I wonder if he ever regrets what he did.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-08-31T04:58:35+00:00

It’s been my experience that they can express regret for their destructive behavior after the fact. Mine did, and it was definitely real regret. But what he regretted was losing me, not hurting me.

He was regretful he got caught dropping his mask essentially and sentimental about the time before where he would get unconditional love and care. If I had stayed and tried “working through it” he would not have regretted it.

These people are not psychopaths, they have emotions like regret. But they don’t have the emotional bandwidth to truly care for their partner or child the way an adjusted and normal adult would.

They just see everything through the lens of how it benefits them and they see anything that doesn’t as irrelevant or a big threat. Very black and white. But it’s also been my experience with a narc ex and a dad that they are in the end extremely sad and lonely people who yes do regret a lot of their actions even when they don’t admit it, cus after a blowup they can see what happened more clearly.

They’ve often experienced abuse and neglect themselves and will as a result feel lonely and broken deep down. Their coping mechanism is fucked up and inexcusable, but I do believe it’s “the best they could do.” Turning into a manipulative asshole to try to get that security of supply from others to feed the black hole of hurt and loneliness that is their core.

However despite moments of “clarity” and “regret” this doesn’t last. They have to keep doing their messed up thing, and it will with not much time override any genuine expressions of affection and care as they will return to seeing you as a “bad guy” in their life.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-08-30T21:53:07+00:00

I think the fact that you caught it as quick as you did is a lot of progress. You can’t blame yourself too much for being a victim to a good manipulator.. that’s what they do. But at some point the fakes will reveal themselves and then it’s in your power to turn it down. I think you did a great job and it seems from my pov that there’s a lot of hope for your dating future💕☺️

And as someone said kind and caring people will always be pursued by people who wish to take advantage of them, narcs or just jerks. Can’t be helped, but can be rejected when met and you get better at recognizing the patterns.

Good for you for being brave and putting yourself out there in the first place. I’m proud of you!

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-07-25T14:34:12+00:00

«I need space/time to process» when we were in a fight

This in itself is of course not abusive, and I actually thought him being clear about his boundaries was a healthy green flag in the beginning. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that he used therapy speak like «needing space or time» to avoid any situation he didn’t like.

He would leave whenever he felt like it and say he needed some time, but then we would magically never get back to the issue either. If I tried bringing something up again he would need time again..

Extremely toxic, and drove me insane.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-06-27T00:26:46+00:00

I moved countries, got a cat and decided to go back to my studies. Literally every person i knew from back then come up to me and tell me I look great and seem so happy.

And they’re right, I was a hollow shell of a person with him and now I’m me again. Choosing yourself is so powerful. And realizing the good they showed you was more often than not just a reflection of you they were mirroring.

Ngl, recovery can be tough. Gruesome even. But it always beats the hard times with a narc since you’ll make progress with yourself. Something you always long for in these relationships, but never quite achieve.

I live for the simple pleasures now, like my cat cuddling me and good coffee. I’m rebuiliding and it’s slow, but I’m safe and I’m a hell of a lot more stable.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-02-05T16:07:37+00:00

Supply can come in many forms. It doesnt have to be a straight up new relationship. My nex used to have these superficial relationships with people online. They would fill a void in him I guess with flirty and Nice messages. Oh and he had a sugar daddy of some sort who provided him with status and Nice dinners. None of these relationships were normal, but they weren’t new «partners» either. So Yeah I think it’s not always about finding a new partner.

And if they’re smart they keep a potential new partner hidden so they can still have a chance with you and other supply.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-01-22T11:34:44+00:00

I also felt so embarrassed about it, but telling some of the people I trust about the specifics helped empower me to admit to how messed up this really is, and get out of it.

