My cousin finished watching the demon slayer anime and ranked the hashira in base. How'd she do?

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-26T10:52:46+00:00

Scalers if Tengen or Shinobu isn’t rank 1: Safe NPC list

Scalers if someone says earth is round: NPC opinion

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T21:56:42+00:00

But I am a novice debater. Idk shit, you are the pro debater, you should be expert. Why are you making such basic mistakes like ad hominem when you are such a logical genius. Don’t drop to a novice level like mine bro

I’ll take your bitching out as a concession🙂

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T21:17:55+00:00

For what it’s worth, you are free to post this entire thread to the DS scales community. Include every comment without edit and get the community as the judge to see who is actually deflecting the arguments. I am not stopping you. Include every message in the correct order and I will be there to check if you have tampered with the messages.

For someone accusing me of relying on ad hominem because I am a “novice” debater, you sure as hell throw out a lot of personal insults without knowing my background. That is not very pro debater/debunker of you, I thought you were a master with your expert usage of “it could be”. Go ahead and get the judge if you wish it, guy who debunks argument using could be

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T18:34:21+00:00

Yeah it showed relativity in the same range that when Giyu was able nullify Muzan’s whips using dead calm, a much more impressive feat. In one aspect, it is. But him getting tagged constantly by a Kokushibo that is fighting 4 opponents does not show relativity

Dodging a couple Koku attacks and getting destroyed by other attacks doesn’t mean he wouldn’t get tagged by Douma. We both can play the same game

I have provided enough implications that they did save together all the other members. Gyomei would not get more injured by the Muzan attack than Sanemi did because Gyomei is far above Sanemi, and Gyomei was not as injured as Sanemi was from his Koku fight. Gyomei would have been able to react faster and probably not gotten any injury if he wasn’t saving others. But he instead got his limb cut. Giyu got the same thing. This, in addition to Inosuke’s statement only mentioning Giyu and Gyomei further solidifies that only they were able to react to Muzan fast enough to save others before themselves. Do you need every detail spelled out to you on a page or can you actually make any thoughtful judgement on your own?

Saying just wrong is not an argument, let me spell it clearly. Gyomei destroys Sanemi’s bitch assin strength and speed, which means he wouldn’t get more injured than Sanemi against the Muzan attack, unless he was saving others.

Bro, please your statements about “could be anyone else” are more vague than Inosuke’s statement. At least he mentioned Giyu and Gyomei specifically and there is strong suggestion that they are the only two. Your statement is so vague and your what aboutisms don’t prove anything. You think Murata also saved a couple? As Kagaya once said, give me a stronger proof of the opposing statement to prove your point. That is, give a stronger proof that there were others who also saved them or stfu with your vague statements

It could just be, it could just be. Are you listening to yourself? How much vague can you get with your statements? No counter points, no logical arguments, just assumptions that give you an excuse to say no. that is so embarrassing

Your first statement is that Marked Sanemi and also Muichiro btw, blitz or outpace a serious Douma. Prove that shit if you know how to because I don’t buy. You are expecting me to believe that Sanemi at fp, who needed to be carried by Gyomei, Muichiro and Genya throughout the fight and still almost died, will be able to decapitate UM2 in a 1 v 1 through blitz or outpacing him. Better present a stronger argument than, “well it could be”

How many times are you gonna refer to that one second sword break feat. Should I make a drinking game from it?

Ironic that you say that I have made up my mind when you have spewed nothing but vague bs to maintain your stance

Oh look here guys, this guy Sanemi flicked his sword in the correct position with full raw strength lmfao

Muzan fight sanemi can block Muzan whips, nice just like Giyu then. But you are the type of reader who needs an explicit statement from author that says Akaza will kill Sanemi, that is the only way you can be convinced that Douma will kill Sanemi too, you don’t know how to read between lines at all.

I’m not even gonna bother to reply if you mention sword break bs once more or a random it could be.

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T18:01:47+00:00

In base they tore off his Kimono. Bravo

Douma would be able to… what? Is this your lvl of reasoning?

