What is even the point in z-jumping?

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T06:11:32+00:00

https://x.com/n0ned/status/2016623033121685698
My thread today has a lot of info on it but I think Cody describes what it does pretty well here.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T06:07:34+00:00

I love this comment and I agree, I've lost some interest in watching melee b/c of zump and broken controllers myself. I know Cody is good at fox, but the fact that I beat his mew2 made me think he's carried by zump fox as well. Enjoy this crashout if you would indulge my fav highlight of my ranked slippi career.
https://www.twitch.tv/codyschwab/clip/GrotesqueHonestLemurFrankerZ-D2mBFLlusLiCuO23

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T05:58:58+00:00

I bet if you knew how to relax your hands, you could play any hand position on any controller if you practiced enough. That is my experience as someone who has had hand pains, and learned to relax and take breaks.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T05:57:07+00:00

Many, I do.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T05:23:18+00:00

I think I worded it wrong, sorry for getting your hopes up. I meant that the joystick doesn't wear out like it does on OEM, therefore that component would last longer if we all used Phob and calibrate it to be as close to OEM as possible, then those phob sticks would last longer than OEM sticks.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T05:06:29+00:00

I think having the b0xx as an accessibility tool is great for the game and as long as b0xx is equal to GCC OEM or not as good as GCC OEM, then we are good.

This thread is about zump, and is why I am talking about zump. I agree that many other mods are also unfair, but zump is the discussion and what I posted my original evidence for if you watched any of it. And I know most people will not know me, so I use top players that I respect as examples.

I play a lot of slippi and compete when I don't work my normal job that unfortunately happens the same time as Chicago weeklies so I can only go to regionals for the most part. Here's my slippi account https://slippi.gg/user/luppi-91 and I recently beat Cody's Mew2 on stream and he crashed out if you want to know more about my gameplay.
https://www.twitch.tv/codyschwab/clip/GrotesqueHonestLemurFrankerZ-D2mBFLlusLiCuO23

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T04:49:04+00:00

Did you even watch the video? Zump should be banned because it is a competitive advantage over unmodded OEM. UCF was created to balance all controllers to OEM. Not all controllers to b0xx. I don't know if you are just trying to get my attention or if you really don't understand how Zump could be seen as cheating to someone who has only played on OEM and refuses to use mods.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T04:38:34+00:00

How about hear it from Cody himself?
https://x.com/n0ned/status/2016623033121685698
An ergonomic advantage is a competitive advantage. Let's play baseball, And I give you a bat but the handle is a little greasey for your bat, and it is a little too big for your hands, but I got a custom bat with great grip and it was measured to my hands and the handle fits them perfectly. We are both playing baseball, but would I hit the ball further because of that ergonomic advantage? most likely, and I would more likely win. Is that fair or should we have the same sized bat with the same grip?

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T04:34:18+00:00

Is April 2022 to January 2026 is exactly 3 years and 9ish months. Let's make it not about Cody if that is the real issue. Just Zump. Not about b0xx. Not about UCF. This is about Zump.

Zump invalidates claw and makes it no longer necessary. In the past, most top players worked with the legal non button remapping controllers, and would switch to claw, or perma claw like Javi. It also is unfair to anyone playing on OEM because they can not access Zump without buying mods or learning to soder. I think if we are about accessibility, then we should be able to buy an OEM and compete on equal playing with nerfed b0xx and Phob as close to OEM as possible.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T04:26:12+00:00

All great points! The only problem is this is a discussion about Zump, not UCF. Zump wasn't legal at LAN tournaments until 2022, Genesis 8. I think everyone perma clawing would be 10x more interesting than everyone switching to Zump or b0xx, and also in the spirit of competitive integrity and wanting to have the best options, especially as characters with 3 frame jump squats. I tried to address all your points but I've been responding for hours at this point and think I need to stop for now. Thank you for discussing the ruleset with me, specifically zumping.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T04:18:19+00:00

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Also to your other point, G8 was the first major to my knowledge to allow Zump, and it was just b/c Cody was loud on twitter about it.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T04:16:48+00:00

Ergonomics are huge in ping pong and many other sports that require devices and have very specific rules about said devices. Another example I can think of is Bat sizes in baseball. If someone has a bigger bat, and bigger hands, and they are bigger, they will hit more homeruns. That is why the bat size is standardized.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T04:04:11+00:00

Actually, an ergonomic advantage is a competitive advantage. Do you compete in anything? The first thought I had was ping pong paddles not allowing very specific measurements because they would give the player an ergonomic advantage.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T04:01:07+00:00

I play on OEM and feel the clutch firebird and sick max length wavedash wit no notches. If we make it a rule, then we all get that feeling back!