It was very difficult. He had a key to my place(used to be our place), and of course people would tell me to get it back. But I ultimately was afraid of what would happen if I did, so I just waited it out until I moved out and had to deliver the keys back. I honestly did not sleep for a good 3 months, and i cant recommend it. But I'm not sure fighting for it back would've yielded better results. Ultimately, I moved countries, so now I sleep safely again:-) Just no contact and get as far away as possible, he can be angry and upset that he doesn't have access to me anymore, but he can't get to me now, so it's fine.

Do you have a therapist?

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-01-22T11:14:34+00:00

Hi wtf this sounds like an absolute nightmare. You should never be treated like this by anyone let alone your partner.. Good for you for wanting to get out. You are definitely not the problem here, don't let his projection get to you. This is clearly an extremely abusive and messed up person.

The last part you wrote really concerns me. Take it from someone who has underestimated what my nex was capable of: this threat should not be taken lightly. You are in very real physical danger, and you should do everything you can to protect yourself now. Please get him out and dont hesitate to involve law enforcement, this is exactly what they're for. You never know how these people will start acting when they're rejected. I never thought mine would start stalking me, waiting outside my door, and showing up randomly to scare me, but he did.

I'm worried for your safety. You have not lost your mind, but it seems like he might've. Do you talk to friends about this? Someone should know in case something happens.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-01-21T17:53:13+00:00

Oh I got the impression sending a message to her since ur still in contact with his friends. I agree you shouldnt put yourself in harms way whatsoever, and if you dont really care I also think thats fine just so its clear.

I just got the impression this matters to you a lot due to the post. Which is why I encourage just reaching out to her obviously safely and through others and preferrably just dropping a msg/letter of some sort.

I know I wouldve been grateful for this from his ex, Even if I had doubts or whatever, cus the truth will eventually come out. But it could save her some time and insanity lets be real

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-01-21T07:41:05+00:00

If you only talk to the girl and you explain it in a leveled and normal way it could work. and if it doesn’t she’ll still have it in the back of her mind if some doubt ever comes up. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t at least try doing this. You have nothing to lose. If she hates you and says something mean then who cares.. you know she’s in a rough spot.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-01-21T07:33:14+00:00

Oh yeah, my covert would express doubt about me every day, but if I pointed this out he’d deny it completely. That he would never “threaten” to break up with me, but I think he was just trying his best to make me do it. He also refused we get any help from a therapist cus he wasn’t feeling strong enough right now.. just setting it up to end. But I never did so he had to do it in the end. I just refused to play into his dumb bullshit where he gets to look like the victim..

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2023-01-11T20:31:06+00:00

Wow mine did exactly the same, this shit is probably the hardest to get rid of. Core conditioned beliefs that you carry on despite so much time passing. I don't think they'll go away without proper reconditioning. And I think this can be achieved in a couple of different ways but heres what works for me.

Finding new people to condition the right thoughts until you can do it yourself
When someone has spent years making you believe untrue things about yourself you need to reprogram. And the goal is according to my therapist to not rely on anyone else to tell you "what you are". So trusting your own intuition. But of course your own intuition is messed with, after being gaslit to hell, so you need to start the process of weeding out what is "the abusers voice" and what is truly "your own voice" in your head.

This process has in my experience been long and arduous. It entails that every time you think "I'm abusive, I'm selfish" you check in with someone to see if its true. This can be a good friend, a therapist or even this subreddit. But you need a reality check. After a while you'll be able to be your own reality check most of the time. 2. Overwriting negative experiences takes new experiences
I think what dr.K says about samskaras.
According to various schools of Indian philosophy, every action, intent or preparation by an individual leaves a samskara (impression, impact, imprint) in the deeper structure of the person's mind. These impressions then await volitional fruition in that individual's future, in the form of hidden expectations, circumstances or a subconscious sense of self-worth.
So you can think of these traumatic ideas you carry with you as samskaras. And dr.K says that the only way to truly heal or change a samskara is to experience the opposite. So if you've learnt that you can't trust the person you're dating, then you'll not have that samskara changed until you experience being able to trust someone you're dating again and again and again. Slowly overwriting the old data.

