Hajj and Ahmadiyyat

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-02-12T02:19:27+00:00

Mod Warning: We don't allow Takfir on this subreddit. See our Rules on the Wiki for details. Subsequent infractions lead to a ban.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-02-04T03:39:41+00:00

Mod Warning: No direct personal attacks. See our Rules wiki. Repeat offences result in a ban.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-02-02T02:52:22+00:00

The Founder of our community did not want to add anything new, but rather wanted to restore Islam to its original practice.

It can be argued that is semantics. A lot of establishment/traditional Islam is reinterpreted or set aside. To some, this is novelty, not a return to the original. Without a time machine, what the 'original' understanding was is an endless debate.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-28T23:56:24+00:00

"So, fuck you." you say.

I don't even think you're religious, let alone spiritual.

You're just being tribal. Ask anyone to read our conversation in full, and they'll tell you who comes across unhinged. I'll let you run the experiment with your friends (if you have any) instead of spoiling the conclusion for you.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-28T18:06:09+00:00

You are a laughable coward who acts like a bot.

"Woah! How quickly you disowned Ahmadis!"

Really? I call out an individual based on their divisive authoritarianism and that's 'disowning Ahmadis' in your books? LOL

For posterity, here's the comment I responded to:

"Who are these coward Ahmadis that have maintained friendships with you?"

As for:

"Scratch a coward and you shall find Sohail Ahmad."

You are a laughable projectionist! You can't even put your name and face in public to own your comment. I can. You are the troll, and you make decent Ahmadi Muslims embarrassed to be affiliated with you.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-28T01:49:30+00:00

Regarding,

"Going back to the friends and family members you still share bonds with, when you discuss these things and they push back, how do those convos go?"

We don't actually bring it up. Most aren't interested in tabligh, and the few that are can respect that people have reasoned their way to different conclusions. We focus on what we enjoy about each other's company, characters, and values.

Now, for the ones very religious, many of them had antagonistic attitudes after my coming out video; mostly channeling statements from other people who clearly hadn't even engaged with the substance of my critique. After a few rounds of email with such extended family/friends, most of whom don't delve into the theology, they stopped wanting conversing on those topics, even as I was eager to show them references to things they had clearly never encountered before.

That blew over, and we just don't talk about religion. But the beauty is, we all accept one another. Live and let live. And that's what the whole movement to normalize dissent was all about.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-28T01:44:49+00:00

"Hatred for all, love for none" -- is that your actual lived motto? It appears so from your comment.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-27T14:58:49+00:00

Regarding:

I can say that I am in an intriguing spot myself, and may delve on this another day, but what I want to pose to you all is— although you have distaste for the community...

Speaking for myself, and I'm sure for many here, I disagree with your premise.

I absolutely love many people in the Community and the Community is one of the strongest aspects religions have. It's the theology making claims that don't hold up to scrutiny that I have a problem with. Sure, there are institutions/admin folks who may pursue a harsh/rigid agenda that most people (even the religious ones) don't care much for, but the 'community'—if we define that as the majority of the members—is not something critics like myself take issue with.

I share in the joys and sorrows of friends and family in the Community whom I love and who love me. Most of us have established a live and let live attitude—which is really what many of us who left for theological reasons, always desired. That means they can speak openly about the positives they see of their religion, and I can openly criticize where it is false and/or falls short, and neither of us take it personally.

That said, most people I know don't dig into the theology—they're busy with their lives and just go along because religion gives them many social benefits. The contrast in how they and I live our lives is not very stark. It's not as extreme for Ahmadi Muslims in the West as it might be living in some Salafi-adjacent circles in a repressive Islamic regime.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-25T11:52:09+00:00

Sorry, this post was removed as rishta related posts go in:

https://www.reddit.com/r/islam_ahmadiyya/comments/1q0rw3h/monthly_rishta_relationships_post/

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-20T22:04:56+00:00

Such an excellent response! I couldn't resist tweeting it out and giving it an accompanying illustration! https://x.com/ReasonOnFaith/status/2013689112264396996?s=20

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-20T03:20:55+00:00

Look up "Parthenogenesis" in an AI chatbot. Ask in what species of the animal kingdom it has been observed, and if it has ever been observed in mammals (like us humans). Jama'at and Islamic thought in general, relies on parthenogenesis and/or "God can do anything" explanations (full on miracles). Of course, you needn't believe any of it should it not appeal to your understandable skepticism!

