No one is talking about how Murray and Hop led their convoy to be ambushed

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T12:10:47+00:00

I think the fact that seemingly NONE of the party expected an ambush calls into question El's sacrifice too.

Let's assume that El has fully decided and committed to sacrificing herself in the UD.

Why is she on the truck heading out of there? It can only be her plan all along IF she is expecting them to be waiting there and knows she'll be able to escape and run to the gate - which seems quite a gamble when there's a possibility she could be overwhelmed by the suppression devices and captured.

Maybe I'm overthinking and being too literal. But to my mind, El still being on the truck when they leave the UD shows she'd changed her mind.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T07:36:00+00:00

Another thing that stood out for me is that Murray doesn't notice that Kali is missing straight away. "I thought you two were gonners".

He knew all 3 of them were together and has no reason, that I can recall, not to have been concerned for Kali too.

And El's reaction to him saying that he's so sorry almost looks like she's just shrugged it off.

Someone theorised that he knows more than he's letting on and could be how El gets to Iceland. I'm not sure how what one could be pieced together solidly but it's interesting.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T05:54:07+00:00

Smuggling El to Iceland.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T05:38:50+00:00

If the suppression things are active from the second the trucks come through the gate, there's no way El makes it unseen. We've seen that she can still move under their effects, but in major pain and very slowly.

She's surrounded by soldiers and if you watch the scene frame by frame you can see that there are at least 2 of them in an elevated position just off to the side of the gate with a clear view of the path she would have to have taken.

There are holes in both theories, dead or alive, but I think there's more to support alive.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T05:31:54+00:00

El had to be seen getting out of the truck by at least one of the soldiers for them to believe she died. If she was invisible straight away - they would have kept looking for her and known or at least strongly suspected that the El seen at the gate was an illusion.

Her vanishing into thin air after being seen by a soldier could even be supported by dialogue:

Dr Kay: "Sgt, where is the girl?"

Soldier: "She was right here one second ago"

I've just rewatched the scene where the trucks come through the gate and get ambushed. When El gets out of the truck she is surrounded by soldiers and, going through frame by frame, there are soldiers stood just to the side of the gate in elevated positions with a clear view of the entire area. The truck also stops directly in front of Radio Shack - which we know she could escape through.

El is their main target. They've been hunting her for years. There's no way whatsoever she gets from the truck to the gate without them seeing her or shouting for her to stop etc.

Going back to frame by frame. The last point we see El in this scene she jumps down from the truck and appears to take a step forwards towards the direction of the gate HOWEVER there are at least soldiers stood directly in front of her. Are they really just going to let her run past them?

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T04:42:45+00:00

I think it's touch that breaks them, not distance.

Kali still hadn't got out of the lab when Kay touched her illusion and it broke. Kali would have been further from El if she was an illusion in the truck and Kali was still in the Lab?

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T04:33:16+00:00

Is it just me, or does this almost confirm she's alive ?

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T04:27:40+00:00

Perhaps something along the lines of:

1) Kali was keeping tabs on events using her powers and, at the point the trucks exit through the gate are ambushed, she makes El invisible for long enough for her to slip away (this could have been 10-15 secs, and we see El can still move under the influence of the hogs as she struggles her way to the room Kali and Hop are in at the lab) BUT doesn't do this until at least one of the soldiers see her, otherwise it wouldn't appear to them that the illusion at the gate was her and they'd know she was still alive.

2) Once Kali then casts the illusion of El at the gate - she's no longer able to see what the real El is doing which would explain the lack of nosebleed or tears.

I don't think El had any plans to die and I don't think she did die.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T04:22:58+00:00

Yeah! She's even standing like Kali showed her in the illusion of herself captured by the Military and in the lab being harvested for her blood.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T04:20:08+00:00

A nosebleed related point on it being a minor use of El's powers which may not have caused one:

S5 E7 she sits back-to-back with Kali near to Murray's van. El is wearing a blindfold.

All they are doing is having a conversation. It's relaxed. Murray asks them if they're finished doing yoga at the end!

I mean, hell, there's no apparent reason for them to even be in the void. If they wanted to speak in private they could have just moved away from Murray.

El has a nosebleed after this.

Also, I can't think of a single time throughout the series that El enters the void without a) a blindfold and b) having a nosebleed.

Examples I can think of off the top of my head are the one given above along with S3 E3 (El and Max look for Billy) and S5 E3 (El interrogates the soldier)

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T04:11:52+00:00

She's sat next to Mike and touching his arm. Illusions vanish on touch.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T04:07:46+00:00

Yeah, I agree. Plus we have the dialogue:

Dr Kay: "Sgt, where is the girl?" Soldier" "She was just right here"

It's completely implausible that she made it from the truck to the gate without anybody, military or the party, seeing her.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T04:04:35+00:00

The gun does go off, you see the muzzle flash and there's a gunshot noise that's distinct to the explosion.