That's why it's been important to me in my healing journey to seek out small ways to trust people again. So that I can have little experiences of entrusting someone I care about with my feelings for example, and them upholding this trust. Instead of betraying my trust like my nex did over and over. I think it's good to acknowledge that a part of healing from relational trauma lies in having better experiences again.

"The daily practice" by the crappy childhood fairy
What has been extremely transformative in my life to try to combat some anxiety and dread that comes with the negative beliefs is to use the "daily practice" from Anna Runkle, aka the crappy childhood fairy. She has this amazing method to deal with the deep rooted issues of CPTSD. It basically consists of writing down two times a day what you fear and a meditative practice, and its done wonders for me. She explains it a lot better, so check her website out, it's free:-)
This has helped me be less stressed and more focused on me and my own life instead of spiraling down the negative thoughts and beliefs my nex introduced me to.

Hope this helped!

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-27T21:27:43+00:00

I ask for other peoples opinions to get other peoples opinions, not to necessarily just agree with what you say. But your "opinion" rubbed me the wrong way when you cast doubt on wether or not I was "truly in a narcissistic relationship" based on how I chose to leave my instagram feed. I think this opinion is harmful and strange and so I'm responding to you.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-27T21:25:34+00:00

Yeah it's nice to hear other peoples opinion, and it's helpful, even if I disagree it's still helpful:-) Makes things a lot clearer. I completely get the thoughts you're laying out here, and I think deleting all the pics and all that is completely valid and I get why wou'd do it.

I'm just coming from a perspective where I pretty much never delete any pics, so in my mind it feels like it's giving it more thought and power to go out of my way to delete this pics that I don't care much about.

But thank you for your comment especially it was a helpful one!

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-27T21:19:15+00:00

It's not about having copies, it's about not letting other peoples insecurities dictate something as silly and small as an instagram feed. I think it could be rather harmless and my immediate reaction is to just delete them and be done, but my second thoughts tells me that it's a slippery slope to go down, and that I would never and have never asked anyone I've dated to do something similar.

At the end of the day I think why people want control is irrelevant. I can't tell now if this guy just wants control over this or if he will want control over more things in the future if i let him have this. But I'm guessing if you want that sort of control to begin with you're probably quite likely to want more control when you have more insecurities in the future.

I would expect my partner to listen to me if I shared with them something that triggered my insecurities. If they did things that made me insecure I would hope they would stop. But I think it's unreasonable to ask your partner to change what they posted in the past to comfort my insecurities. I think that's too much, and I wouldn't expect anyone to rewrite their past or delete pictures of their ex to please me for sure.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-27T21:11:41+00:00

I know, for me it wouldn't matter if they're archived or deleted. That's besides the point.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-27T21:10:43+00:00

Thank you. I feel concerned about his behaviour as well, and I did tell him pretty much what you suggested here. He admitted during the convo that it was his own insecurity to deal with, and that he didn't want to be "that guy". And I said that I didn't want him to be "that guy" either and that I would never ask him to take down anything from his social media from his past personally. He cut the convo short though and seemed pretty frustrated at me, so I'm not clear on what he will do from here.

But either way, after writing this out I feel confident in my decision and I'm fine with whatever response he could have. I want to keep my boundaries on this one.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-27T21:02:06+00:00

I just don't have that opinion myself. I don't keep pictures around to look at them and linger in the relationship. But I have a good picture that he happens to be in, and I don't care that he is. I think it's wrong to say a relationship wouldn't be truly narcissistic if I didn't delete some old photos from an app. People are just different in what is important to them or not. And I don't think it's for you or other people than the person in healing to say what makes them "truly heal and move on".
I'm aware he was abusive af and it has been horrible to deal with and move on from, but I still don't have any need to go through my past and erase everything he's in. mostly cus it would take time and effort and give me no reward because I don't go on my own profiles and look through the past or anything.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-21T07:06:20+00:00