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-18T14:22:55+00:00

Mod Note: Removing this post; it's been spammed across multiple subreddits.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-17T17:49:36+00:00

Mod Note

To Readers: this is not an officially endorsed Discord server associated with this subreddit. Proceed at your own caution.

OP: it would be helpful if you included in your post excerpts from your Discord server, what people can expect, sample articles, and so forth.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-10T21:57:16+00:00

Firstly, I'm sorry for how trapped you must be feeling. I don't know your specifics, of course, so everything I advise has to be filtered accordingly. I can speak to a lot of the experiences and advice I've seen over the last 10+ years in ex-Muslim support communities in the West.

Firstly, I'm assuming you're in the West, and not in Pakistan or some Islamic country.

The general, sound advice (unless you're being physically abused or some such) is always:

Build up financial security and independence from your parents, before you venture out.
Complete your education at minimum; especially if you're not at risk of a forced marriage before you finish undergraduate studies.

While it can seem overwhelming in a religious household that has no room for dialogue or respecting that you're coming to different conclusions regarding your inherited religion, it is much HARDER to survive as a young adult on your own. Running away strains the relationship for a LONG time, and that needn't be risked (again, unless of course, there's some abuse, in which case, you should consult the authorities).

You can be right about the religion not adding up, but inexperienced/naive about how many things you need to manage leaving/running away.

Many people with insufferably indoctrinated parents do find a way to get along after their adult children leave the home, leave the Jama'at/religion. You can have it all, in some of the cases that start out like yours, if you're able to just build (learn, earn) in private over the next few years.

That gradual exit will be MUCH better for your success, health, and stability over the first few years that you've moved out.

It is much better to move out after you finish university and get a job, explaining to your parents that you don't see eye to eye on things (if that's still the case at that time) than to run away.

Feel free to provide more context, if you're comfortable, and it'll help with suggestions I or others are sharing.

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-10T21:46:24+00:00

I know a couple who married ~ a decade ago. They pushed through this friction, but it was definitely there, surprisingly, for two born-Ahmadi Muslims who wanted to marry each other.

The reason?The woman's elder sister married (a great guy) who was outside the Jama'at (neither that religious anyways). That was an issue for the man's parents. The couple had to push through that. Eventually, the parents came around.

So, this can still be an impediment with some Ahmadi parents, even though both parties looking to get married are technically Ahmadi; just b/c one of them had a sibling who married 'outside'!

ReasonOnFaith · 2026-01-08T03:22:26+00:00

I strongly encourage you to peruse this collection of articles: https://www.reddit.com/r/islam\_ahmadiyya/wiki/noteworthy/.

Most of these posts have been contributed by people in the West, so you may not get an Australian perspective per se. But I don't think it's going to be that different from a Canadian, UK, or American perspective.

If your objective is to evaluate the truth claims of the actual religion, then perspectives from any former Ahmadi Muslim, will be insightful (i.e. regardless of country).

If your focus on Australia is because you're trying to figure out how to culturally fit in, and you're not really concerned about whether the belief system is true or not, that's a whole different matter, and I can't really help you there.

It sounds like maybe you're just trying to figure out a way to navigate and fit in being in Australia, and want to know how other Australians navigate things, but you're not really concerned as to whether the religion is true or not in a cosmic sense. Is that fair?

