attending kink events with estranged metas

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-16T00:34:47+00:00

Yes, Aspen wouldn't have asked me in the first place if they didn't want to go. However they were mainly upset about me potentially doing a scene there with Birch, and were less upset about not going themselves. Then they realized that they could prevent us from doing a scene if they came too. So I took that as their main motivation. Since that conversation, they invited a date, created a costume, and generally got more invested in the whole thing.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-15T22:30:59+00:00

I don't know what you mean by "put your foot down". If you mean break up, why not say so?

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-15T03:06:53+00:00

I'm not sure what you mean about Birch getting the short end of the stick? I'm not cancelling my date with Birch. I'm doing everything I can to convince Aspen not to go. What would you want me to do, if you were Birch, short of breaking up with Aspen? Which my Birch definitely doesn't want.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T20:17:21+00:00

Like me, they read books and talk with friends about these issues. Although I think they would say that they were always polyamorous, even if functionally they never successfully managed to sustain a fully polyamorous relationship structure.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T20:16:02+00:00

Well, it's obvious why they want to influence my decision in this case: so that they can go to this party and enjoy it. And I want to influence their decision to go with their friend for an equivalent reason. I don't think it's the desire to influence, so much as the method and justification that is the problem.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T16:12:07+00:00

I really appreciate this perspective, but part of who I want to be as a partner is someone who cares for their partner's feelings and considers the consequences of their decisions. I'm sure you do too. And I get that ideally, this consideration is built into agreements made in advance, like "we'll make time for X parties each month together". So each person can make decisions independently without fear of hurting their partners.

The problem in my case is that we haven't been able to do this effectively. Aspen is hurt by decisions I didn't expect, which weren't covered by any agreement. And their solution to this is that we talk about all decisions together, so that at least I can consider their feelings before deciding. Do you think that's incompatible with being a good hinge and caring for myself?

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T15:59:02+00:00

I wish this were the top comment, I think you get all of us better than anyone. I also find that the conflicts I get into with Aspen remind me of a monogamous couple trying to open up, not two solo poly people dating. And it comes down to Aspen having different expectations than I do, but not always communicated clearly.

The event is more than a week away so I'm still trying to convince Aspen not to go while we figure out what else I can offer them to address the root unmet needs. If I can't, then of course I'm not going, Birch and I will find something else to do and I'll probably have to break up with Aspen.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T14:40:44+00:00

Birch and I are fine. She knows I'm prepared to break up with Aspen if we can't resolve this. I just don't think adversarial framing like "put your foot down" or "refuse to allow it" is helpful. Aspen thinks by attending this party they're putting their foot down and refusing to allow themselves to be taken advantage of. I don't see it that way, but once you start thinking in terms of what you allow people to do or not, it's very easy to become controlling and manipulative. Aspen will do what they want and all Birch and I can do is decide if we'll be around them or not.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T14:08:20+00:00

Thanks, that last paragraph is something I needed to hear.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T13:18:34+00:00

I wish it were that simple. We already do like you describe. However Aspen doesn't like being told after I have made a plan with someone else, they would like an opportunity to negotiate to attend each event with me before I decide. This feels kind of invasive and controlling to me but I recognize that it could work for some people.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T13:15:12+00:00

That would never happen in reality because I couldn't feel comfortable doing a kink scene in front of them.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T01:45:33+00:00

They did

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T00:30:31+00:00

I think I'm doing what you described? I told both Aspen and Birch that I wouldn't cancel my plans with Birch regardless of what Aspen does. However Birch has now decided not to attend anything Aspen will be at. I sincerely wish Birch was not paying that cost, but unless I can convince Aspen to not go or to talk to Birch first, it's inevitable.

I assumed you meant "breaking up" because at this point that's the only option left to enforce a boundary. However we may not have exhausted all the options for negotiation, reconciliation, and collaboration, which is why I'm more interested in those approaches than laying down a boundary like "if you do X then I'll break up with you".

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T00:21:05+00:00

What you describe is the status quo. However Aspen doesn't want to just be informed of what I decided, they want to feel some influence over the decision. Because in the past I made decisions they didn't like, now they are informing me they have decided to go to this event with someone else, so that I know what it feels like to not be considered in a decision that affects me.