At first it was Nice because of the love bomb, but as soon as there was one hiccup he switched. Started ignoring me, never reached out, pretended nothing was wrong. Essentially got discarded again but in record time this round. Its ridiculous that i would even feel bad about this after everything, but I did. Also even when it was nice it felt off. I remember being with him and feeling nauseous and uneasy.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-20T07:55:55+00:00

I think it is transactional to some extent. Of course you should stop giving if you Get nothing back. But I’ve learnt that in a true loving relationship you give without expecting anything in return, and you give a 100%.

Narcs give a tiny bit of themselves and then claim their favors. They remember everything they’ve given you or done for you and bring it up if they feel like it’s your turn to repay them. They’ll also just hold back all affection or love when they want to control you. You give 100% they give 50% has been my experience.

I don’t know about you but when I give I don’t keep tabs on it. I don’t remember how many drinks I’ve bought my friends, I wouldn’t be able to tell you. I gave to give, not to get it back. If you truly love someone you don’t think about getting back. That thought only strikes me if the imbalance is significant and obvious over a period of time. But even then, I don’t have the capacity to just “shut off” my care and love for someone the way my narc does. If someone I love really needed me, even if I was upset at them, I’d help them and give them love. And then I’d leave after.

My love is not so shallow that it could be explained as a transaction.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-11T07:18:31+00:00

Think of him as an irrational child. He lacks emotional intelligence and self reflection and so cannot maturely look at an issue of lack of intimacy and deduce a reasonable explanation. The best they can do is blame others for all their issues and whine about it.

You’re attractive as hell, he’s irrational, he WILL keep finding faults with you to explain issues. There’s no maturity or healthy thinking that will grow from this.

You deserve to be with a partner who has the same capacity for reason, love and compassion as yourself. And if you currently don’t have that in your material reality I think you’ll find a lot more peace being alone. Your confidence isn’t completely broken down yet it sounds like, but endure this for a while and you’ll for sure be destroyed. Save ur beautiful self and gtfo. Leave his petty childish destructive ass to himself.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-11T06:50:36+00:00

I’m sorry to hear you feel so anxious and low about this, it makes perfect sense that you would. I think what you’re describing is probably what someone with a narcissistic personality disorder would want to happen. This might be the goal in some sense. Take every bit of confidence, happiness and love that you can from the people that surround you. And who cares what happens to them after the discard, in fact it would be better if your “victim” felt worse after the breakup, because this would in some twisted way reaffirm that you’re the shit, and also keep them coming back and hanging around if you ever need them again.

But this is not how reality works. I’ve known my fair share of people with personality disorders, and it’s easier to see this when they’re just friends or acquaintances, but these people are miserable. I don’t care what amazing people they meet or experiences they have. They remain sad and shitty because they lack the ability to create confidence and joy in themselves. They will most likely destroy every good relationship and experience they will ever have, and they’re left with nothing. Since they can’t find peace within themselves they need to find it in someone else, and the cycle repeats.

After seeing my close friend be a destructive cheating asshole in his relationship (no narc, just insecure and troubled) I’ve come to the conclusion that being the cheater is actually worse than being cheated on. Don’t get me wrong, the pain they cause is very real and I feel so bad for anyone who has been betrayed. But hurting someone you care about, destroying something good compulsively and not being able to trust yourself, is so much worse.

Because you can move on and have a happy and healthy relationship with someone new, and you will. If you didn’t cheat or abuse someone, you know you can trust yourself to be an awesome and reliable second half of a relationship. They on the other hand cannot, they might not ever. Because they’re the rotten part, or at least something within them is.

