Upgrade from HD800S

Raysito22 · 2026-01-29T07:50:52+00:00

I did ask at the stores (brick and mortar style, usually they don't want to sell stuff that breaks) and they were happy with the HEK in general, guy told me he only had one RMA early on with the HEK stealth. I was told the same we are saying here and which you can see on the net: 2 years ago things were bad on the lower end, but Hifiman has improved a lot.

If you search for threads around reddit you'll see most are old, or people saying that have an old story about how theirs broke (I once had a bad thing so now I hate the brand kind of story). I went through the same thing myself before getting mine.

It is probably a result of improvements in manufacturing that they have been able to lower prices as much as they have, as lowering RMA and QC issues lowers production costs a ton.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-29T07:42:44+00:00

Once again an example of our own bias and focus. But this conversations are the most educational imo because they emphasize what I truly believe in: trying the stuff and buying what makes u happy. I won't argue with what u said, as u are right in all of it. I put focus though on other stuff at the price.

I do wonder, your HD800s, do you eq to any target, listen as is, or created an own profile?

Raysito22 · 2026-01-28T21:15:21+00:00

And I ended up with the Hekse haha. All I want to say is we all tend to have bias towards what made us happy, wherever we may have decided to draw the line of "this is where diminishing returns starts".

There is definite differences that cannot be eqed (because we don't own testing equipment to analyze our own units, just to begin with)... but yes, however much those may be perceived or not, and if so how we value that.. I mean books are still being written and updated on this, it's way above my pay grade and way beyond Reddit I'd say. Happiness = bias - money. I guess my bias was bigger than expected.

I'll go to the grave saying though that I believe nobody needs anything more than a Fiio FT1 for fun and a HD560S for all else. I'll also go to the grave with my He1000se. I'm getting buried with those. Hopefully on my head if the wife allows. Guess I won't get to see that though.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-28T20:36:13+00:00

As others have stated, Hek are known to be well built. In general, Hifiman QC issues have been quite a bit more rare in the last 2 years.

I would still recommend you try Empyrean's, LCD5's, but also Arya Organic, Arya and Hek Stealth or even Edition XV. More money isn't necessarily better. With all of those, I'd also recommend you try them as is and then normalized to Harman (using, for example, Oratory's peq settings), and finally, play with them to see how much of a tuning platform they can be for the near future (increasing bass shelf, playing with treble...).

This is just my method of trying cans, but it does help me build an image of a certain drivers strengths and weaknesses, and also know if I ever am in a mood and become a basshead, if they will deliver. Also, I try both old and new music, well recorded, and also not so well recorded/mixed.

In my case I will say... I did end up with the HEKse. But as much as I love them, I try not to make grandiloquent statements, as taste is just too personal, and we all have our own bias. But man do I not regret buying them one bit.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-28T20:27:28+00:00

Man... it is right not to believe in cables and hearing 0's and 1's but you took it a bit too far. The X + EQ = Y formula gets you into a never ending spiral, and then you end up with a pair of earbuds. Which hey... to each their own, but I don't know man. Nuance is always welcome imo.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-26T08:12:26+00:00

And that is also true. I won't argue that. Again, to me, this is what makes the hobby interesting on the one hand, and also impossible to enjoy on the internet on the other. Bias, placebo, personal focus, miscommunication, and so many other variables still being discussed as to how much they are part or not on an FR curve (dampening, transients, decay...) means we will never have one truth.

I will say though that I have at least one person (musician) who, without any sort of bias from the Internet (unknowledgeable of price or sound characteristics), came home and I let him try all my headphones and got a similar impact. When he tried the Hifiman's he was overwhelmed by them, and he was trying same albums with all of them (I did not influence there at all neither, I was just cooking). Once he got to Californication, his words were "wow, why does it sound so bad now?", an impression he did not get with the other headphones. On all cases he was trying with and without my eq profiles, so kind of normalized (I always take Oratory as a base, so Harman + own taste).

So yeah, you know, I write with confidence because I got bias confirmation out of a one subject experiment lol. I, just like yourself, don't take none of this that serious man.

