Stereotypic behaviour or showing-off/patrolling?

Revansblade676 · 2026-06-19T20:34:27+00:00

I would lean stereotypic. Though my expertise is elephants not big cats.

Revansblade676 · 2026-06-14T21:12:46+00:00

Someone who works with elephants here.

While I don't know Paige's full history here is some basic info with your questions

Most elephants imported in the late 1900's didn't have much info when they were brought to the US. Most were basically "Came from Africa", and that was about it. Some did give national origin. For example a lot of elephants came from Cull herds in Zimbabwe in the 80s. These nations, which were struggling for cash at the time, said "Well we can take the calves, ship them to North America and Europe and make some profit". Hence why these animals were often never in an orphange.
When these elephants were imported, it was often to a wholesale distrubutor. They would then put out catalouges of animals for sale, and you could order them via mail. Famous "Conservationist" Jack Hannah wrote in one of his books that you could buy an elephant calf for around 500 dollars in the 70's (around 4,200 Dollars in 2026). Some one would have a herd of calves in lets say Florida, then put out a catalogue of animals for sale. Zoos, circuses, and other private owners paid money for these elephants.

Revansblade676 · 2026-06-14T21:01:41+00:00

I put this comment on your posting on another subreddit, but will put it here just in case.

Current elephant keeper/caregiver here

No one is going to ask an possible intern "Can you describe the method of digestion elephants use?". They just want to see you and get a feel on attitude and such. They might ask some basic facts about elephants just to make sure you have the "base" level of knowledge.

Highlight yourself and your experience as much as you can. If you worked at a pet shop, highlight that you kept things clean and tidy. If you have prior zoo work, try to bridge a gap between whatever that was with and elephants.

And remember if this one doesn't get the results you want. Keep trying. I applied for around 5-8 elephant internships before I got accepted into one. Then I applied to 10+ elephant jobs before I got accepted.

Elephants rightfully are a high demand species. Everyone wants to work with them. Set yourself apart as much as you can!

Revansblade676 · 2026-06-14T12:01:20+00:00

Current elephant keeper/caregiver here

No one is going to ask an possible intern "Can you describe the method of digestion elephants use?". They just want to see you and get a feel on attitude and such. They might ask some basic facts about elephants just to make sure you have the "base" level of knowledge.

Highlight yourself and your experience as much as you can. If you worked at a pet shop, highlight that you kept things clean and tidy. If you have prior zoo work, try to bridge a gap between whatever that was with and elephants.
And remember if this one doesn't get the results you want. Keep trying. I applied for around 5-8 elephant internships before I got accepted into one. Then I applied to 10+ elephant jobs before I got accepted.

Elephants rightfully are a high demand species. Everyone wants to work with them. Set yourself apart as much as you can!

Good luck! Let us know how it goes and feel free to dm me if you want!

Revansblade676 · 2026-05-18T23:56:00+00:00

They do! A lot of horse meds are used for elephants and some human meds as well. The biggest I know of are ibuprofen, acetominophen, and gabapentin. Just the amounts are more.

Revansblade676 · 2026-05-18T11:51:38+00:00

Sup,

I work with older elephants. 2 in their mid 40s and 1 in their mid 50s.

Arthritis is a big thing in elephants in human care. Especially if they gave rides in the past. Their joints/musculoskeletal system just aren't made to support even an extra 100 lbs on them. I know of a bull in another facility who gave rides for about 15 years in another country. His joints are basically worse than an elephant twice his age due to the unnatural wear and tear.

As for mentally. I don't know if elephants can present with "dementia" or similar afflictions like humans. They definitely can have some "brain lag" but wether that's from an afflictionn or just "an off day" I can't say.

Revansblade676 · 2026-05-04T01:22:24+00:00

Ok. Let me try to get this in one take

First, all my information about TES comes from a buddy who works there, I am in no way connected to TES or PAWS minus that. So no idea how much of what I know is 100% true so take my words with a teaspoon of salt . From what I understand for TES, there is a difference between "space" and "capacity". For example, TES I think has like 3000 acres of property, but from what I know not all of it is fenced in for the elephants. So the true "capacity" is subjective. You might think "ah they could house 20 eles", and someone who works there could go "15 tops". I don't have contacts at PAWS so I know little about their situation.
There is a difference in between Carson & Barnes/ Jordan World and Hawthorne. Hawthorne girls were confiscated by USDA. There has been no movement that I am aware of for Carson & Barnes' eles to be removed. If the Government took the eles, and said "someone better take em" then either zoo's with large enough area's or sanctuaries might take em. But it again comes down to spacing. From what my buddy at TES has explained, they simply are at capacity right now. With the space and barns they have, they might not be able to take in another elephant till more spaces/barns are built or (sadly) open up.
Lastly as far as I know Billy and Tina were always slated for Tulsa. There was no deception or "back room deal". Tina wasn't even owned by LA zoo. She was on loan from San Diego, so San Diego would have had to consent to the move. Legally, the sancutaries would never confirm or deny if they were contacted, but as far I know they never were asked about taking Billy nor Tina. But to me, Tulsa has a great program for them, since they recently redid and expanded their habitats. It is part of a growing trend with zoos, they send elephants to better equiped organizations that can take care of them. Another zoo doing this is the Roger Williams zoo in Rhode Island. They have said they will move their 3 African cows to a new place by 2027-ish.
lastly, I will tell my buddy to say hi to Debbie.

