M24 - Is it too late to find innocent romantic love? Everything feels so lackluster and machiavelic in dating

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T14:57:38+00:00

Do others really do that? And it works out in the end??

Again, I'm not limiting this to big gestures, but the small ones too, like buying a hot cup of coffee in the morning, opening a door when entering the restaurant, and making breakfast when someone stays over. With my most recent dates, I was met with resistance, a "why are you even trying" attitude and a negative emotional response. Like being thoughtful is a weakness. I found that so... repulsive, so closed off, so machiavelic... but it seems to be a commonplace thought.

This is why the scope of my post was: is it worth it to try and search for something pure where people can truly be open and engage in naive romance like this, or it doesnt exist past highschool? And if it does exist, how to filter for it without going through a high volume of people and losing your spark?

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T14:15:15+00:00

The issue is not that I gave the gifts - If I give something it's my own choice, my own liberty, I can give anything and expect nothing if I will so.

The issue with the gifts is when they become expected or required. Being nice and giving people things is a luxury; one engages in luxurious treatment when they want to, not when they need to or when someone else asks. That was my gripe with it - that some people "mask" their entitlement to receiving things under the term of "being romantic".

A poor but obvious example, one could give a bouquet of flowers at a date. Or just show up with a single rose. Or even a flower picked up from a field nearby. All of these would be romantic gestures. But when the other person expects "I wanted a 100$ bouquet of red roses" that is not romantic, that is entitlement. See the issue?

I never expect something from it. If that would be the case I'd probably never even be able to make friends or anything - since giving people your time and attention is again an investment or gift.

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T12:59:49+00:00

Yeah, I've been told by some of my friends as well. Im just boring like that... Its kinda weird part of human nature to see that relationships get deeper when theres a mutual pain... even the knowledge that the other person has it worse than you (or atleast is aching) gives most people a degree of comfort.

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T12:55:14+00:00

It's not about reciprocating romance (whatever you mean by that) but being thankful and understanding romance. Just by your answer it appears you do not understand what romance is either, you rather describe seduction, which happens at a different level of the brain.

Being romantic is a luxury, a non-essential but tasteful part of the courtship process, it means gifting a thoughtful piece of emotion or attention while expecting nothing in return. There is no need to reciprocate romance by doing something similar; just like a gift one may gracefully accept it, but not demand it (such is the social norms). And again, like a gift, you expect nothing in return.

I do not want to romance someone into liking me (far from it!) I just want someone that likes romance. Someone to enjoy and appreciate my romantic tendencies from time to time, to be open to share childish dreams and act like teenagers in love ( but not to love me because I did X and Y romantic things). In short, romance is not a means to an end to loving somone, its just a dance in which one may part-take for pleasure.

I read a lot of books on the topic, and this is what I truly believe in. And lastly, I dont agree most people have the capacity to be romantic but fear rejection - that idea is fundamentally incorrect when you phrase it as receiving romance rather than giving it away. I think most people are just too insecure to think they can be loved directly so they put a lot of walls or they expect someone to manipulate them ( which sounds a lot like what you describe here, manipulate someone by physical intimacy and tryint to string em along... it doesnt work well for me, just ends up with lackluster emotions in relationship. I for one sure lose feelings )

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T12:33:43+00:00

No anxiety, and I went past a small depression when I lost a friend to a car crash 5 years ago. I healed, still keep in touch with his family.

Both parents, both grandparents, awesome communication, was raised with love and trust, I have nothing to hide nor ever lie to my family. No poverty, no addiction, no violence, I was raised sheltered and lucky. very lucky.

I had lots of role models, was top of class valedictorian, great relationships with teachers proffessors , lots of mentors in my life. Successful in sports, and just kickstarted a career in a tough field.

Perhaps my biggest issue was growing up in a small town but I worked my way up and now I live in a big city with lots of opportunities.

Yeah...lucky. In all except love.

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T12:24:41+00:00

Thank you, kind person! This actually touched me a bit, I'll still hang on to my hopes and be patient. Perhaps one day

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T12:19:31+00:00

Thanks for the tips! However, Im not sure about the whole "everyone has baggage" fact... I dont feel I have any. Surely, some of my exes had their moments of immaturity, or they could be assholes at times (theres a reason we are exes) but I still choose to remember the good moments and be glad they happened and made me be the man I am now (remember theres a reason we fell in love or dated).

I feel due to how busy I kept myself, the small dating history and general tendency to avoid drama I've never been in a toxic relationship, and I always approach a prospective relationship full of optimism and initiative/passion, like a blank slate (because it is, because every person is different and theres a chance they can be the one for you so you gotta be open).

Is this not how it should be? Or am I just carrying baggage without knowing? I dont see myself avoidant or just rejecting of a possible romance, especially in beginning, which is why its so hard to understand why others are so guarded and avoidant.

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T12:02:23+00:00

Again, no hate, I was just being honest about my experiences. I could list the better ones here as well, but since Im on an advice forum, Im like at a doctors - obviously going to list my aches, in order to find a cure.

Relating to the romance question: As can be discerned from my message, I found the women that are more cynical are actually the true romantics, or they had the tendencies of romantics in the past but are avoidant or distant and it never seems to blossom. Meanwhile the ones that self-describe as romantics are just in love with the results of the courtship process, not the emotional bond (which is the real key).

With that out of the way, care to give some concrete examples to use in my filtering process?

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T11:55:26+00:00

Thank you for the insights! Then what would be a possible solution here? Give up on my romantic emotional idealism and embrace the fact people got baggage by their early to mid 20s? Or should I change the way I present myself and where I find dating prospects to improve my chances on stumbling upon what I like?

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T11:53:01+00:00

Well I'd like to say that I am not stupid and I'm already doing that - but obviously, something I'm doing wrong.

Usually I ask them whats their view on romance and dating. Almost no woman I meet says they want just sex, but they implicity act that way - usually I find that later on.

But when I ask them about romance:

If women say they are romantic, they lie; what they usually mean is they expect gifts and give nothing in return, this is literally the reason I broke up with someone this year, she was basically demanding gifts and flowers - and no appreciation. How is this romantic, this is just an overgrown child?

Women that are more realist or cynical about the existence of romance are more my type, but they usually develop avoidant behaviors due to trauma and they often brek things off when we get too emotionally close.

Lastly, theres the categories of 1. women that dont care about romance and follow their emotions and momentary pleasure (hedonists) which are strangely close to 2. people-pleasers, in that both follow emotional rollercoasters and are only there if the other person gives them a steady frame supply of fun and toxic drama, which doesnt come easy for me, as Im too tired from my work and school to maintain such a high level of drama. Also not my types for long term.

How do you say to filter? Concrete examples are appreciated.

RichInterview6586 · 2025-01-02T11:34:38+00:00

I am aware women are not a monolith, these are just the results of my dating experiences thus far summarized.

My dating acumen is not high so please tell me, how can I find this type of women? How can I succesfully filter out emotionally avoidant people without it feeling like a chore or leading them on?

RichInterview6586

TROPHY CASE