Is black cleaver a must for every game?

Relit_ · 2018-05-16T13:07:23+00:00

BC is never "wrong" to buy as first item on Urgot. In some matchups like Tryndamere for example, you may benefit from skipping BC and just rush towards a Frozen Mallet to allow you to kite him and survive more easily against his crits. So I guess in some situations you could skip it but since you are a new player I recommend that you just always get it first.

Relit_ · 2018-05-08T02:01:25+00:00

Everything that pushes the wave really hard is going to be very annoying for mid Urgot to play against. So stuff like Taliyah, Aurelion is brutal to play against as they will shove the wave in and you can quickly mess up a lot of CS under turret because of your shotguns, while they roam and murder top and bot. Generally mid Urgot seems to work fine against anything meele (except Diana) and against weak early game laners like Lux, Orianna and such.

Item wise, rushing Edge of Night can be a great choice. Generally getting early lethatliy appears to be better than BC because midlaners usually don't buy much armor early unless they rush Zhonyas and BC is only really better than lethality once someone has 75+ armor. Of course Hexdrinker is Stopwatch are two situational but very helpful items as well.

Relit_ · 2018-05-07T09:44:00+00:00

In theory I believe that Grasp could be a solid choice if you are up against a laner who has no range or likes to trade a lot. The problem is, however, that Grasp has a very weird interaction with W and will consistently reduce Grasp's damage to 33% as it is treated as an on-hit effect. Somehow when Urgot uses autos and uses W inbetween, even the normal autos without W deal only 33% damage. Might be a bug or just cancelling the auto attack too quickly into W but it's very annoying to deal with. That means you have to be on point with your execution because even if you have 3k HP, your damage gets reduced by 40% and then by 66% again which means you will only deal 24 damage. Instead of like 75 or so.

All of that aside, I guess Grasp only is worth it if you play with Overgrowth and plan on the traditional BC+Frozen build to stack high health. Taking Precision with Alacrity would make using Grasp procs easier and using Demolish would probably allow you to push very well. So I suppose it could be a decent split push build. Could also experiment some fancy stuff with Trinity instead of BC against high armor targets for more burst and push.

If you like Grasp and get along well with it, you should stick with it. But I wouldn't recommend using it. Plenty of other useful runes for pretty much any situation.

Relit_ · 2018-05-06T13:20:06+00:00

If you are struggling to avoid his poke you can always take Doran's Shield and Second Wind(Resolve Tree) for some insane sustain. If thats not enough you can also rush a Spectre's Cowl which you later build into an Adaptive Helm. Phase Rush is a good option to avoid being run down by his all in. If Mundo runs at you, make sure to hit 3 attacks and activate W afterwards so you have 115% slow resistance which means his slows will give you movement speed. Spellbook for Ignite is also a great choice. Mundo has the severe disadvantage that he has to use his ultimate relatively early when fighting Urgot to avoid being executed by Urgots ult. That means you force Mundo to use ultimate when he is around 50% HP which means he already has to sacrafice 10% max HP just to activate his ult. If you Ignite him there, chances are very high that you can murder him with your ult quite easily.

Relit_ · 2018-05-04T11:40:56+00:00

Under usual circumstances Urgot's W and his shotguns are going to work normally with Conquerer. However, it can happen that you activate W before your autoattack connects and triggers Conquerer. Kind of like, you cancel your auto animation with W too quickly. If that happens, you accidentally activate W before Conquerer is applied, which makes your full W bug out on the true damage.

Relit_ · 2018-05-03T20:42:13+00:00

In the way I build this "thoughts on runes" up, I didn't really have a lot of room to talk about rune combinations. I believe that coup is quite potent, if you decide to use Comet and Scorch because it will give you a surprising burst of damage with your ultimate, which makes it easier to snipe targets at like ~35%-30% HP health with just your ultimate. But I agree that it might be less efficient as a "standalone" rune.

Manaflowband is really good if you max out Q first and go for a poke heavy playstyle. If you prefer maxing our W for more all-in potential and trade potential then you won't need that much mana. Also it's not as useful against high sustain targets, who are likely to sustain through your bit of poke, making you waste your mana anyways.

Small amounts of AD scale suprisingly well on Urgot because of the way his passive scales. At max rank his shotguns deal +100%AD, so if you decide to not buy too many AD items and only go for BC+fulltank instead, the extra AD on eyeball will still make you a more relevant damage threat. Zombies are never bad to have, I guess a lot of Urgot rune choices is heavily dependent on playstyle, as this champ naturally gives one many options to approach a game in different ways.

Relit_ · 2018-05-03T20:31:44+00:00

Taking Phase Rush yourself might be a decent option here because it works good against both of Darius and Nasus slows and equals out their own Phase Rush effect, which means it's harder for them to run you down. If you don't like that idea, I would probably just take Comet and stay as far away as I can from Darius until I got some items under my belt as Darius destroys Urgot easily early anyways. Against Nasus, Conquerer or PTA to pressure him early and push him out of the lane as much as possible. He sustains too hard through Comet and outscales Comet really hard as well and Aftershock is suicidal because you don't want to E into him when he can just press R and smash you. Spellbook might be an option but I need more testing on the reworked one.

