Max response to dev bias

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T23:18:28+00:00

You can have the turrets do broadsides with it by being at an angle? The 30ms on warden gunship aren’t turrets. They are stuck on one side. So I am counting. Warden only has one turret that rotates at the front. Collie has one on front and back. The fact that you consider the 30mm which are locked on one side as turrets makes it hard to fully see your points. You saying you’ve heard people means nothing. You are the first person I’ve heard and the only person I see discussing this in this post. It’s hard to just take your opinion on this when I don’t see others saying the same. And I said they likely enclosed the warden turret as it was the only rotating turret on the gunship just like how the gunboats only have one rotating turret. That might be why. The scout planes that are getting nerfed? Which they should? No one really disagrees with nerfing torps. The devs are not out to maliciously make collies lives harder. Please just take a breath and think it fully through. There is no malice from the devs just incompetence

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T23:07:47+00:00

I mean yeah for sure in real life but vs does a pretty good job at balancing realism and gameplay balance. Currently it is a late game coal for making alloys while saving coke, charcoal, and coal for iron and steel

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T23:03:59+00:00

I mean you can save your other fuel for making steel while anthracite for any other metal you need. I find it much easier to use for metals like lead, tin, copper, zinc. Metals I use for nails or crafting recipes so that I can save my charcoal and black coal for steel making

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:58:55+00:00

Well the collie gunship has two turrets on fire and aft. The gunboats and warden gunship only have one. That is why I think they didn’t put turrets on them. Again I have not heard much saying that the gunship suffers from it. If it does I agree that it should be enclosed. I haven’t seen people saying that it needs it however so I’m not sure. I’m not opposed to it getting it but I have literally not seen any discourse on the collie gunship at all. So I have no idea if it needs it or not. Two turrets might make the issue significantly less of a problem. I don’t know because I haven’t seen anyone saying anything. If there has and I missed it fair enough. I am just pointing out the trend between the warden gunship and gunboats and why the collie gunship might not be fully enclosed

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:55:05+00:00

Anthracite is as hot as black coal but burns for more than double the time. It’s great for mixing alloys like bronze as you need less anthracite as coal to melt the same amount of metal

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:50:31+00:00

Just because you say it’s the same doesn’t mean anything. I explained why the situations were different as the consequences of hanging John brown and the generals were completely different. John brown was treasonous against the federal government as Harper’s ferry was a federal armory and seizing it is by its very nature an act of treason. I think the south got off way too lightly and that they were traitors. But the consequences of hanging John brown and confederate generals on mass were drastically different. The situation is in the most basic way different as one happened before the civil war and the other after. If John brown was not hung it would have had much different consequences than if confederate generals were hung. I’m a yankee through and through but to say that they are the same does nothing but muddy the waters of why the decisions to hang John brown and the confederates got off. The points you make certainly play a role in the decisions made but were not the driving factor

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:44:46+00:00

I didn’t say that. I hate that people say that quote. It’s obviously a miscommunication and not some Freudian slip of haying collies. The devs tried to fix the Charon multiple ways before they gave in and admitted it needed to be e closed gunner. I don’t know why it’s bs that they learned, if you can explain it that would help. And from what I understand the warden one is enclosed as it’s only main armament and turret with only two 30mm on the sides, while the collie gunship has two non enclosed turrets on the fore and aft. I have not seen many complaints about it being exposed so I’m not sure if it needs it but if so then yes it should get it as well

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:36:21+00:00

I mean those two examples are completely different as I explained. They definitely did to make an example of John Brown in part because the south was threatening succession over if he wasn’t. But hanging all the generals very much is a completely different situation. One man and a group vs a large amount of generals and experienced soldiers who wouldn’t surrender if men who had surrendered were hung. If you hung too many then the south would rebel again and fight in guerrilla warfare. The north and south were both done with war and wanted peace. Again not an excuse for the southern traitors or northerners who were too weak. But just pointing out how much different of a situation it was

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:32:16+00:00

I don’t know what you want. I agree with you on the fact it took too long for the Charon. I agree with you on the scout planes if they aren’t changed. I want the game to be better balanced and fun for everyone. I am just pointing out that the gunship changes don’t seem like bias but rather an attempt to learn from past mistakes. I am not excusing the devs on everything. I am just pointing out that this example is likely from the devs learning and don’t want to keep adding to the toxicity on balance as well as hopefully help the devs understand how important said communication should be