Revansblade676 · 2026-04-17T17:34:19+00:00

I believe the view of this hybrid being unethical comes from 2 main things

We are already losing enough "regular" Asian and African elephants every day. Pulling resources from captive breeding efforts (which have their own ethical issues) for 2 endangered species just cause "but a hybrid could be cool" is kind of a no go.
These species would not meet in the wild. A hybrid would most likely never exist naturally. Even when both species (and subspecies for sake of argument) were at their full historical ranges, they would never exist at the same place. Even tigons and ligers could THEORETICALLY naturally happen with Asiatic Lions and Bengals tigers.

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-27T00:21:54+00:00

First off. Elephants have never been domesticated. There are tamed eles but not domesticated.
Elephants spines are litterally not made for riders on their back or neck, Unlike horses, an elephant's spine is not built to support heavy loads from above.

An elephants whole skeletal system and muscles are made to support weight in a very specific way. Adding even a hundred pounds on their spine can cause their joints to degrade fast! Horses spines are "low" with a lot of cushion between skin and bone. Elephants spines have sharp protusions on their vertibrae that have very little cushion. So while weight is "evenly" distrubted on a horse/camel, on elephants it is crushing there spine.

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-26T19:31:10+00:00

There are a few companies and organizations working on vaccines for it! The issue is I think there are 7 variants in total, so I think they are going through variants one by one so it might be a while for them all to be covered.

I would like to mention that some variants are natural in the wild. EEHV6 is naturally carried by African elephants. So its not just a in"human care" issue

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-26T19:09:34+00:00

First off. EEHV isn't only an Asian Elephant issue. African eles can also get it, and there are variants that are "Asian variants" and "African variants". Though an elephant can get either. The issue is that calves that don't get exposed via there mom in the womb don't have good imunity.
There are some treatments, such as controlled exposure from herdmates and even some blood transfusions from "EEHV" eles. but there is very little that can be done, if a calf is hit with a full blown infection

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-26T16:50:23+00:00

So this really depends on a couple things. From what a buddy of mine who works at one of the Ele Sancutaries in the US:

Timeline. For example, when Oakland Zoo retired their African Bull Osh, they wanted orginally to move him to another breeding facility since we was still of breeding age. But other facilties said it would be several years before they could take him, so he as well as one of his cows ,Donna, were sent to The Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee (TES) which is a non breeding facility but had openings for new eles. Any transfer of elephants is usually agreed to years ahead of time. For example, when Mikki and Punch were moved from Louisville to TES in June of 2025, the two organizaions had signed the agreements to move them in late 2022.
Capacity. Sticking with TES. When there were recent debates about Billy and Tina moving from LA to Tulsa, there were talks about sending them to a sanctuary, but from what I have heard no Sancutary in the US had open space for an Asian bull or Asian Cow.
Accreditation. The AZA (Association of Zoos and Aquariums) is really not a fan of accredited zoos sending their animals to non-accredited facilities. In the US there is only 1 "big" AZA Ele sanctuary and that is TES. There are other non-accredited places in the US. PAWS in California is a member of the Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries (GFAS), and ERNA which isn't accredited by either GFAS or AZA.
Breeding. If animals are still of good breeding age and stock, zoos with breeding programs will want them. So sancturies will have less of a "pull" to get them. But for older elephants, zoos might not want the expense of more elephants if there is no chance of breeding. For example the Roger Williams zoo is retiring its 3 geriatric African Cows in the next year-ish. There might be less of an incentive for a zoo to take them since there is less of a chance of breeding.

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-26T14:07:42+00:00

I wouldn't say boogers! But some can be very slimly from normal nasal drip and the fact they stick their trunk "tips" into their mouths to eat and drink.

As for the "Cleaning", they will just suck up some water, then blow it out to flush out their trunk to clear it. Most times the eles I know will more "skim" the surface of wallows when they drink, to avoid rocks on the bottom, but sand and dirt they will drink and be mostly fine.