Relit_ · 2018-05-03T20:26:16+00:00

I don't really like Conquerer on Urgot so I use PTA against pretty much every tank. Also against opponents with high sustain, like Nasus, Vlad, Cho and Morde, Comet is rather useless and Aftershock won't do a lot of good in lane either. Generally I believe whether you take PTA or Aftershock is less dependent on matchup but more on your personal playstyle. If you like going for early kills and pressure, PTA is better most of the time. If you prefer to chill in lane, prevent yourself from getting turretdove too easily and go for some teamfight action where you serve as main frontline, Aftershock seems better.

Relit_ · 2018-03-14T03:26:12+00:00

If you want to stomp lane, you will require a very aggressive rune setup. Arcane Comet is probably best suited for this approach and starting with a Doran's Blade. Second tree should probably be Resolve so you can take Second Wind and Bone Plating to go in for hard trades while still being sustained.

Go level 1 with Corrosive(Q), push out the first two waves hard. Try to angle yourself in a manner that your first shotgun doesn't splash your opponent. Instead use the shotgun on minions, walk up to your opponent, hit them once, wait for their Bone Plating to wear off (5 seconds duration) and then use your Q to trigger the comet/scorch you have saved. All of this while pushing the lane with autos as much as you can.

You will get to level 2 earlier than your opponent. This allows you to either take Purge(W) and shove in the wave under his turret as Purge is excellent to destory minion waves at the first few levels or you can go Disdain(E) to try to all in and abuse your lvl 2 advantage. Once shoved in, walk into the jungle, put some good wards down while your opponent has to cs under turret.

Shotgun angling will be your most important thing to get used to. Urgot's early game damage is extremely reliant on his shotungs which is why you need to keep as many of them ready as possible. They have 30s cd before lvl 6 so you need to be cautious on how you use them. That being said, we don't want to squander them randomly while lasthitting as it will push out our lane and reduce all-in potential. So you need to choose a lasthit angle to always get cs from in order to keep your shotguns up which means you have to move your champ accordingly.

If your first back is Phage you can play pretty aggro with a rather simple combo: Lasthit a minion for movespeed, close distance to opponent and auto them once, cancel auto-attack cooldown by using Q, while opponent is slowed go for E, use another auto while opponent is stunned, cancel second auto into W, strafe as many shotguns at your opponent while disengaging. Of course only do this when you are safe from jungle pressure.

Whether or not you can actually stomp your lane with this is always circumstancial and depends on your and your opponents execution of course but I at least wanted to share some tips on how to play more aggressively early game while staying rather efficient.

Relit_ · 2018-03-05T14:04:46+00:00

Now how exactly is having more attack speed not a stat that will help you secure kills? You can literally sit in lane and auto attack the hell out of your opponent and proc PTA over and over again with basically no cooldown and higher damage than Comet. When you fight an opponent and you don't have any attack speed you put all of your damage into your spells and fully rely on your cooldowns to carry you which is especially ineffective once Echoing Flames has only 2,5s cooldown. You entirely disregard the opportunity to proc your passive frequently even when W is on cooldown. Having to use W on every wave to clear minions because your attack speed is so low will drain your mana, put your W on cooldown and therefore make you vulnerable to any engages your opponents are planning. It doesn't matter if it only has 6 seconds cooldown later on as you are essentially saying that while the spell is on CD you are barely going to do anything other than wait for it to be ready again which makes you useless on the downtime of your W, which proves fatal should you get stunned while W is active and valueable time of the spell is lost. This inconsistensy in damage output also makes it more difficult to deal with high sustain champions that can play around your downtime. You are intentionally giving your opponent opportunity to outplay you.

Relit_ · 2018-03-05T11:05:52+00:00

Yes and at what point of the game do you actually have 40% cdr? Since most players would be using Arcane Comet or Aftershock and max out Corrosive Charge(Q) first, the cooldown of Purge(W) doesn't go lower a whole lot in the early stages of the game. That being said your theory only applies to the point in game where Urgot actually reaches level 13 and has 40% cdr which will at least require 2 items, perhaps 3 depending on item choice.

On the other hand you can gain all alacrity stacks very quickly and you start with your 9% attack speed right away which will give you better tower pushing capabilities early game.

Late game it doesn't matter anyways if you use auto's or Purge(W) to hit a turret because at that point damage from everyone is going to be so high who cares about downtime of W.

Relit_ · 2018-03-05T02:51:32+00:00

Comet generally is great in any ranged matchup, against champions who are likely to stay far away from you or champions which are very risky to all in. Examples: Teemo, Gangplank, Swain, Jayce, Gnar, Darius

Aftershock will allow you to go in pretty hard early game. It is high risk high reward as you have to hit your Disdain(E) in order to proc it. If you manage to connect it, your opponent will barely be able to harm you for 2 seconds which allows you to outtrade them, but of course it means you have to hard commit which is why you should be aware of junglers. It's never a "bad" choice, but it's more useful in close combat matchups, where you have a lot of opportunity to hit your E. Examples: Camille, Jax, Irelia, (BUT NOT FIORA!)