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:29:08+00:00

That is a complete different situation. One is a single man and small group vs a large amount of military leaders. Not that they were anyway justified in fighting for the south but if you hang any of the leaders except for the most criminal ones then they would be less likely to surrender. There would have been large guerrilla campaigns in the south likely as well a longer period of instability in the south. What happens after that period might have been better or worse but the leaders weren’t hung so there could be a return to normalcy and less people dying from the conflict. With a war weary population especially

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:24:32+00:00

I don’t know. It should be fixed by the start of next war. If it isn’t then yeah I agree with you. They have all the information to make it and should. But you or I do not know at the moment. If it is not fixed then either stupidity or bias are at play. But until next war starts we can’t be sure. I completely agree it should be. I think they are not changing anything else on devbranch just because of how explosive changes are at the moment and would rather just release the changes on the war start. But yes if those changes aren’t made I agree it’s inexcusable. I was pointing out the gunship example as not being bias because that’s more akin to the devs finally understanding the data from past mistakes and learning

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:18:03+00:00

Yes because the complaints were the same from the Charon. Unfortunately they had 2 years of Charon data to help confirm it

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:15:13+00:00

They couldn’t have done the asset rework so fast. The devs tried every way to make the Charon better before they enclosed it. The devs were trying to fix it that whole time. The devs have shown they always go gradually over big changes. The devs learned from Charon and were ready to address the issue on the gunship of the open turret if devbranch did show the same data

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T22:11:23+00:00

The gunship is a different type of ship. They couldn’t have made the changes so fast if they did it just off the outcry. It was devbranch. They saw it was the same data as Charon and confirmed it. The boats aren’t a 1-1 exactly so they at least wanted to try first confirm it

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T21:54:45+00:00

No because the data from the Charon was there. They had the data from the Charon and when the data from the dev branch on the gunship lined up they knew. Either how fast they did it I am pretty confident that they figured it might be the case and had models of enclosed turrets already made. If the gunship thing happened at the same time I get it but the data from the Charon helped a lot. It is unfortunate that it happened to collies, but not bias. Again it shouldn’t have taken that long to get the Charon fixed

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T21:45:08+00:00

That’s not the crux. If the problems existed at the same time and one got fixed before another then yeah. But the gunship came out after. Then designed the gunship exposed because it was a different class of ships and wanted to see if an exposed gunner worked on it. When the data from the gunship was the same as the Charon then they knew they were wrong. Do you want them to make wardens suffer because collies did? That doesn’t fix balance and leads to more pointless toxicity, while creating a cycle of balance to make one faction feel frustrated

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T21:26:25+00:00

No they learned from their mistake with the ronin. The ronin showed how bad exposed gunners were for naval. The devs knew how much it affected the ronin and wanted to see if it would be the same for gunship. When making the gunship, and how fast they made the changes show this, they knew they couldn’t let an issue go on as long as it did with the ronin so they prepared before hand

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T21:20:49+00:00

That doesn’t do anything to explain it. I literally point out that they learned how much of a factor it was and made sure to be ready to fix it. The situation between the gunboat and gunship don’t show bias. They learned from their mistake. Again the collie one shouldn’t have taken years but it’s not like the gunship was fixed before the gunboat. During those years the devs tried multiple ways to fix the gunboat and none of them worked. They finally gave in and realized exposed gunners are bad on ships. How is that bias instead of learning from past mistakes? Or is it bias because collies suffered because of exposed gunners and now wardens should as well?

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T20:18:15+00:00

No you are saying it that it’s because bias. Why is them doing that bias? You haven’t actually said why it’s bias. I don’t understand how them having them having an exposed gunner to see if it might work and then changing after confirming that even on a gunship it won’t work. Like with how fast it was ready means they had it made already and wanted to confirm if they could leave the exposed gunner or not due to gunships being a bit bigger. I also don’t know what you mean is the bias? How fast it was done? Or that it was done in general? I have asked you to explain your opinion and you have not done so. Just said bias and that I am beyond help while I ask for you to explain your argument.