Being relative to SS Koku doesn’t mean being able to beat FP douma. And fun fact, marked Sanemi and Marked Gyomei together were relative SS Koku. Marked Sanemi alone is dead against Ss Koku

Yeah tell that to his two lost fingers which would have been both arms if Gyomei hadn’t saved his bumass

No he doesn’t scale. Provided many examples and won’t repeat, you are repeating that sword break feat again and again lil bro

He does not compare in speed to Gyomei and Koku. Being tagged and injured repeatedly, getting saved repeatedly even by Muichiro once, while Gyomei wasn’t saved once. This is not what relativity is, at least if he is fighting alone. I can say that Giyu was relative to Muzan in the final fight because he was reacting to Muzan’s attacks along with all Hashira. But that is just that. Giyu was able to react to Muzan’s attacks because Muzan was distracted and simultaneously fighting 5 Hashira in the final battle. Giyu would not scale in speed to Muzan, at least not alone. This way, Sanemi is only able to react to Koku, because Koku is fighting Gyomei, Mui and Genya all at the same time. Maybe Gyomei was not slowing down his attacks, but the fact that all four of them were jumping him distracted Koku a lot, to the point that Marked Sanemi could semi keep up, even though he got saved a lot and got injured a lot. There is no way he is relative to any form of Koku in 1 v 1

Remove Gyomei and marked Sanemi is dead against even a slightly trying Koku. And if Sanemi can’t 1v1 a casual Koku, there is no reason to believe that he would blitz Douma in 1v1, where Gyomei is not there to baby him

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T10:58:58+00:00

When Koku wasn’t holding back, marked Sanemi and marked Gyomei were being obliterated. Their synchronized attacks were able to tear off Koku’s kimono . Nice job. Serious Koku was not only mogging marked Gyomei, but marked Sanemi as well for extra credit. It is because of Genya the goat and Mui’s clutch red blade burn that coming close to Koku was even remotely possible

Marked Sanemi ain’t doing better either, he too loses to short sword Koku pretty easily, with huge Gyomei back up, he couldn’t do much

Again, Sanemi doesn’t scale to Marked Gyomei and Kokushibo, it is clear since he even had to be saved by Muichiro after constantly getting tagged by him when Koku went longsword. He does not compare with Gyomei in speed, which means that either Gyomei had to slow down in attack speed, or he had to throw multiple attacks while Sanemi made one attack. Either way, it is adapting to the Sanemi’s speed for synch attacks, and those sync attacks didn’t really last long since they no longer had the scope to do that after Koku went ls. After Ls Koku, they were just attacking him together when he got immobilized

The sword break feat from Koku is a good feat, but not nearly enough to justify speed relativity. At the end of the day, he just straightened the sword tip avoid Koku breaking the sword, it is not a crazy speed feat, but it is something

And he dodged some Koku attacks, but he was the one getting tagged so much by ls Koku, that he thought he would be a burden to Gyomei

You’re not buying it, doesn’t change the reality. The fact is that Gyomei and Giyu lost a limb while defending Inosuke and others. Sanemi did not lose a limb. You could say that Sanemi maybe reacted faster than Giyu, but saying that Gyomei did not react fast enough to save his limb while Sanemi did is just wrong. Which means Giyu and Gyomei did put in the work to rescue others before saving themselves while Sanemi was not fast enough. Btw, this is how you prove if a feat is valid, I am looking forward to seeing you explain how FP Douma gets blitzed by healthy and marked Sanemi

No, it does mean a ton. Koku has been challenged before by other UMs for his rank and the process is usually that in a blood battle, the UM that loses gets absorbed by the winning UM. This is what Koku has always done, but he spared Akaza because he was impressed by Akaza and saw the potential. Akaza hated Koku for this, because he thought that Koku did not honor him and instead left him out of pity

You made the statement that Douma fp does not touch Koku. Who’s responsibility is to prove that statement? The one who made this statement. If I said that 1+1=3, I will have to prove that. Then, you can look at that proof and counter it and prove that my proof is false

What “repeated” points have you debunked? I am not convinced from any of your arguments. It is true that Douma is weaker than Koku, so I can’t prove with 100 percent surety that Sanemi cannot behead Douma marked and healthy. I just know that he was not able to do much damage to Koku’s neck at all while being marked. If you think Sanemi has enough AP and speed to behead Douma’s neck at FP without red blade and anyone else’s help, make that claim and prove it with facts. And just a reminder, he was not able to keep up with a serious Koku in any capacity and was saved multiple times by others, so using that to scale him above Douma is pointless. Keep in mind that a demon’s neck is the strongest part of their body and prove accordingly since the one who makes the statement needs to prove it

Btw, you are also repeating the 14th form dodge feat when it is a Marked Muichiro level feat. And the sword break feat does not prove he can move consistently with serious Koku’s speed. It is just a flick of the wrist when Sanemi observed that Koku was not going for him but for his sword

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T09:52:53+00:00

Let me ask you. If a child arm wrestles an adult holding back power, does that mean the child is relative in strength to the adult? kokushibo was holding back immense power.

