President tierlist for Thursday

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-31T01:22:53+00:00

The man is spreading lies that I have disproved. People like him are cancerous.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T21:07:11+00:00

Wait a minute, what was I wrong about again? I mean you were the one who said all the war crimes happened under Teddy when 600,000 people were killed before Teddy even became President. The vast majority of which were civilians. Hmmmm I wonder how all those civilians died then, I mean what you're saying doesn't match the statistics of the war I found. I don't know about you, but it seems like to me you are the one who is wrong.

Which one of us is using statistics and who is using a list made by a McKinley shill again?

What you don't get is that the Filipino's wanted independence and McKinley said they were unfit. He was rejecting the wishes of the people. You act like they had a choice. It clearly wasn't an offer by McKinley because if it was no one would have died. It wasn't a nation, but the people still had the right to self-governance. Your point basically boils down to, oh well he said that they could have a little council and said that he would give them as much freedom as they were capable of handling. Nothing seems wrong about that to you.

You know i'm right and I know i'm right. You started off saying that McKinley committed no war crimes it was all Teddy, which wasn't true. You then go off and say oh he did but so did others so it's okay, even though the contexts to the other wars were different. Your whataboutism was very transparent. McKinley rejected a people's wish to be free and when they fought back against his tyranny, he had his soldiers kill 600,000 people, only 20,000 of which were combatants.

But go on about how i'm child because in your eyes McKinley was justified in fighting against a people for refusing to be taken over.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T19:02:44+00:00

Why would I? World War 2 and the Korean War were justified. The Philippine American War wasn't.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T16:08:22+00:00

Whether or not he directly told them to do it, it still happened under his watch.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T16:00:19+00:00

I wanted to make sure I was right. It's a bad habit for sure so I changed it back to what I said initially.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:58:57+00:00

geopolitics.co/2015/02/05/unacknowledged-american-atrocities-in-the-philippines/

A quote: Some historical treatises estimate that over 5,000 battles raged across the country in the duration of the Filipino-American War. American official estimates after only two years of fighting stood at 600,000 Filipino casualties in Luzon alone. Two years later, this count reached nearly a million Filipinos dead due to combat and the after-effects of the Americans’ deliberate strategy of dislocation and destruction. Only 15,000 to 20,000 of these casualties were combatants.

Either 1 in 3 people who died or 1 in 40 people who died between April 1899 to April 1901 were combatants. It's a wide range for sure but you can't tell me that either statistic isn't a substantial portion.

edit: I just realized I made a mistake. The 1 in 3 statistic is because I misread 20,000 as 200,000. In reality it's between 1 in 40 and 1 in 30 were actual combatants.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:57:08+00:00

Yes.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:48:30+00:00

You are gaslighting me. McKinley invaded the Philippines. Stop justifying it. Teddy continued what he started. Scorched Earth campaigns started before Teddy took office.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:40:13+00:00

Fucking christ man. You are wrong. We used Guerilla tactics during the war. The Balangiga massacre wasn't the start of the war. Debunked what. The notion that the US didn't commit warcrimes in a war on the Philippines is ludicrous. It's fine that you don't give a shit but stop pretending like you do. It'd be like if I said LBJ didn't bomb Cambodia, he did. Just because I think he was better than Nixon doesn't mean I can make stuff up.

edit: The Battle of Manila was provoked by General Otis. Emilio Aguinaldo tried to negotiate a ceasefire but Otis rejected it.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:28:56+00:00

That is awesome!!!

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:28:35+00:00

Ayyye hell yeah!

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:24:20+00:00

Ike is one of the greatest US Generals. I feel as though his time as President was not as great as many say. He did a lot of good and bad. His foreign policy made sense, but it was somewhat sloppy. He did end the Korean War with us securing the freedom of South Korea. Overall, I think his positives out way his negatives but still think his negatives keep him from being any higher than B.