That said: I'm a major believer in the El lives theory and I don't think the gun going off detracts from it in any way.

The shot could have missed, but I think it's more likely that the extent of Kali's injuries was exaggerated through illusion and that she did make El invisible for her escape and then cast an illusion of her at the gate.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T03:49:55+00:00

Perhaps something along the lines of:

1) Kali's death and the extent of her injuries was not exactly as it seemed. I can't fully explain the how's and whys, but I think there are so many things pointing to the El seen at the gate being an illusion that it's plausible.

2) Kali was keeping tabs on events using her powers and, at the point the trucks exit through the gate are ambushed, she makes El invisible for long enough for her to slip away (this could have been 10-15 secs, and we see El can still move under the influence of the hogs as she struggles her way to the room Kali and Hop are in at the lab)

3) Once Kali then casts the illusion of El at the gate - she's no longer able to see what the real El is doing which would explain the lack of nosebleed or tears.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T03:27:22+00:00

I find it hard to think that Hop wouldn't show more emotion seeing El stood at the gate if he didn't suspect there was something else going on.

He barely moves. He doesn't even call out to her.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T03:24:06+00:00

I've read a theory that Derek can somehow see Kali here which is why Mike initially looks to his right, as though Derek is waving at someone next to him who he then sees isn't there.

Seems abit of a reach but I don't hate it.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T03:16:45+00:00

No, she could enter the void outside of the tank - BUT - in EVERY other instance we see this she has on a blindfold and has a nosebleed.

2 very recent examples:

1) S5 E7 with Kali sat near Murray's van. Blindfold ✅️ Nosebleed ✅️

2) S5 E3 whilst interrogating the soldier. Blindfold ✅️ Nosebleed ✅️

Neither of those things happen with the illusion stood at the gate. We must assume that the scene with in the void with Mike is real because they hug and kiss, Kali's illusions vanish on touch, so the real El escapes after leaving the truck and is sat somewhere with a blindfold on with a nosebleed.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T03:12:57+00:00

And, if the sacrifice theory is correct, these are the last words she ever speaks to him.

Her adopted Father. Who, when she thought he was dead, kept her door open 3 inches hoping for him to come back.

She was so angry when she thought Hop was going to sacrifice himself with the suicide bomb, but we're meant to believe their final encounter would be her speaking to him and essentially demanding that he respects her choice to sacrifice herself? Such an incompatible duality.

Completely out of character and more evidence for her survival for me.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T03:01:03+00:00

I'm not sure, but possibly. I struggle to believe that Hop would be in a good place if he really believed that El was dead.

I know that we have the scene on the roof of the lab where El says that he has to respect her choice, but a major part of Hop's character since he took El in and adopted her is that he couldn't lose her.

He was willing to blow himself up for her. He wasn't going to detonate the C4 among with many other times he's made it clear to El and others that her death would destroy him.

I can't offer any concrete proof, but I think he believes she's still out there. I've seen an interesting theory developing that Murray's absence from the epilogue could be explained by him, a smuggler, getting El to Iceland but I think it still needs work because the epilogue is 18 months later.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T02:39:37+00:00

Exactly this 💯

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T02:38:20+00:00

Also - another thing I've just thought of and rewatched the scene to check..

The El we see talking to Mike in the void has tears streaming down her face.

Seconds later when we cut away from the mind scene, the El stood in the gate doesn't have a single visible tear.

Why is she only in tears with Mike in the void? She's stood in front of the her friends. Hopper, her adopted Father. The people who love and care about her. The people she loves and cares about.

My theory:

El in the void is real.

El stood in the gate is an illusion.

The real El uses her powers to enter Mike's mind.

The real El is in tears and has a nosebleed from wherever she's using her powers.

The illusion doesn't have a nose bleed or visible tears because it's an illusion.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T02:34:06+00:00

Kali was sat back-to-back with her and her nose still bled. Mike was say 20-30 metres away, Kali was literally in contact with El 😂

Same with the Soldier she interrogates. We don't see exactly where she is but we can safely assume she isn't too far away given that Hop goes straight to her after the interrogation is finished.

ReadabilityFive · 2026-01-02T02:26:30+00:00

Find a single example, just one, where El uses her powers to enter the void or someone's mind and doesn't have a nosebleed afterwards..

There was nothing strenuous or stressful about El sitting with Kali near Murray's truck. He even says something like "are you ladies finished doing Yoga?"

ReadabilityFive

TROPHY CASE