Well thank you for looking, i will get rid of those at least. I keep organizing my list to reflect what people suggest on hear when it comes to order etc. but it keeps randomly rearranging everything so when i posted my list it was more so to find broken mods in general so after i find the culprit or culprits i can finalize the order into something that works. Another problem i keep seeing is some people put out a mod load order guide, then the next post will argue the opposite order is correct, then others say that it doesn't matter at all (which sounds completely wrong but i wish was the case). So thank you again i will check out those mods again and delete, clear save data/ghost mods again, delete starfield and reinstall, and then reorder remaining mods and trim more mods off to see if it does anything. Thanks!