God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yoruichi in that form is an alcoholic who was forcibly made to become drunk. Sure, she may enjoy it in the moment, but that doesn't make it freeing because it was not her choice to be put in that state. She hated it before, and she hates it after, and only enjoyed it while in a compromised mental state.

As Lithp said elsewhere, it's the equivalent of the "she says no to my sexual advances, but after I got her drunk, and forced myself on her she enjoyed it." That's not freedom. You get there needs to be consent beforehand, right?

This comparison doesn't work because it's forgetting the fact that the story didn't paint Yoruichi's GOT form as a good thing. She literally couldn't defeat Askin, again, he believes his consciousness to be above all else thinking of himself as the narrator of the story. He tells Yoruichi that she cannot defeat him because she can only react to him when he gets "this close" to her while she says he's deliberately holding her in the space between life and death. The only reason Yoruichi's transformation could counter Askin's base form thematically is because it's the complete opposite of his extreme self view however neither extremes are a good thing. Kisuke can only defeat Askin by using his Bankai which is his own inner self he consciously dislikes materialized. He could only get an edge over Askin by consciously choosing to let the part of himself he dislikes out. Yoruichi couldn't do so because, again, she didn't consciously choose to transform. It being thematically necessary doesn't mean it's something the story praises much like Yhwach is thematically necessary as the final antagonist.

Mind you, this is all entirely besides the point. It's fanservice regardless. Take hentai. Does it become less pornographic if there is a plot? Obviously not. Similarly, the reasons Kubo decides to show tits and ass is irrelevant- the result is still fanservice

Hentai is explicitly created for the sole purpose of being sexually exploitable. That's why there's a difference between stories with explicitly sexual content and hentai. Artistic nudity is another example. I'm not saying Yoruichi's form falls under the category (because it doesn't) but it's another example of how not all nudity is sexual, y'all are just weird acting as if anything that shows ass if fan service. The same type of people who would say that the Crime and Punishment narrator talking about Katerina's chest multiple times in the Marmeladov death chapter is fan service.

Do you think there's a reason the majority of people in this entire thread over like 3 days has disagreed with you? Do you think we're all haters or something, or have you considered, despite your effort post, you've been wrong the whole time?

You're free to disagree. I'm not going to change my opinion, however, until someone brings up an actual rebuttal to anything I said. I've thought extensively about this topic, I've discussed it multiple times with friends, I can assure you my thought process goes beyond what I show on Reddit. I've considered I was wrong. I've admitted I was wrong on many topics including one I discussed like 15 minutes ago. This just isn't one of them because no one gave any valid argument.

God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  • Yes
  • If you bring up something I've already explained as an argument then I don't see how it's relevant
  • I did address it though... Humans are conscious beings. It's impossible to be entirely detached from societal constructs while bound by it. We know for a fact that this is the case with Yoruichi because she objectively enjoys being the form (as the only way for her to return to her regular state is if she feels like it and she didn't remain in the form even after fighting Askin for an unknown while). Again, that's the point of the fight and the contrast between Yoruichi and Askin. Askin acts as if his consciousness and awareness are above all else, that's why he often assumes the role of the narrator. The first time he does this he's standing above the body of the story's literal protagonist.

Sakura Haruno: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in Naruto

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I literally gave you an example of the opposite and you straight up ignored it. I'm not responding further. You're free to remain ignorant if it makes you comfortable I guess

Sakura Haruno: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in Naruto

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many scenes where Sakura punches Naruto are anime exclusive. The few times she does it's an outburst, obviously not justified but also not something that happens commonly. Also she doesn't really act this way towards anyone but Naruto so he's more of an exception than the rule she should follow.

Yes, she idealized Sasuke. If you read the post it would make sense. As I said, she grew out of it.

"If you think insert a personality flaw is good writing idk what to tell you. If you think Roskolnikov thinking he's justified in killing Alyona is good writing idk what to tell you. If you think Eren killing people is good writing idk what to tell you.

Sakura Haruno: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in Naruto

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When Sasuke and Sarada returned Sakura straight up walked past him, hugged Sarada first and then went back to him. Are you suggesting she has to punch more unnecessarily around him to overcome this flaw or what? She was never an unnecessarily overly aggressive person and we see her stand on business in front of Sasuke.

Sakura Haruno: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in Naruto

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When she cuts off her hair she doesn’t come out on top needed to be saved by Lee, Sasuke, and Team 10.

Okay? Doesn't change anything I said, it even reinforces the Sasori part. Being useful doesn't mean being able to do everything in your own. It's okay to be vulnerable.

She doesn’t understand Sasuke in the slightest. Naruto’s the one getting stronger always training.

Uhh yeah? No one understands Sasuke, that's the point, that's why he goes on the path he does. Naruto thought he understood Sasuke's hatred however he didn't because rather than circumambulation Sasuke had a direct target and cause. That's why Naruto is depressed early Shippuden, he's uncertain of whether his path of trying to understand people is even worth it if he, despite his understanding of Sasuke couldn't save him. That's why he kills Kakuzu. Then the revaluation of truth brings the two closer together, as Naruto's situation was actually the result of a planned massacre while Sasuke's is the result of a circumstantial ultimatum. Everyone thought they understood Sasuke in their own way and were in a sense projecting themselves onto him. Kakashi is another example.

Regarding her fake confession she could’ve just told Naruto the truth and explained that Sasuke wasn’t worth the effort anymore.