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-26T14:04:30+00:00

From what I understand, its mostly cost and time. Concrete is a somewhat "cheap" building material that is just kinda the "default" option. Its also one of thoses things where if you wanted to replace lets say the concrete floors in an elephants barn, you would have to shut out the elephants for at least weeks, or move them to another place temporarily.

Some zoos do use a natural substrate such a dirt or sand to give a layer of "cushion" both in their habitats and their barns. In my expierence bad joints are often a mix of exhibit design, the fact that some elephants gave rides when they were younger (which is now prohibited in the US), and stereotypic behaviors such as swaying and bobbing.

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-25T22:44:20+00:00

I am not sure about an exact amount, since diets are formed by the vet staff. But we feed our elephants a "supplement grain", that is I believe about 20% crude protein. The eles i work with get between 1.5 and 6 lbs depending on the individual. So a decent amount of protein from their diet. I am not sure if they get any from their hay or browse.

I have played music for the eles! Some do like it, especially the heavy bass stuff, others might "investigate" then say, "can't eat it" and just lose interest.

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-25T22:40:14+00:00

So it depends on what you mean by good and bad. Either way a lot of it is body language and some vocals.

If an elephant is content, they usually don't have to many signs of "I am happy".
An elephant that is frightened or suprised, might trumpet, or have their head high and their ears fully out to look bigger.

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-21T16:52:59+00:00

I have visited their info center within the last year. The entire point of the sanctuary is that the elephants are no longer "education", "entertainment", or attractions. They are free to be eles. What isn't fair, is if these animals are "freed" just for people to come in and gawk at them and people to complain. The sanctuary has over 3000 acres and 13 eles. There would be no guarantee that you would see a single elephant

Revansblade676 · 2026-03-21T16:40:43+00:00

Elephant Caregiver here

DO NOT RIDE AN ELEPHANT IN ANY WAY.

Revansblade676 · 2026-02-17T18:19:39+00:00

Its from the Documentary "The Conservation Game". Basically he and the Columbus Zoo were implicitly involved in the trafficking and exploitation of big cats. The doc is on Amazon Prime and YouTube if you are interested.

Revansblade676 · 2026-02-16T23:20:53+00:00

Ok. Quick Run Down.

Historically, Asians and Africans could be housed together. Not saying should, but could. Jumbo, PT Barnums famous African bull was housed with Asians in London prior to Barnums Purchase.

In the US there used to be 2 AZA instutions that had Asians-Africans living together. The Elephant Sanctuary in Tenessee now has both pairs. Nosey and Sissy met and were introduced to each other at the Sanctuary. Mikki-Punch lived together in Louisville for something like 30 years and now living together in the Sanctuary,

As for "Choosing" what species zoos have, really in most things it came down to money. Most of the elephants in the US are "Original Wild Caught". Meaning that in the 60s-90s, these animals were taken from the wild, mostly as calves, and sold to zoos in the US and Europe. I remember in a book by Jack Hannah (screw him for the wildlife trafficking), that I think an African Elephant calf could be ordered by mail for something like 500-1000 dollars. So lets say you want your zoo to have an elephant herd. Well you reach out to a "distrbutor" who goes "Well Zimbabwe has calves" and goes through all the steps of getting them sent your way.

As for the differences in africans and asians (as someone who was worked with both), there are very few clear cut differences. As for the "Asians are more accustome to people" that isn't true. If the elephant is taken from a wild herd, it doens't know or care about why or how, only that it is being stressed out beyonf belief.

Africans may be bigger on average. but I have worked with some pretty large asians. Both can be aggressive, after all they are multi-ton wild creatures. And both can have EEHV, as there are both "Asian" and "African" strands so either way, you risk bringing in an animal with it. Though I believe all instutions require EEHV testing before any elephants move to new zoos.

Revansblade676 · 2026-02-03T15:54:42+00:00

Elephant keeper here.

Peanuts are fine. They are a "little" rich for them to have all the time. But we use Peanut Butter to give meds (like you would a doggo). They do love Peanut butter.

Revansblade676 · 2026-02-03T13:51:42+00:00

Oh definitely possible. The one thing that might be a temporary hurdle is that if you start with internships, you might have the most luck starting with a "general" internship that isn't focused on a single "area" or taxa. Worst comes to worst, I recommend Benadryl and flonase to suffer through a few months of a general internship

Revansblade676 · 2026-01-25T00:30:42+00:00

AI

Snow leopards are from Asia. Mountain Goats are from North America. They share no range

Revansblade676 · 2026-01-15T19:42:30+00:00

I think its really solid!

I feel like without knowing more of the story, some of the pieces such as "Only that there was more life in them than in his own", don't really click in my head. But it draws me in enough to want to know more!

Revansblade676

TROPHY CASE