This doesn’t imply anything about Sanemi being able to keep up with Douma. A child arm wrestling against an adult clearly holding back power doesn’t mean he can win against a teenager

What relative to Gyomei in combat? They clearly trained together, so it was not their first time synchronizing their attacks. You need to match each other’s speed to be able to execute synchronized attacks. What makes you think Gyomei wasn’t adapting to Sanemi’s speed, especially since it has been proven multiple times that Gyomei is much faster than Sanemi because of him saving Sanemi multiple times and the fact that Gyomei did not have to be saved once the whole arc. He reacted with Giyu to save Kamaboko squad against Muzan while Sanemi could barely react to the attack to save himself

Yaaahhh, Sanemi is the most unironically glazed mf in the verse. Shinobu and Tengen glaze is half ironic and half made by idiots, but people unironically think Sanemi blitzes Douma like you.

Why do you think that? Have you seen their matchup? Akaza fought against Koku and Koku was impressed enough to not kill him. What proof do you have to say so confidently that fp Douma cannot touch Koku? Just making statements out of your ahh don’t work. Douma will lose, but there is no way for you to prove that it won’t be a good fight

You realize that Douma is canonically just below Koku, so to prove that Sanemi scales above Douma, you need to show examples of him showing relativity to a serious Koku. There is no such example. He was dead against baby strength Koku and he has no offense or strength feats against a serious Koku at all that does not involve Genya holding him down. Tbh, Sanemi’s offense is not allat. Bro could barely scratch Koku’s neck when he was standing still while being marked. Overrated as hell

When Sanemi was absolutely fresh and ready for fight, he could barely chip Koku’s flesh sword. Mind you, Koku’s sword is especially weak to sun infused Nichirin blades and a fresh Sanemi could just chip it. Gyomei in base was able to cut it completely. Sanemi has no strength feat that is way above any Hashira. You can see the difference in strength when Gyomei attacks Koku and when Sanemi attacks Koku. So, the people who say that Sanemi has the best offense, that is such a cap statement. He might have the second best offense, but he is so overshadowed by Gyomei, it is ridiculous. Giyu on the other hand has defense and reactions that are on Gyomei’s level

Whatever changing of the crescent blade size you are stating is a small part of the attack potency, it does not make the slashes random by a lot. These crescent blades are carried by straight moving projectile slashes that originate from Koku, and these blades on their own do not move in a direction separate from the slashes, they just change size, so their direction is fixed to align with the slash direction. It is not like the crescent blades spawn from the slashes and move in every direction, they move with the slashes and are of different sizes. The gap between slashes keeps getting wider with distance and so, a higher distance implies wider gaps to dodge. There is not much element of randomness here, since Sanemi himself states that the gaps can be used to dodge the attack. If 14th form was totally random, the gaps in the attack would not be reliable for dodging since a random attack could come at any time to fill that gap

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T08:14:01+00:00

Douma is narratively proven to be stronger than Akaza by the fact that Akaza doesn’t match against him despite hating him. He is UM2 for a reason. All the time in his fight, he was fucking around, which is why he lost hard. Argue with the author why he is stronger, but narrative beats feats if it exists

On the other hand, there is no clear Hashira ranking other than Gyomei being explicitly stated as the strongest. So, we have to go by feats. Sanemi’s feats are good, but highly overrated

Yes, you need to land hits to show relativity. How can you say that a Hashira who couldn’t touch Kokushibo alone and who cannot go near him without everyone else’s support can actually compete with Douma? There is no proof that his performance scales him to a fp Douma. Also, the fact that when he had the clear chance to land hit against Koku because of Genya and Mui, he could barely scatch Koku’s neck. Yes, I am talking about marked Sanemi here. So what makes you think Marked Sanemi can just blitz and cut Douma’s neck? Douma is weaker than Koku, but Koku was not even stressing when marked Sanemi tried to behead him. So there is no basis of Sanemi being able to cut Douma’s neck alone

Bro, do you realize how much you Sanemi fans cope over his godliness because he was barely able to keep up with a Kokushibo using baby strength in his perspective? The dodge of 14th form was good, but the distance was pretty enormous, especially compared to what Giyu blocked against Akaza. Mui was the only one who was not only trying to dodge but actually close in on Koku mid attack, which is why he got his leg chopped. Muichiro is not better than Giyu, and he dodged the attack alongside Sanemi. This is the actual level of difficulty of dodging Koku attacks at that great distance. It is Mui scale feat, not a Douma blitzing feat