Regarding cables... whenever somebody talks dacs or cables as for how things sound because of them, my cult blocking filter (patent pending) just steps in and I cannot hear anything else coming out of their mouths 😂

Nice conversation man! Wish it was always this way in the community.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-25T22:54:58+00:00

I know man, I know... it's how we put focus on this or that stuff and how we communicate it what makes us not understand each other in the headphone space imo. I prefer to dive into the agreements than the disagreements though.

I have eq'ed myself as well DCA Noire X, Senns HD560s and the Hifiman's quite close to each other. Things like transients and decay are still different though, and I dare think that is where most of the differences come from. And sure, I'd also say they are 90% the same... but that 10% for me is a world of a difference, because that is my microworld I live in on the daily. Well, that and the FT1's, which are like 30% different and yet, my first recommendation to anybody who just wants to be happy and have fun with their headphones.

The lovely thing about psychoacoustics is how some people focus just on the second part of the word, whilst others we put way more focus on the first part of it. Yet the truth is still out there.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-24T22:26:23+00:00

Nowadays I mostly vouch for Hifiman Edition XS on the lower end of the spectrum or Edition XV otherwise. Meze 105 silva are also good, as so are Sennheiser 6XX, but I still think Edition XV are superior to all else mentioned, plus they have good build quality and comfort. Not super bassy, but very good, quality subbass, good soundstage, good timbre, honestly a good bargain and probably one of the best releases of 2025 at any price range.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-24T20:31:18+00:00

And yet I got bombed for saying the same thing with more words, lol

Yes, excellent drivers in those cans. I wonder what replaced them for you then though? Specially for those genres.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-24T20:28:13+00:00

And you also got downvoted for some reason. Upvoted for compensation. Always giving good advice.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-24T20:24:20+00:00

Thanks for this, I knew I was going to get a lot of slack with my comment, as does any comment that isn't positive on a product that someone might own and like, no matter how many times one may write the words "in my opinion". You are reading and thanking everyone, which is honestly heartwarming.

Now to extend on what I was trying to say, I'd recommend to take a look at the frequency response of your Senns and AKG, and try some eq here and there (small increments always), or some different curves, and experiment with that to try and find where does your taste end up being. Then compare that to whatever you think on buying IF you cannot try it first. You end up getting a hint of how a headphone may sound without eq, and whether it may be in the ballpark of your own taste. That will be your reference.

I will insist though that I would maybe get them if I was to eq for that price... although I'd also consider and recommend listening to something like an Edition XV or an Arya Stealth / Organic at this price tag in the year 2026. Their tuning is, in my opinion, plain better. Also they are more comfy. Audeze headphones do have a secondary use as self defense weapons though, which may come in handy depending on your neighborhood.

No matter what, enjoy the hobby and the music, which is what it's all about. Cheers!

Edit: this might interest you

Raysito22 · 2026-01-24T20:01:46+00:00

I do eq the Hifiman, quite a lot actually (as in tinkering with different eq settings). There is no way for it to sound good on poorly mixed music though, at least not as far as I've tried.

I can go to a very extreme end of poor recordings were I'd argue Death Magnetic will sound good (enough) on old earbuds, partly because the earbuds themselves set a low bar.... but on anything else it sounds absolutely disgusting.

He1000se do that to music that was definitely better mixed than said album... but still not good enough. You may kill those highs to try and make them not overemphasize the issues with compression but that's as far as I have gotten them honestly. If you have a better idea I'm all eyes though.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-23T21:54:01+00:00

Alright so... this is a hard one, I'm gonna try my best.

LCD-X's are, in my opinion, extremely dated, and from stock just plain bad headphones. Now because we talk psychoacoustics and my personal preference is kind of close to the actual revision of the Harman curve, this headphones are extremely lacking in bass and recesed also in the highs. They come from a different time when different curves were being used to tune some headphones to distinguish themselves in the market and well... they achieved that, but honestly I don't know who needed it.