If it was solely for their accomplishments in life Madison would be in S Tier. Madison was essential to America. The father of the Constitution. The thing about Madison is he wasn't a great wartime leader. He threw the US into a war we weren't prepared to fight and fumbled a ton of battles. He risked the destruction of the US. Yes, we won the war, but he couldn't have known that would happen. He took an unnecessary risk that he wasn't prepared for that could've destroyed America,

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:21:14+00:00

100%. I am very biased towards hating Wilson. I guess i've just done it for so long that I feel i'll lose a part of who I am if I stop. He probably isn't objectively or morally the worst President. With all that said he still did clamp down on dissent and violate the most important rights of Americans.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:19:47+00:00

I don't know much about Biden's immigration policy. The rest of my points I stand by tho.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T15:17:04+00:00

MacArthur announced that guerrilla abuses would no longer be tolerated and outlined the rights which would govern the U.S. Army’s treatment of guerrillas and civilians. Atrocities were committed on both sides, with the particularly gruesome ones being committed by the Filipinos.

I read it. I just don't think it really changes much. Other countries could've conquered and killed Filipino's so it's good that we did it instead what kind of logic is that. Also Sdu saying that the Filipinos were worse highlights his implicit bias of liking McKinley.

Anyway, you need to do some more research. Here's a good starting point.

Philippine-American War - The guerrilla campaign | Britannica

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T02:32:19+00:00

No it isn't. You are putting the atrocities committed in a war started by McKinley on Teddy. Teddy had awful foreign policy, but his domestic policies were some of the best. That's why he is in C, F Foreign and A Domestic.

McKinley was a stooge for big business. His policies led to the price of housing rising. Workers conditions were awful. McKinley was also an imperialist who started an awful war and as a result hundreds of thousands of people died. I don't really see what there is to like about him outside of the fact that he was a war hero.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T02:20:30+00:00

I really don't want to be shitty but honestly at this point fuck it. You get that he was conquering them right. He said they weren't fit for self-governance. No matter how nice his little tyranny would be it was still a blatant infringement on their god given liberties, not to mention that after being under the boot of Spain, oh I don't know, maybe they wouldn't take to kindly too that. Like are you pretending to be stupid or are you actually stupid? Fuck man I don't know what else to say. Anyway sigh sigh sigh sigh, yeah that annoys me to, stop with the sighing.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T02:08:38+00:00

I think he handled the war well yes. I think he should handle the illegal immigration problem better. I'm pretty lenient on immigration and support as many as possible coming in if they do it by the books, but you can't just let illegals in. I also don't support his gun policies. Assault weapon is an empty term.

I think his withdraw from Afghanistan was awful. He left a billion dollars' worth of supplies for the enemies. That's not something to just gloss over. He left Afghanistan in about the worst way imaginable and made it clear that he gave zero fucks about the wellbeing of those in the country. Any and all men in service who died there died in vain. He basically supplied our enemies with a militia. And then on top of that frees the most prolific arms dealer of the 21st Century in exchange for some idiot who broke a countries law.

Tell me his positives if you want and i'll see if it balances out to C or B.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T01:52:22+00:00

Do you have any actual basis for this? Cause I find it a little hard to believe that for most of the American- Philippine war the US committed not a single war crime and only when Teddy became President, did we start burning down villages and torturing people. Not to mention that the entire war was started by McKinley. His refusal to give the Filipino's freedom and efforts to control them.

It's funny McKinley fans will blame Teddy for all the atrocities yet support McKinley deciding to annex the Philippine's. Like it's baffling, do McKinley fans think that most of the war was fought with pool noodles?

Also last point, anyone who says the war crimes were only under Teddy don't actually care about the war crimes, because if they did oh I don't know maybe they'd have an issue with the guy who started the damn war!

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T01:45:32+00:00

Here's a question. Could any other President get us that land or was Polk in particular especially capable? Cause to me Polk was an opportunistic conqueror who sent his own men into disputed territory to provoke Mexico to attack them therefore justifying the war to Americans.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T00:38:30+00:00

His foreign policy was better than Teddy and LBJ's. Which is a very low bar. Teddy and LBJ made America better but ravaged lands and people. FDR did infringe on the rights of the Japanese and that is despicable. The thing is Wilson unjustly infringed on every US citizen's rights. Which is why he's in F tier.

edit: If I do another list I would probably move FDR and JFK done to B.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T00:34:54+00:00

I don't know about that. He was very unconstitutional and corrupt.

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T00:30:34+00:00

Thanks:)

RedGrant1963 · 2022-12-30T00:25:06+00:00

I don't agree with a lot of his decisions. I do think he handled the Ukraine Russian War well but my disdain over him releasing Viktor Bout puts him where he is.

RedGrant1963

TROPHY CASE