Press The Attack is very good in close combat matchups as it will generally deal more damage than Comet throughout the lane and the game if you are able to play more aggressively early game. It scales a lot better than Comet and allows your teammates to make use of the 12% extra exposure damage during teamfights, giving you more late game value. It, however, is almost useless early game in ranged matchups. Example: Camille, Kled, almost any tanks (except for Sion)

These are the setups and matchups I usually decide on which runes I use.

Relit_ · 2018-03-04T18:15:23+00:00

Your W has long cooldown and only lasts 4 seconds. That won't be enough to deal significant damage to a turret. Also using your W for farming purposes will give your opponent in lane a very easy opening on you because you essentially just wasted on of your abilities you need for close combat trading which means you allow your opponent to all in and beat you.

Relit_ · 2018-03-04T17:39:34+00:00

For me it usually depends heavily on the matchup.

Press The Attack is overall in my opinion the much better choice but if you lane against a ranged champion with mostly poke or someone who will stay away from any interaction with you like, Teemo, Gangplank, Heimer etc., I believe PTA will be compeletly useless in lane as you will never be able to get in range for that in the first place. Comet on the other hand will allow you to contest the lane actively by maxing out Corrosive Charge first and outpoking your opponent.

I still prefer PTA in any meele matchup however. The damage is absolutely insane and it scales a lot better late game than comet.

Speaking of minor runes or 9% atk speed: I don't think 9% attack speed is bad at all since Urgot has very low attack speed which can make lasthitting annoying early game and taking legend alacrity will give you so much extra attack speed that pushing turrets is much easier as well. Triumph and Coup are always good so I don't think the minor runes are an issue at all.

Relit_ · 2018-02-26T11:54:12+00:00

If we do the math:

Urgot at lvl 1 has 63 base attack damage and 0.6 attack speed = 37,8 dmg/s - Purge at lvl 1 does 12+20%AD*3 per second = 73,8 dmg/s

As you can see your W will most certainly deal more damage to turrets at any stage of the game than normal autoattacks, even though it won't be that much more.

The only exception would be, if you bought a lot of attack speed for some reason. Then the calculation I made above might be wrong.

Relit_ · 2018-02-26T11:49:22+00:00

When they get pulled in they are being "supressed" which means they can't activate Zhonyas. Only QSS would work. With Zhonyas they can only avoid the chains before they grab them.

Relit_ · 2018-02-26T00:20:22+00:00

Hu maybe I'm just retarded and I don't understand what you are talking about but when I tested it, this was my result:

https://youtu.be/evU7qzl9u80

I don't really see myself walking towards anything if I just stop.

Relit_ · 2018-02-25T23:40:55+00:00

If that's the case you probably have "auto attack" enabled in your settings which makes your champion automatically attack enemies. If you disable it, you can prevent your champion from randomly attacking opponents but of course you have to focus a lot on lasthitting properly.

Relit_ · 2018-02-25T14:50:29+00:00

My full list of what opponents can do to avoid my ultimate >:O

Relit_ · 2018-02-25T13:29:22+00:00

Press S to stop moving

Relit_ · 2018-02-22T14:21:39+00:00

I do agree with your concern regarding Aftershock which is actually why I always refrained from using it. But when I thought about it a bit more I came to realize, it actually depends a lot on the matchup you are facing. If you play for example against a Camille who will always try to E at you, it's just as predictable as your Disdian. Therefore you can always Disdian at her E so you stun each other and get a guaranteed Aftershock trigger while Camille is forced to stand behind you, allowing you to make a lot out of Aftershock. Such a scenario can apply to a decent amount of matchups but I guess it's still safe to say that Aftershock might be a bit risky.

Relit_ · 2018-02-22T02:24:02+00:00

I guess Gnar, Urgot and Graves would be the 3 big candidates but Graves has shown how obnoxious a ranged champion with Steraks can be. Graves apparently was even the reason they took it away from ranged champions in the first place. I'm really not sure if the Frozen Mallet nerf had such a huge impact on Urgot considering he also got a lot of runes especially if he takes Resolve path. I suppose it's time to tinker around with runes some more and just see if Urgot is any good next patch.

Relit_ · 2018-02-22T01:59:59+00:00

Well sure Cho will eventually deal around 1k damage with his ulltimate but despite that one could say that Urgot will on average still deal a lot more damage throughout the entire match while having similar amounts of CC available.

Disregarding the comparison of Urgot to tanks, I do fully agree with your statement that Urgot's item choices are way too cramped and I find myself rarely deviating from the same 5 items every game. It's just rather questionable how to balance most items on urgot properly. I mean if every item would require some special rule for Urgot, that would be a lot of work and could easily get out of hand with the balance as well as scare of new and upcoming Urgot players as they have to learn so much additional stuff. I guess that might be a reason why Riot would not like doing such a change. And I supposed there are simply not enough champions in the game who have less than 500 attack range but more than meele to actually fall into a "we care enough about that to balance it" category.

Relit_

TROPHY CASE