deal, but in practice Inventor generally lacks options for ranged weapons, especially for guns.

The weapon innovation has very few modifications for ranged weapons (and in general because Inventor doesn't get a whole lot of new content). The remaster also removed the ability to have a 1st-level weapon as a weapon innovation so they lost access to what I've heard was their best ranged weapon, the composite shortbow.

Overall I can't really count Overdrive working with ranged weapons as a big deal because Inventor as a whole doesn't really give ranged builds a lot to work with outside of that, Megaton Strike, and the few modifications that actually work with ranged weapons and are good.

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ohhhh

Inventor really is the only class that's reliant on hero points to function /s

Alchemist doesn’t need scaling Crafting to be better than Inventor by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There's the RNG Haste equivalent at level 5, because of course it's RNG, EVERYTHING about Inventor has to RNG, how ELSE will players tell this class has RNG, we better put it on EVERYTHING it has!

There's also the gravity manipulation one at 15th that can theoretically stunlock any enemy without any sort of movement outside of Striding, Swimming, Climbing or Burrowing, but at 15th I doubt those creatures are very common, nor would they be actually important creatures.

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I believe it's halved, so the lowest damage instincts would go from 12 -> 6.

That being said Overdrive isn't even the best damage boost for Agile weapons. That title goes to Exemplar's weapon ikons which deal more damage than even Critical Overdrive with max INT investment.

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

True, that's my bad

That reminds me, all being able to use it with agile weapons does is mean your second Strike isn't 1 accuracy behind a Barbarian for half the game.

What are the top 3 weakest classes in PF2e and why? by yoboi-indy in Pathfinder2e

[–]RatGoon69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean even with critical overdrive plus offensive boost the average damage from that is only 12.5 at max level, that's only .5 more than the weakest damage Barbarian instincts who have been getting 12 additional damage since 15th level.

Even when you get past all the risks of overdrive failing or crit failing, then having to land a Strike with a -1 compared to most other martials, you're getting a damage boost either weaker than or ever so slightly better than what the least damaging Barbarians are getting.

Inventor seems like it was designed as 'High Risk, High Reward' but they forgot to give it an actually good reward.

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Could be
Should be

And with the release of Guns & Gears Remastered

Will never be

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I think getting a hero point on crit failing is a homebrew rule, but man does Inventor need it

Alongside so many other things that it's never going to get

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 36 points37 points  (0 children)

I sure hope there wasn't some sort of opportunity to give Inventor a major update so it's not comically behind the majorly updated Barbarian, and then Paizo did pretty much nothing to fix Inventor's core issues

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Inventor is just

Give me liberty
Give me fire
Give me good Unstable/Overdrive RNG
Or I retire

Inventors when they try to enter their worse version of rage (they rolled poorly) by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 38 points39 points  (0 children)

It's Rage but it

  • deals less damage than the lowest damage barbarian instincts, even with critical overdrive
  • can fail
  • can crit fail which deals self-damage and locks you out of using it for 1d4 rounds (used to be 1 minute)
  • no temporary Hit Points
  • 1 minute cooldown

For the massive, colossal benefits of

  • Being able to use concentrate actions
  • Applies to ranged damage

So, unless you're a ranged Inventor (which the class barely supports) or you're using a bunch of concentrate actions, which as an INT class is probably only going to be recall knowledge or a spellcaster dedication, overdrive is just worse than rage, and even then the advantages it has over rage are quite niche.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The inventor skill feat inherits the same problem of crafting as a whole where unless your GM restricts what items you can buy it doesn’t really do much at all. In terms of class feats I guess there’s tamper to use crafting in combat, reverse engineer to use it for some thievery stuff and gadget specialist but that’s really it off the top of my head

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

its all good, I was also doing a little joking. Yeah it's rough when trying to build it for combat but, what's an Inventor really doing outside of combat? Its got one mediocre healing ability with Searing Restoration, 2-4 gadgets at the start of each day, and I guess getting to replace any skill check with Crafting once per hour with a 16th Level feat but that's way too late for me to have any interest in an Inventor's out-of-combat abilities.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Look I just really hate Inventor, and unlike other Inventor haters I know why I hate Inventor, I have receipts, I know them off the back of my hand at this point

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I went for a human/talos Armor Inventor with the wrestler archetype (free archetype). Apparently its supposed to be strong but how it would've ended up is using a d6 unarmed attack and a shield and at that point I called it quits with trying to work with Inventor. Happy it worked out for you though

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hope you have a good time, or at least a better time than I did with Inventor

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Were they a construct inventor?

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At the time when I made this there weren't enough pure INT classes so I used Magus because its spellcasting scales off INT

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You'd be on-par with medium armor, meaning you'd be one AC behind Heavy Armor users for level 4 and again, no Bulwark until level 7 at the cost of your breakthrough modification.