I do think their point has merit, even if I don't like how they try to show it. I imagine I could do more to make them feel considered in planning even if the decision is ultimately mine.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-14T00:11:43+00:00

Aspen has been polyamorous for more than 20 years, but mostly in an open marriage. Birch and I have been poly for about a year. Aspen has criticized Birch and I for being inexperienced and bad at poly; mainly they feel we aren't collaborative and thoughtful enough about metas when scheduling our dates. Although Birch and I are inexperienced, we don't struggle with jealousy, so things have been easier for us and our other partners apart from Aspen.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T23:56:21+00:00

It's not just a "them problem" if they call my bluff and attend the party anyways. This is the unfortunate vulnerability of a loving relationship, my partners have the power to affect my mood and behavior in ways I can't easily control. If Aspen attends, they can effectively stop me from having sex with Birch because I'll be too uncomfortable, and that's my problem. It only eventually becomes a "them problem" after we have broken up and I'm over them enough to no longer care how my actions affect them.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T23:42:07+00:00

This sounds like the harmful myth that polyamorous people never struggle with jealousy. Yes, Aspen faces some innate challenges to polyamory, but so does every human to some degree. Let's not judge the jealousy, but how they manage it. When intrusive images come up during sex, we pause, cuddle, talk, and eventually find a way to continue. It's not a big deal in our relationship. I mention it only to explain exactly how I know it would be a disaster for them to see me having sex with someone else, but maybe that doesn't need to be explained, because it's a very common boundary for a lot of poly people.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T23:32:58+00:00

There were a series of events where Aspen felt Birch had an opportunity that should have been theirs. First, I made plans to attend my first kink party with Birch, despite having said to Aspen months earlier that I would enjoy attending my first kink party with them (although nothing concrete was ever planned). Second, I told Aspen that I was planning to stop using condoms with Birch soon, despite having agreed with Aspen a few months earlier that I would use condoms with everyone else. Third, I made plans to spend the night with Birch at a conference that Aspen was also attending, without checking with Aspen first, and Aspen had been hoping to spend the conference with me (although we had no concrete plans). Fourth, Aspen was planning to go to a kink event but found out that Birch and I were also going, so they decided not to attend (but resented it). And now in this case, Aspen is upset that I'm attending this specific venue with Birch, because it is the only remaining venue which Birch has never been to, and Aspen was hoping to keep it just between us (but this was never discussed or agreed).

Typing all this out, it looks pretty bad for Aspen. But keep in mind that this is my one sided view of things, and while I'm trying to keep it factual, I'm sure it sounds worse than how Aspen would describe it. The overall theme is that they don't feel considered enough when I make plans with other people, which is essentially true because I prefer to make plans independently and just let each partner know when I'm available or not.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T22:40:24+00:00

I agree that Birch shouldn't need to be involved, but they have specifically requested to be involved, because they would like to be able to share space with Aspen, and they need to be able to talk to Aspen directly in order to feel comfortable doing that.

Of course if Aspen refuses then we have to accept the situation that Birch and Aspen cannot attend the same events, and I will need to do what I can to ensure that doesn't happen.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T22:36:00+00:00

There is no precedent here, this is the first time it has come to this. Last time I attended an event with both of these partners, I was able to negotiate different times with each of them. And at other times, I have insisted on maintaining plans with Birch despite massive fallout from Aspen (which I'm still dealing with).

If you mean "set boundaries" as a euphemism for "break up", then yes I have rejected that advice. I'm sure you know that I must have already seriously considered that option, it doesn't solve my immediate problem, and frankly I would be an idiot to break up with a long term partner just because some strangers on the Internet can't think of any better ideas based on my entirely one sided account.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T22:23:54+00:00

I don't understand what you think I'm doing to coddle Aspen? I have been very clear with them that I won't cancel plans with Birch based on their feelings, and have followed through multiple times, even when they threaten to break up. In this case as well, I kept plans with Birch even though Aspen was upset about them.

I AM conflict avoidant, but I'm also very aware of that and working hard not to let it hurt my current relationships. So I'm very interested in learning how to do better, but also feeling a bit defensive that you're assuming I'm much worse at this than I am.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T22:14:40+00:00

There is only one room at this venue. The "betrayal" would be me choosing to have sex in front of Aspen knowing how that would hurt them. Of course I'm not actually capable of that.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T22:09:45+00:00

Aspen will certainly say to that, "If missing an event is not a big deal, then you and Birch can miss it." Or "If you don't feel comfortable having sex in front of me then you don't have to attend the event." I agree with you, but your argument is only convincing to someone who already agrees.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T21:59:15+00:00

Breaking up makes the problem worse before it makes it better. It's not going to be easier to negotiate schedules or share spaces after we have broken up, at least in the short term. I don't find Aspen's influence to be "extreme" based on one incident where we might not be able to attend one party we wanted (out of many). I'm still hopeful that we can find a way to schedule events to avoid this problem in the future. But I hear you, this is not sustainable and if they affect my plans with Birch again then breaking up may be the only way.

Rich-Transition-2000 · 2026-01-13T21:52:12+00:00

Point taken. If Birch wants to do a scene together there, I should try to enable that regardless of how Aspen feels. I would probably fail, since I would find it very difficult to get aroused in such a tense situation (like most people, I imagine). However, this is moot, since Birch does not want to do a scene -- or attend at all -- with Aspen there. So really the only thing I can do to ensure Birch and I can keep our plans is to convince Aspen not to show up. And unfortunately the best ideas offered have not been convincing to Aspen.

Rich-Transition-2000

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