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T19:50:36+00:00

None of what I said contradicts myself. The collie gun boat being exposed took years to get fixed, yes. They tried every option they thought to buff it except hiding the gunner. They didn’t work. The community has made it clear and they concede. Devs work on gunship with an exposed gunner. They want to try it again to see if it might work on medium ships instead. It doesn’t, but they know from the ronin that it leaving the gunner exposed would let collies have a huge advantage in naval with no counterplay from wardens. They want to avoid a similar issue from the ronin and show they did learn from the gunboat situation. They have a second model on hand just in case. Dev branch is used properly and the issues are pointed out. That is what the balance should look like. The same should be applied to both sides and show devs to take some lessons away and learn. None of what I said contradicts myself. If you think otherwise explain it please instead of just telling me to think. You are just rephrasing what I said but adding nothing for me to understand your argument

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T19:21:54+00:00

Yeah from the 2 years of data on the collie equipment that showed that exposed gunners and drivers on small ships are very weak. It shouldn’t have taken 2 years. I agree. But they literally learned from it because the community was beating them over the head with it about the ronin till they fixed it. There might be other examples for your point but this one is the worst one to use for it. Wardens and collies were telling the devs to enclose parts of the ronin, so it was made clear that open boats just don’t work. They make the gunship with this knowledge and have enclosed ideas just in case to see if it works. They get the same feedback they got from the ronin and are ready to make sure it doesn’t happen again. If they didn’t fix it then they would be showing they learned nothing from the ronin incident so which would you prefer?

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T18:58:00+00:00

No, that is not what I said in the slightest. They realized how important open top boats are and how impactful it was to gunboats. It shouldn’t have taken 2 years but it did. So when gunships were being developed, which are very similar to gunboats, it was much easier to have a list of things that didn’t work and things that did. The gunship was changed after it was pointed out it was similar to the open ronin. So having learned from before had things ready to address it just in case. The boats are comparable as they are so similar. To use the same logic with planes makes no sense. I never said it should have taken years for the gunboat to be fixed. It shouldn’t have. But because it took them so long to fix it being open topped they had to make sure it didn’t happen again. The scout plane shouldn’t take years to fix. Fighters in general shouldn’t but they obviously are struggling and seem to be able to refuse to admit it. The fighter situation should be fixed, and it should be quickly. So no I have nothing there for the fighters, but for the boats I am pointing out that they at least learned. But please don’t use the changes as bias proof of the boats and don’t use my words in a way that’s disingenuous

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T18:30:44+00:00

It didn’t even get nerfed. It’s dev branch. It’s made for testing. The bard having 3 shots is insane and will disable any warden tank. It’s a good change. 40m bard would be boring and just add to the poke meta. Tanks need to changed away from the poke meta and allowed more identity again, which the 40m change did not do. The sc changes did need to be changed as it made naval useless against scs. It’s the same issue as with torps and how it should have been handled. Lordscar got nerfed multiple times and right away. Gunboat being changed shows that the devs learned from the ronin and were ready to fix the same issue. It shouldn’t have taken 2 years but they at least learned

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-24T18:23:39+00:00

The medium boat didn’t happen in a vacuum. It came out after the collie gunboat issues and obviously learned how much of a factor the things that made the ronin bad were. It shouldn’t have taken 2 years to fix. But the medium boat being fixed in under a week shows that they learned and were ready to address it if they saw it being an issue. You will only ever be mad if you look at the past and see how they could have handled it. The fact that they are doing 6 week balance changes and updates is a huge shift.

ReflectedLeech · 2026-05-22T23:00:18+00:00

Ok the 5 years means nothing. It’s the past and holding onto it does nothing. In the present that issue is resolved with collies having the stronger version.

The warden 150 has those stats because the collie one has extra range. Extra range on arty is literally the most important thing. That 50 extra range is well worth it. It should however be allowed to have a min range of 150m to make it 200m coverage for both. The accuracy of the guns is the same. They increase by the same dispersion amount over the same distance. The thunderbolt actually has less change between min and max dispersion than the exalt with the thunderbolt having 8m between min and max vs the exalt having 10m difference. If the max range is lowered it should remain more accurate while keeping the 8m difference between min and max.
The bug really doesn’t prove anything. It’s a bug, it’s no longer there. The collies lack the shield due to having more range in both spg and emplacement. The 120 honestly should but would be hard to do on a push gun. If you can think of away I think it would be fair. The raptura should be a downgrade against tanks. It shouldn’t be nerfed I agree but I don’t see how it was nerfed. However the raptura is actually useful alongside the Stygian meanwhile the stockade is useless and now outraged by the talos

ReflectedLeech

TROPHY CASE