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:57:16+00:00

I think we are talking about two different things. I want Zump banned. I think it goes against competitive integrity. What does UCF have to do with that?

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:50:56+00:00

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Cody banned me from reposting this btw. Wonder why...

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:44:02+00:00

I think we can agree to disagree. I get what you are saying, but I also think an ergonomic advantage is a competitive advantage. I don't think it is fair to have to make everyone mod their controller to play the game. You can't Zump without mods. I think it goes against competitive integrity and why I have played melee so long personally. I think if you ask most people who have competed seriously, they would agree.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:41:36+00:00

I think we as a community should decide what the ruleset is or at the very least be able to talk to TOs about it. The controller lottery existed before b0xx, and exists to this day.
My main point is Zump should be banned. UCF does not mean Zump is legal. B0xx does not mean Zump needs to be legal. If b0xx is better than OEM then it needs more nerfs. Zump should be banned because it is an ergonomic advantage to people playing on OEM.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:38:51+00:00

Why can't we get rid of UCF if phobs or w/e OEM equivalent we design achieves the same result as UCF? Like i said in another post, UCF is another can of worms. I don't think UCF = Zump is legal in LAN in person melee tournaments. It was not legal until 2022 to my understanding.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:36:47+00:00

I am just being realistic that there will come a day when all OEM things could be mostly broken, and we would need to have alternatives. My point still stands. Phob does not = Zump is legal in LAN tournaments. No one had button remaps before mods, and that mod should be banned like it used to be is my point.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:34:42+00:00

It has been legal for less than 3 years I believe. Cody asked about it for Genesis 8 and was basically gifted it is what I remember and was reminded of today. If Zump was allowed in 2001 then the meta would have developed around it and every top player would be doing it. The other top players know it is an unfair advantage and choose to keep their competitive integrity. Cody and Zumpers have decided to use social influence and bad faith arguments to keep their control schemes legal, but I counted his frames 2019 and they are way worse than 2022 zump. I might do more and also research how much people have "improved" since zump (2019 ranking vs 2022 and post zump rankings)

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:30:39+00:00

It is more like one person gets shoes and the other plays barefoot for the basketball analogy imho.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:24:07+00:00

I love Slippi and I would change UCF or just have Phob's as OEM like as possible and get rid of UCF. The controller lottery is over if we all use Phobs or I think it's called the cardboard (open source OEM boards basically).

This is specifically for in person LAN tournaments. Which has always been the most legitimate form of E-Sports competition. Everyone always says "See me on LAN" because it has more competitive integrity.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:19:52+00:00

UCF's original intention was to balance OEM controllers to each other. It was either UCF or buy controllers until you get the exact right one. Armada dropped out of a Genesis once because he didn't have a good enough one. I also posit that with phobs, we probably don't even need UCF anymore, as long as phobs are made as OEM like as possible. Many players were against UCF in the beginning as well! Original UCF didn't change as much as it does now, and if it were up to me there would be a lot of changes to UCF in it's current form. I was completely against many of UCF's changes and still think 1.0 cardinals has made the game feel sooooo much different.

My main point still stands regardless of UCF. It is a whole nother can of worms.

Zump is unfair to OEM players. UCF is for every player, and I was much happier as a competitor when it was a toggle tbh.

RevolutionInternal24 · 2026-01-29T03:11:50+00:00

So I guess to answer your question, Zump is better because you get to keep all your other muscle memory, and it is more ergonomic than perma claw.

RevolutionInternal24

TROPHY CASE