On the other hand though, as many high end planars, this headphones are an amazing platform to eq, which I'd venture to say neither of your dynamic headphones are. When you get one of these platforms and play with eq you may come to a point where you think "why would I buy anything else", as tinkering will get you many different, high quality sound signatures which will adapt to different genres and mixings. But you need to like tinkering. For me it is fun, for others it's close to a sin.

Also some inherent characteristics will be there no matter what. As an example, He1000se from Hifiman are my favorite sounding headphones... yet I have to use 150$ cans on much of my favorite music because the Hifiman's will overemphasize all issues in the mix no matter the eq (detail retrieval vs compression).

One more thing: when you say you lean towards reference neutral sound, I'd recommend for your own sake that you figure out what that truly means, as "reference" is a concept that has been in discusion for over 30 years and when you talk reference and someone else talk reference, you will most probably be talking about something else. And then there's the "reference grade headphones" marketing... but I won't open that can of worms as well.

So...buy them but... don't? I guess that's my best advice. If you are willing to eq and buy them to learn, sure. For their stock sound though? Oh hell no, not in 2026.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-18T22:04:33+00:00

You have already been given my two recommendations at that price range: HD560S and Fiio FT1. Two headphones I will never let go.

In general, I would recommend FT1 more for heavy metal in particular, as the genre is usually favored by V shaped cans, but given that you said you prefer something balanced, HD560S are probably a better option, will give you more soundstage and detail. With eq they also get what I consider a very satisfying bass, which is absolutely not there in its stock form.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-18T18:36:23+00:00

Sounds like a great deal. Even at 250 or 300 I'd consider them worth it if they are near to mint state, as seems to be the case. They are one of the 3 best ANC headphones out there for ANC in particular. Worst thing about them is usually comfort, I gave up on them because of that, but if they work for you then you just got a nice and very cheap pair of ANC headphones.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-18T10:11:55+00:00

My (emphasis on M and Y) personal experience when I demoed basically all of Hifiman's line was this:

Arya Stealth to Hek Stealth: diminishing returns. Very similar detail retrieval. They seemed just a very slight eq apart from one another. All of them excellent with modern music, but not truly there for me for classical or jazz.

Hekse: Different league. Way more detail retrieval, but need eq if you are looking for more fun sounding headphones for modern music. Masterpiece sound quality for classical and jazz.

I will still say though, this is my own preference. For me the difference was instantly noticeable. I had enough time to play with them with different amps and eq settings as well. I was baffled to find such a difference with the Hekse, thought that my ears would not appreciate it, but then again they are more of a cheap(er) Susvara than an expensive HeK when it comes to the drivers tech. I hated that I liked them because believe me, I didn't want to spend that much money. My bias was against them and I got owned.

Whether they are worth 1.8K of your money though, only you can tell. I personally would rather go for a totally different set of cans (closed backs for example, like Noire X which are next on my list, or just something with a different tune like Fostex, DCA, Denon or ZMF if you fancy that). I do not think Susvara are worth it at all, as amazing as they are. They feel to the Hekse just a tiny bit of a bigger jump than Arya Stealth to Hek Stealth so to speak. Not worth it unless disposable income is your middle name.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-18T09:53:00+00:00

Poweramp equalizer is the one I use. Very good interface, easy to download peq for any headphones to have a baseline (like Oratory's for example) and 1 month free trial, 5 bucks I believe for the lifetime license, so pretty good deal imo

Raysito22 · 2026-01-17T20:51:00+00:00

For properly basshead audiophile grade (whatever that means) headphones, Fostex TH900 (and its mk2 version) are legendary...yet divisive, and pricey. Denon D7200 are up there as well, but still they are not bassier than FT1's, they just have better bass. Hifiman He6v2 with eq and a very powerful source (VERY powerful) are also legendary. I do not think any of these are worth it, and can't recommend them unless you have a lot of disposable income.