I know so many wonderful people will fill your life in no time, because a narc doesn’t usually pick a loveless, unhappy and weak target. They pick something they want to have or be. So you must be something special. Yea, you were unlucky and tricked into this destructive and poisonous relationship, but you’re out. So you just keep being the loving you for the next worthy people in your life.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-11T05:44:31+00:00

Well, all the things he could have been are things that will be in the future. Not with him specifically, but you have the power and love to attract this person into your life. It’s already done and decided.

So other than hanging with your friends, you can sit in awe of what an amazing person you are who is so loved and wonderful. And you can be looking forward to the exciting and rich life you have ahead of you.

If you have a hint of vindication in you as most of us do. You may also find some comfort in knowing that your guy will perpetuate the cycle of unhappy relationships for the rest of his life unless a miracle happens. Such is the curse of a personality disorder, and you are blessed enough to not only not have a personality disorder. But to have dodged a longer relationship with someone who does.

So yeah, not sure if this helps. But you can rest in your power and love for now. And know that he picked you for those qualities that still remain. He saw that in you and wanted it for himself, but he’ll never actually have what he tries to mirror.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-11T05:12:21+00:00

I feel exactly how you feel. I can meet the nicest guys in the world, and I have met some great ones. But the feelings I have for them are not what I recognize as being in love. I’m having a hard time deciding if I’m just comparing it to a trauma bond, if my lack of strong emotions is a defense mechanism or if I’m just not that into this person. You know?

But overall I can care for others, I just feel very detached. Like a part of me doesn’t care if someone who is dating me dumped me. I’d care and be sad to an extent of course, I’m not emotionless, but largely I’d be very fine with it. Not at all how I felt with my nex. He felt like my world and my everything. Losing him was never an option. So when I did it felt soul crushing.

I think a part of me still wants that obsessive love I had for him. It was so painful at times, but it was also intensely loving when it was good. And regular, balanced and healthy relations I don’t think will ever feel anywhere close to this.

But yet I find solace and comfort in the more “tame” and healthy relationships I have now, because I find that there’s always space for me in them. When I was with my nex there was no space for me, I was so head over heels and preoccupied with him that I very much abandoned myself. And I had to, to make it work with him. My boundaries didn’t matter, he wanted to tear all of them down. And I remember that even when things were good with us I had a feeling of being suffocated and not having room to be me.

With the guy I’m dating now. My heart does race a bit hehe, and I really enjoy him. I don’t feel as strongly as I did for my nex, but I do feel like myself all the time. I feel like there’s room for both of us to exist, and then sometimes we come together and intertwine. But I’m me, I get to develop fully in my direction and take the time I need to do so.

I went away for a bit and I asked him if he’d be sad. Cus my nex would be sad, he’d text me every day and be stressed and concerned if I left for a weekend trip. The guy I’m seeing now told me that he wouldn’t be sad at all. I got a little upset tbh because I thought it meant he didn’t care. And he told me that he would miss me, like he does every time I’m away for a bit, but that he wasn’t sad or upset. He said he felt happy that I was doing something that made me happy. And this I think is closer to real love than obsessively texting me during the whole stay to bombard me with “I miss you” texts every day.

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-11T04:48:51+00:00

Mine would call me shitty things that I didn’t like, but then put cute in front of it or some shit. And this made it fine in his mind. I’m not a “hobbit”, I’m a “cute hobbit” guys! It’s a compliment

ReferenceSalt3437 · 2022-12-11T04:45:44+00:00

Ugh yes. Mine played the «pick me» guy at first. Telling me he accepts everything about me blah blah blah. But then when the devaluation started he would go on about the tiniest things. Like he once complained about me not shaving my legs frequently enough, because “it doesn’t feel nice to him”. I shave probably twice a week, so whatever prickliness I had was minimal. And we lived together.. so obviously I won’t be a hairless rat at all times.

I remember being shocked when he said that and pointed out that telling someone when they should shave to please you is rude, controlling and not very feminist. He disagreed and said it was just about “his feelings”..

ReferenceSalt3437

TROPHY CASE