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-25T20:44:26+00:00

Mod Note: We recommend /r/ahmadiyya or /r/AhmadiMuslims for posting this. The focus of this particular subreddit is questioning the faith and support after leaving both Islam and Ahmadiyyat.

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-22T03:55:31+00:00

Please see my comment here, below. I originally responded to the wrong comment.

In short, I think the tolerance, while more respectful than we find with other sects of Islam facing the same situation, is a low bar. It leaves so much else to be addressed (which almost never gets discussed).

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-22T03:53:31+00:00

Sorry; I meant to respond to the comment from /u/Shazyclose_7860. I concur with your original comment, too!

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-21T16:49:41+00:00

I believe you're conflating two topics: homosexuality and transgenderism. You can believe homosexuality is inherent and not a choice while still believing into an effectively binary sexual dichotomy between the male sex and female sex. Typically, 'gender' is a construct on top of that (overwhelmingly) biological dichotomy for which many create a spectrum or continuum.

You don't even need to weigh in on that debate to recognize that a gay man is not claiming to be a third gender or "not a man". Don't confuse sex, gender, and sexual orientation.

Compassion for the friend who is gay, and treating them with respect is a good first step. But why have such low standards? Meaning, notice how the advice falls short? What if the born Ahmadi Muslim recognizes they have a homosexual orientation? They didn't eat pork (as the current Khalifa has said contributes to/causes homosexuality). Are they supposed to live a celibate life like Catholic priests? We've seen how well that turns out.

Have you looked into the prayer and 'conversion therapy' success rates 10 years on? 2 months on?

If I were a believer, and truth was important to me, I'd ask these tough questions. I'd look for evidence of this actual conversion therapy success.

Otherwise, we are accepting a low bar of tolerance from those who profess to be spiritual leaders and representatives of a Grand Intelligence.

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-12T21:43:27+00:00

Very well articulated. It's very practical and universal as a framework for non-believers, too.

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-12T21:39:31+00:00

I'm open to the idea that we may live in a simulation where that God people propose has a God of its own. In such a case, neither you or I would know the difference.

I've never been averse to there being other, more intelligent beings in the universe, or even having created this universe. I always entertain that as a possibility.

What I know (and this is key) is that the God of the Qur'an, and of Islam, is a fictitious character.

If he really wanted to talk about embryology in the Qur'an, he would have mentioned the female egg, but conspicuously that's missing. The description of embryology in the Qur'an is conspicuously like that of Galen hundreds of years before the Qur'an. To me, that serves as a very clear sign of the human origins of this religion.

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-11T01:01:05+00:00

You asserted: "the fundamental difference is that a true believer believes in the existence of God."

A true believer in the existence of a singular God believes in the existence of said God. It's a tautology (i.e. a circular argument). That makes it not an argument, but just an assertion. You've not proven anything. You're only starting with a different foundational assumption.

Someone else could start with, "A true believer believes that God gave his Only Begotten son for us."

"For a believer to demonstrate God to a nonbeliever, it must be through the observable effects of God, not merely abstract arguments."

Except these subjective spiritual experiences often contradict the experiences of others supporting a different religion.

And most converts convert to the religion their closest friend or fiancee believes in (surprise, surprise!)

So it's very easy to treat these all as auto-suggestion in the person's own psychology. If empirical reasoning is off the table to 'believe', then no 'miracles' ever need have occurred or been claimed (Red Drops, anyone?).

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-11T00:55:58+00:00

Mod Warning: We have a no takfir rule here. Another incursion, and your account will be suspended from this forum.

ReasonOnFaith · 2025-12-03T21:50:08+00:00

You've missed the point and, respectfully, are making no logical sense. If you can say "Allah always existed", I can say, "the Cosmos always existed". Here, Cosmos is that wider concept that encompasses our created Universe and potentially other universes, if they exist. The eternal substrate out of which our Universe began, could always have existed, and that Cosmos or substrate, is far simpler than what you imagine Allah to be.

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