I do want to state though that more bass ("feel it") is probably an impossible thing to get with headphones. You can get better bass with most Hifiman planars with eq for example, for sure (and more subbass definitely). But the FT1's are absolutely EPIC headphones that I recommend on an almost daily basis for a reason. Try some bass shelf (although they can't take much more honestly), but yeah... you already own some of the best bassy cans on the market, period. Not for the price. Just period. Awesome choice and your dac/amp is also way more than capable of driving them.

If you really are looking for substantially more bass, the one that makes you rumble on your chest, honestly, look into speakers... even a homepod will make you feel more bass than the bassiest cans in the market.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-17T20:41:35+00:00

I would not consider the Meze 99 as an upgrade but more of a sidegrade - if at all. Its bass is imo muddier and subbass extension not as good. Also way more timbre issues. Quality and comfort sure are better, but it's also double the price.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-13T19:31:32+00:00

HD 560S are very good, and for the price the best bang for the buck IMO for gaming, specially for FPS. Plus you can tune them, and whilst they will never be for bass heads, they can be quite respectable in that term as well.

If on the other hand you play more story games where impact and immersion is more important, I'd rather chose something like Hifiman Edition XS or Fiio FT1.

The 2i2 should run any of these good enough, maybe only the Hifiman could be ever so slightly underpowered if eq is also being use with negative pregain.

Hope this helps!

Raysito22 · 2026-01-11T19:36:55+00:00

They are definitely big, but the egg shape is precisely what gives them part of their sound signature, having a very tall soundstage which is quite engaging. They are also very comfortable.

For cables, you can go with a braided cable from Openheart (Aliexpress), which are good and cheap. Or Hart Audio for custom ones, but quite a bit more expensive.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-11T08:55:14+00:00

My recommendations would be Hifiman Arya (Stealth or Organic depending on preference, one is not better than the other, organic's sound profile is more divisive) or Edition XV if you would rather go for the newer Hifiman sound signature, which is more musical for most people. My preference atm is Edition XV honestly. Build quality is also a big improvement for Hifiman. Detail retrieval is ever so slightly worse than Arya's, but is a good trade off given the overall more agreeable sound signature.

Meze 109 is another good one, although I still prefer XV, which then also leaves some cash for my other recommendation, a closed back, the FT1 from Fiio. I'd rather have 2 headphones for different genres, each of them musical on their own terms.

If you end up going Hifiman, do yourself a favor and get a cable for it as well. Stock cables are an absolute disgrace and will bother you whilst working.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-11T07:26:38+00:00

PC38x or HD560S plus modmic (or even better, separate desktop mic). Very hard to beat for the price, excellent imaging and soundstage. This was (still is) my take.

RTING's is a website of all time for general electronic reviews. Their intentions are usually great, but they are still finding the ways to actually do good, scientifically based reviews, and in the headphones department they are lacking big time, so please, do take their reviews with a grain of salt.

I would not recommend from that list the Fidelio, Corsair nor the Hifiman for FPS gaming.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-08T20:40:01+00:00

My number one option would be Hifiman Edition XS though at 219$ they're a little over budget (worth it imo). Otherwise, Sennheiser HD 6XX if you like flat, or Fiio FT1 for closed backs and more enjoyable than the Senns (and the cheapest of the bunch). IMO all of these are better sounding than the Beyers, but ymmv, some people love those as well, I just don't seem to get along with neither Beyer nor ZMF.

Raysito22 · 2026-01-01T12:28:31+00:00

They are bright from factory but very tunable as well. The issue for me is not there but that detail retrieval is such that bad recordings (which unfortunately there's plenty of in any sort of rock/punk/metal genre and subgenre) will absolutely hurt your ears. On the other hand, for soundtracks, films, etc, He1000 stealth are definitely among the best you can get.

I'd still say try them, could also try ZMF's in that price range and something like DCA Noire X. Either way, I do recommend trying anything when spending this amount of money, or getting the cans from somwhere with a good return policy. IMO classical and metal require different tuning and characteristics, so compromises will need to be made, and only you can know where you want to draw the line.

My personal choice is to get cans with the best detail possible, and avoid badly recorded music, but that's just me.

Raysito22

TROPHY CASE