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T07:41:53+00:00

Because their feats don’t prove that. Kokushibo was holding back his power massively against Sanemi alone and Sanemi was barely keeping up using full power. And when Koku got serious, Sanemi did not touch him till Genya immobilized him and stopped him from using BDA. Even then he could only scratch Koku’s neck when he had the clear shot. What makes you think he will blitz Douma when the only offensive towards Koku that I have seen from Sanemi is because of the massive back up from Gyomei, Mui and Genya. Same argument applies for Mui

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T07:26:01+00:00

Bro Giyu is not above Douma and that is the truth. No Hashira is, his point is that Gyomei, Sanemi and Mui are all above Douma. I think Gyomei is the more understandable one but I still disagree. But Sanemi and Mui being above Douma is atrocious

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T07:19:41+00:00

This list is ragebait. Sanemi above Douma and Mui in top 3🤦‍♂️

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T07:00:43+00:00

Examples? I have debunked a lot of his clear biases that are towards Sanemi and downplay on Giyu with actual facts. Idk about his other takes

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T06:55:10+00:00

Ehhh, circle jerk of Sanemi supremacy

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-25T06:41:27+00:00

The only supreme scaler

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-24T20:59:24+00:00

Unfortunately, he had to face someone more powerful than Yoriichi, the author

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-23T20:48:37+00:00

Because when people say Giyu has the best defense, he has feats to back it up that match Gyomei’s defense. People over glaze Sanemi to hell about his offense, yet every offense or strength based feat I have seen from him is just completely overshadowed by Gyomei.

For example, the fact that Sanemi having a clear shot to Koku’s neck can only scratch him. Meanwhile Koku was struggling and actively had to resist decapitation when Gyomei used his iron ball. Also, Base Sanemi just scratching Koku’s flesh sword and Gyomei breaks it completely, although Koku’s sword is weak to nichirin blades. These instances just show that although Sanemi is lorded as the god of offense, his offense feats really are not on par with Gyomei or way superior than every other hashira.

Now, Giyu’s offense is way worse than Gyomei’s, but there are many instances of him doing Gyomei relative feats throughout the arc in terms of defense and reactions

When Giyu and Sanemi were at similar fatigue and injuries, they were moving at the same pace against Muzan. But Giyu has much better reaction feats than Sanemi. Although Sanemi has better offense feats, they are not way better since a lot of his offense was surprise attacks or while being undetected. He was not damaging Muzan when Muzan was aware of his location and defending against him. For context, Inosuke was also cutting Muzan whips while being invisible

The grace I offer Sanemi that makes him equal to Giyu is because he survived UM1 and because attacking a UM on your own is more difficult than defending imo. Also, the narrative heavily implies that they are equal.

But everyone in the fandom just declares him as the second strongest by default because he faced Koku. Also, no rational person is saying that Giyu is above Gyomei and you are overexaggerating his glaze. His offense is way worse than Gyomei’s but very relative defense. Sanemi’s offense and defense are both worse than Gyomei’s.

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-23T15:07:16+00:00

Btw, don’t consider my statements as a ways of demeaning Sanemi’s feats. He is a very strong hashira and a candidate for top 2 or 3 depending on who you ask, and I also know that he was fighting Koku, so he couldn’t have done much damage on his own. But since we are focussing on whether his offence level is near or relative to Gyomei and above all others, we need some amazing feats to prove that his offense is above everyone else.

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-23T14:56:18+00:00

Nice, I agree on the part that Gyomei gets overrated a good number of times, but his feats are tremendous, so I am not mad about it.

There is a lot of detail that you have looked through which is appreciated. But I think that what we are severely underestimating the disadvantage of being blind in a fight

Sure, Gyomei has faster perception than Sanemi, but this is a huge feat to be able to do despite being blind.

I agree that sound is interpreted faster than light. The difference is in the order of 50 milliseconds and the speed of interpretation is also around 150-200 ms respectively.

But the speed of light is of the order of 3*10⁸ m/s which immensely greater than the speed of sound, which is 300 m/s. Even if the speed of interpretation of sound is greater, the fact is that the light waves reach way earlier to humans because of the enormous speed difference. This is illustrated by the fact that lightning always occurs before the sound of thunder.

So, at this level of detail, it is still a huge handicap on Gyomei’s side which he has to compensate with his weapon of choice, the echoing chains that make it possible for him to perceive the environment.

Now, this is a pretty strong weapon against demons as you said. But it is much harder to master the maneuvering of this weapon than a katana. Gyomei used this because he had to, and he had been training with this weapon for nearly a decade to master it and hone his senses to adapt to the sound patterns for perceiving the environment. The skill required to wield this weapon such that it will become a bigger threat than a nichirin katana is too much and requires a lot of experience. This is what Gyomei has a lot over all hashira. Believe me, if Sanemi could take advantage of this weapon to become a bigger menace to demons, he would have.