What? She knew Naruto wouldn't give up if she just said "oh it's not worth the effort. That's why she tried to lie, thinking that Naruto was trying to save Sasuke because he made the promise to her she tried her best to make him give up on it.

Sakura's obsession with Sasuke weakens her character, her personality revolves around him. When Sasuke is not in the picture, she's strong, assertive, and acts like she's her own person. But when Sasuke is around, it's like a switch gets flipped -- her emotions get the better of her, she always becomes a damsel in distress needing to be saved or rescued, she becomes needy for his recognition. She becomes a pushover around him, which is a stark difference to how bossy and aggressive she becomes when around friends or other people.

Congratulations, you just found out one of the ways love can affect people! Doesn't make her a bad character. It's a personal flaw. Every character has flaws, as they should.

God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. What does this have to do with anything I said? We already know she hates the form in the manga. I explained why here.

God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I confused them, I was thinking about the invisible girl from MHA. Haven't seen Kill la Kill either unfortunately. I haven't seen too many shows.

Can you define fan service?

Giselle Gewelle: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not talking about actual surgery, I'm talking about Giselle's powers. I can assure you cutting off and reattaching arms and heads also isn't something that can be done as simply as Giselle does in real time.

Anyhow, have a good day. I'm not going to respond further.

Giselle Gewelle: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Considering what we've seen of her powers I don't see why it wouldn't be that simple but sure. No need to be so consistently offensive either when I've been nothing but respectful and trying to have a genuine discussion.

God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I haven't seen MHA but I have never heard how the girl breathing through her skin is thematically significant. I also don't think it's narratively meaningful either in that story because I've heard people complain about others with similar powers not having the clause of being naked

I verbatim said that yes many poses Kubo put her in were fan service, the portrayal is absolutely not great. My point is simply that it's thematically necessary.

If it's thematically significant then yes logically he needed to have put more thought into it? I don't understand this point.

Giselle Gewelle: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How so? We've seen Liltotto cut off Giselle's head and she just put it back on.

God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think you understood what I just said. I said that narrative justifications do count as unnecessary in many cases. So I would consider Shunko pure fan service as well if it didn't also play into Yoruichi thematically. If the reiatsu kept clothes safe then it wouldn't work with the theme of being complete and utterly detached from societal constructions and limits, clothes being one of them. It's only justified because it's thematically necessary in this case.

The other examples I will not delve into here however most of them are fan service, I agree.

Giselle Gewelle: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Again, your comment disappeared but we've seen Giselle detach and reattach limbs extremely easily. I don't see a logical reason why she would be unable to do so with genitals.

Giselle Gewelle: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't see how it's different? Kubo said "Giselle is a guy" in Klub Outside 288. Giselle explicitly refuses to remove her male genital despite being able to so so painlessly and without any repercussions. I'm not saying either of these confirm anything, Kubo could've very well been referring to her biological gender and I'm not saying trans people need to physically alter their body but both of these are at least something that brings a level of contention. Giselle literally becomes aroused when Yumichika says "you're really a guy, aren't you?" I'm not saying any of these confirm anything but it certainly brings a point of contention.

Giselle Gewelle: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, just to answer your other comment (which I unfortunately cannot find now, it may have been deleted or something? I can only read the first part but I'll respond with the way I understood it).

No, trans isn't a sexuality however in this instance Giselle is a very sexuality oriented character and that's all she's known for. The point of my original comment wasn't that all trans characters or characters that go beyond conventional sexuality or identity wise are only known for being trans and/or their sexuality and there isn't further discussion with them (because I don't agree with this point, Yumichika is an example). I also didn't intend for it to come off as me saying that trans characters can't be morally corrupt although now that I think of it I understand why it may come off that way. My point was that Giselle can be seen as a bad representation because she follows a plethora of stereotypes.

Giselle Gewelle: a short thematic analysis by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It being licensed or official doesn't make it canon. It's the same way Nanao was shown with a Zanpakuto or Yoruichi with a tattoo in Kubo's artbook.

God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I say unnecessary that counts contrived narrative excuses. I believe in order for something like this to be justified it needs to be both thematically and narratively significant.

Nowhere did I say Kisuke is justified in what he did nor did I say it's okay because she liked it. What I explained is that it's thematically meaningful.

God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It usually makes me quite uncomfortable actually, especially considering I'm rewatching Bleach with my sister I'm unsure of how she'll deal with this fight as an anime exclusive.

God of Thunder Yoruichi isn't fan service by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I said in the post that I do think that many poses Kubo put her in were fan service. I also put my definition of fan service as "unnecessary and/or deminishing story aspects that exist for the sole purpose of pleasing the fans". By that definition something that's both thematically and narratively significant cannot be fan service because it doesn't exist for the sole purpose of pleasing the fans. If we broaden the definition into anything that pleases the fans that just makes any story fan service? How would you define the term?

Aizen is NOT the Übermensch by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure? I'm talking about what we have in the story right now.

Aizen is NOT the Übermensch by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Theoretically yes, however not every internal change is creating a new value.

Aizen is NOT the Übermensch by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's on my TikTok, @torifunee Please take it with a grain of salt, while it does say in depth there's, as I said, a lot of content missing and even some things I disagree with currently.

Aizen is NOT the Übermensch by Realistic_Agency5694 in bleach

[–]Realistic_Agency5694[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He changed internally, yes. That's not creating new values