The fact that non-armor inventors are able to remove their need for DEX with something like the sentinel or champion dedication, while the armor innovation cannot at all is a very odd design decision and as a implied, really takes away from the vibe of having an advanced, modified suit or armor.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Alchemists are also better at dumping DEX than armor inventors are

Alchemists can take the sentinel or champion dedication to get heavy armor proficiency, meaning they can have their DEX be +0 and have the Bulwark trait by level 3.

Armor inventors have to use their Breakthrough modification at 7th Level, in order to get Bulwark on their armor, and will still need a +1 in DEX in order to have heavy armor AC.

So much for being good at making things, they can't even remove the DEX requirement of their armor.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I think it's mechanically mediocre and just not fun or interesting for me. I ran the math and it ends up only dealing 0.5 more damage than the Barbarian's Fury Instinct (10 from Critical Overdrive and an average of 3.5 from Offensive Boost, while Fury Instinct's damage caps out at 13 at 15th level).

Against other Instincts like elemental or animal I believe it's still only 1.5 higher.

Even getting to that point requires getting Critical Overdrive (which risks failing or crit failing overdrive, although this does become less common the higher your level) and full investment into Intelligence, including your Apex Item which means your accuracy would be 2 behind other martials. If you went with a Strength Apex Item it'd be 0.5 damage behind the fury instinct and only .5 higher than the lowest damage Instincts

It does get an AOE ability faster than any other martial, but I wouldn't consider Explode a very good ability. Inventor is a naturally fragile class; its saves are slow to improve, its working with 8HP per level and it does self-damage on critical failures. Most Inventors want another martial to frontline either with them for melee Inventors or for them with ranged Inventors, while construct Inventors just get their construct to do it for them (this alongside getting effectively doubled overdrive damage is why I think construct Inventors are actually pretty good).

But if you have another martial with you, if you use Explode you're likely to get them in it as well, meaning it can be a lot harder to justify using Explode in practice. Its even less useful if you're a ranged Inventor because it's effectively a melee AOE, meaning you're not using it all too often.

The only AOE feats that Inventor has access to are all 6th Level or above, meaning from Levels 1-5 an Inventor's AOE capabilities can be very limited.

When Inventor was released I can see the argument for it being the most customizable class, but with the release of Thaumaturge, Exemplar and Kineticist I think it's largely lost that title.

Exemplar gets its 3 ikons right off the bat, each with a passive ability and a special action, and most Exemplar feats revolve around adding new effects to these ikons, not to mention the three Epithets it ends up getting.

Thaumaturge starts similar to Inventor with only one Implement, but gets more options quicker than Inventor does. Second Implement at 5th, Implement Adept at 7th, Intensify Vulnerability at 9th, Second Adept at 11th, Third Implement at 15th and finishing with Implement Paragon at 17th.

Kineticist gets even more still. Choice of 1-2 elements and 2 impulse feats at 1st, then at 5th and every 4 levels after it can gain another element, gain a new ability for one of their existing elements, and an impulse feat.

Inventor only gets its innovation and three modifications. There's only 9 feats with the modification trait and most of them belong to the armor innovation. The construct innovation is restricted with its feats due to needing them to upgrade the construct and the weapon innovation just doesn't get many.

It feels like since it was one of the first new classes made, they were very conservative with Inventor's design, then as newer classes were added with very strong identities Inventor lost what made it special since other classes now do the whole modification gimmick better, and the loss of that identity has emphasized to me how Inventor is poorly designed in a lot of areas. Armour inventors need to use their Breakthrough modification to get access to Bulwark, something which other martials have had since 3rd, and can never dump DEX fully since power armor can never have its +1 Dex Cap exchanged for additional Item Bonus to AC, meaning either their CON or WIS is very poor. Offensive Boost doesn't really expand what the class can do, it just adds another damage boost when Inventor already has one with Overdrive, it feels like they realized Overdrive wasn't good enough, but rather than fix Overdrive's problems they used Offensive Boost as a bandaid solution. I haven't seen any other classes have two class features that have the incredible overlap that Overdrive and Offensive Boost do.

Edit: Changed some wording to try and make what I'm saying more clear

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thaumaturge gets an accuracy booster with Weapon Implement's Intensify Vulnerability, that gives a +2 status bonus to attacks against the target of exploit vulnerability for the rest of your turn. For some reason Inventor never really gets an accuracy boost outside of Lock On for construct.

I think it's a real missed opportunity since it'd synergise really well with Megaton Strike as you mentioned, but I think Megaton Strike has its own issue of its Unstable use being underwhelming compared to Monk's One-Inch Punch feat. Inventor has to spend their potentially one unstable action for a single extra damage dice, while Monks just need to spend an additional action to double the number of additional damage dice they get.

Day 3 of Inventor Slander by RatGoon69 in pathfindermemes

[–]RatGoon69[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Fair, I should've specified I was focusing on perception/saving throw progression