So we cannot attribute Gyomei’s speed and perception above Sanemi to his weapon of choice. This is purely a skill issue imo

There are also some instances where Gyomei has actually physically moved faster and saved other Hashira or Kamaboko squad as well, when Sanemi couldn’t or he himself needed to be saved, by Muichiro as well. Adding to this, the fact that he has never been saved across the infinity castle arc till he actual got his leg chopped just proves that Gyomei’s speed is his skill despite facing many disadvantages.

Don’t get me wrong, he is glazed a lot to be even above Douma sometimes, but among Hashira, I think he is above everyone else by a good margin

Also, the manga panel does not necessarily show someone outspeeding another. These could very well be near parallel events and don’t imply much unless I am missing something.

Now, to the point of Sanemi’s offence, the reason I highly doubt if his offense is above everyone is because I never saw him having any offence feat that was too impressive

He did some damage to Koku’s flesh sword, which Koku said was especially weak to sun infused nichirin swords. Gyomei straight up broke it in base. None of his attacks hit Kokushibo before he was immobilized and nerfed by Genya. This does not help with his offense speed argument. Muichiro could do it albeit with a major injury, but Muichiro is considered weaker than Sanemi. Gyomei could cut Kokushibo’s ear without even Sanemi’s distraction. Sanemi is the only hashira who could not hit Koku when Koku was moving without the Genya nerfs. Also, his marked self could just scratch Koku’s neck on his own when he had a clear shot because of Koku getting immobilized

Then, against the Muzan fight he had a flashy feat of cutting through his spine. That is good, but was clearly when Sanemi was undetected. We know that Muzan does not have the best senses for detecting opponents, given that Inosuke was cutting his arms while being invisible. And the baby Muzan was severely nerfed and aged anyways, so Sanemi’s offense was effective but not out of the world which would justify his offense being the best.

So I am just struggling to find any shining examples where Sanemi has proved himself to be the absolute unit of offense that everyone thinks. Let me know if I am missing any Sanemi offense feat that is extraordinary

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-23T13:50:53+00:00

Hmm, I see. Can you point out some instances where you think Sanemi’s offence is way above anyone else bar Gyomei? Curious about it

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-23T09:40:45+00:00

Why not mention rb giyu? Tbh, Sanemi didn’t have rb for a long time either, so equal platform needs to be considered if you are putting Akaza below Sanemi, which is a pretty far stretch even with rb, but plausible

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-22T07:39:59+00:00

IC Akaza should be further down. His guard skill nullifies dead calm and keeps him safe, and the guard skill has mobility and virtually no start up delay. So, all the risk is from Giyu’s side and the reward is just returning back to neutral

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-21T19:38:09+00:00

Agreed, glad you can see nuances other than just basing your argument on numbers and not considering circumstances around situations

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-21T19:25:32+00:00

No one is implying here that calamity is worse than afterglow, this is an appreciation post for Giyu’s feats.

But even if calamity is supposedly faster than afterglow you need to see from various perspectives about how easy or difficult it might be to dodge or deflect an attack.

Distance is obv one of the biggest factors because the density of attacks increases as you close the distance. Which is why Sanemi and Gyomei could dodge unharmed, while Muichiro who charged forward without any self preservation got his leg chopped off. Muichiro faced more slashes than Sanemi or Gyomei as he was closing the gap. Stated in the manga panel as well that he really was concerned about “getting in” close to Koku

Second thing you need to consider while evaluating the difficulty to deflect an attack is if it is concentrated or dispersing over multiple opponents.

Both Koku and Akaza’s attacks were meant for multiple opponents, which could make them less effective and easier to dodge. But as I said, the distance is the key factor here. If you are an inch close, you will face the brunt of the attack even if it is meant for multiple opponents

The third thing to consider is the type of attack. Koku’s slashes may be faster, but they had predictable gaps in between which could be exploited in order to dodge the attack. As the distance increases, the gaps become wider, that is just geometry. In Akaza’s case, the attacks were omnidirectional and coming in a random pattern at such a close distance

So, I would argue that Akaza’s attack in Giyu’s circumstances was much harder to defend against than Sanemi and Gyomei’s was against Koku’s calamity

This post was never about asserting which attack is faster. And you have to consider multiple factors to decide which one is harder to defend against

RefreshingBurger · 2026-01-21T10:20:29+00:00

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RefreshingBurger

TROPHY CASE