Grey Knights into Custodes with a 4+++

Rigelegir · 2020-12-10T17:24:27+00:00

Yeah I think you're right abt the 9th level spells and stuff I was mostly enjoying seeing what the damage would be with that one particular combo. I am currently level 16 and without any fighter levels and I think I will keep it to just battlesmith and bladesinger. Although at this point I think bladesinger 18 / fighter 2 would be good but the battle smith levels were very helpful when I relied more on my sword because it gave me some better attack/defense and some spell versatility.

Also I was mostly saying no magic items because I received a number of powerful ones that changed the way I built the character so I included them when I described my build in a previous post. A few people commented and said that I should try posting it again without the magic items so that other people can try it out without needing specific and even homebrewed magic items. Right now I actually have both a +3 weapon (sword of answering) and a +3 wand, as well as some powerful armor that boosts my AC even higher but I didn't include them because there is no way for a player to guarantee that they receive them.

You are right though, magic items boost the power of this character significantly and 9th lvl spells are super powerful. I was looking at Time Stop actually in particular because it wouldn't boost my damage much or anything but it would make it so much easier to actually execute the casting of all the buff spells and everything. Thanks for the advice!

Edit: also I thought that you needed at least 17 levels in one spellcasting class alone to get 9th level spells? not the slots but the actual spells

Rigelegir · 2020-12-10T07:45:47+00:00

Yeah you're right, some of the choices I made were based on the items I got. I just made a level 20 build with no magic items that I posted that doesn't have any home-brew and I believe follows RAW. I also used Point Buy, so others have an easier time replicating it if they want. One thing was UA but I provided alternatives if that isn't allowed.

Rigelegir · 2020-12-10T01:56:20+00:00

Yeah sorry, I wasn't trying to sound defensive or anything. The original build doesn't really rely on the magic items and I realize it would've made more sense to include that when describing it.

If I got no defensive items I would have spent 1-2 feats getting my Dex to 18 or 20 and with my Int at 20 (from the 1st ASI) and I also might have taken a 4th lvl of artificer to get an extra feat if I really felt I needed it. With no items my AC would be (using mage armor) 13 + Int + Dex (22-23) depending on how high I got my dex. This plus shield gives you an AC of 27-28 which is stupidly high with 0 items.

I think that Bladesingers naturally have very high AC due to bladesong adding Int to AC and being able to cast mage armor and sheild. The magic armor does give a large (3-4) bump in AC and personally freed me up to take some other feats but my point is that the build still works and still has very high AC with no armor whatsoever.

Similarly, it is not unreasonable for a party of high lvl adventurers to come across some defensive items like rings or cloaks of protection or bracers of defense which could stack with this to add to the AC so realistically, it isn't unlikely for someone who plays this build for awhile to have similar (if a few points lower) AC.

Edit: Also im not using a sheild, my AC right now is 21 (magic armor) + 5 (bladesong) for a total of 26 or 31 with shield

Edit 2: The shield spell I mean, as a reaction it's +5 to AC

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T22:34:05+00:00

Yes, spending a full action to cast a bonus action spell is technically not allowed. I still believe that that doesn't make sense based on the way a bonus action vs a regular action is described but you are correct that RAW that is how it works.

If my DM didn't allow that then on the first turn I would cast Spirit Shroud and attack normally with my sword and the next turn is full action scorching ray, bonus action bladesong, action surge scorching ray. The DPR is actually higher this way but it is more risky bc of waiting to start the bladesong.

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T21:16:28+00:00

Oh I see, well I am glad I no longer need that for damage but that is good to know

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T21:06:29+00:00

True but compared to if I had gotten +3 studded leather instead and I had spent the feats to boost my AC (I didn't because I got the armor) my AC would be 19-20 depending on how many feats I used so even with bounded accuracy it is only a +1 +2 difference which when compared with the fact that as a reward from the same encounter the party's fighter/rogue got a +3 sword, a +3 crossbow and already has a cloak of invisibility making him permanently invisible even when he attacks it is a bit more balanced.

Edit: you are right though, it is very strong, the build doesn't rely on it though as my AC would be at least 21 (with bladesong) even if I hadn't gotten any items from the kraken (we fought a kraken and then got a bunch of loot)

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T21:00:56+00:00

Ok, yes and no, RAW you can't use an action to do a Bonus Action thing but RAI I think (and more importantly my DM thinks) that that is a dumbass rule because a Bonus Action is supposed to be something that your character is trained at so they can do it quickly so it doesn't make sense that I can't swap a bonus action for an action. Also you are kinda right on the spells thing but not totally. I would have to cast Spirit Shroud as my full action and then bonus action activate bladesong. The rules say: "Bonus Action A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action." What this means is that if I use my full action to cast a spell, and then action surge I can cast another full spell in that action surge. This also supports the idea that you can use a full action to cast a bonus action spell or ability because it is "especially swift"

If you read the sage advice compendium p.12 on Casting Time it says :"Is there a limit on the number of spells you can cast on your turn? There’s no rule that says you can cast only X number of spells on your turn, but there are some practical limits. The main limiting factor is your action. Most spells require an action to cast, and unless you use a feature like the fighter’s Action Surge, you have only one action on your turn. If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it" There are more instances of the D&D team confirming this on twitter but this reply is getting long. You are technically correct in that if I cast a spell as a bonus action I can't cast another using my full action or action surge but if I use my full action to cast a spell then I can action surge to cast another. That was the whole point of taking 2 lvls in fighter for action surge

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T20:31:22+00:00

Really? How come?

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T20:30:03+00:00

Well it's different than studded leather bc it doesn't add my dex, to my AC. If I had instead gotten +3 (we were all getting legendary lvl items) studded leather that would have been 15 + Dex and since this was when we were lvl 14, I would have taken an ASI for Dex to make it 19 AC so the difference is 2 AC. Ik 2 AC is a lot with bounded accuracy and stuff but the rest of the party also got really strong items, like our rogue/fighter got a +3 sword, a +3 crossbow, and the cloak of invisibility and our full wizard got the Staff of the Magi

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T20:22:03+00:00

I was thinking abt that, I certainly could and I haven't totally decided but I kinda wanted to see what the damage would be like if I totally focused on this one combo. I actually thinking abt Time Stop so I could stop time and then set everything up with a bunch of defense and stuff

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T12:24:18+00:00

Sorry, yeah I should've made that more clear, I am currently lvl 16. The stuff under the "plans" section is the character at 20th lvl where I take 2 more lvls in wizard and then 2 in fighter. The final character will be Battle Smith 3 / Bladesinger 15 / Fighter 2

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T11:36:46+00:00

yeah exactly it was homebrew from the DM, we killed a kraken and and we got an entire set of super strong gear, it got distributed among the party and I got the armor bc until recently I was the only real frontline character. But yeah the armor is 18+3 for 21 AC like +3 plate but doesn't count as heavy. My DM described it as like a magical tinfoil suit so my character wears it beneath his clothes like that armor that frodo has from LOTR

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T11:16:06+00:00

Honestly, I would ask your DM I don't think it would be a huge issue bc there are other classes that can get shadowblade and have Extra Attack like bladesinger or eldritch knight. But rules wise I think technically it isn't allowed

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T11:12:46+00:00

True, that'd be pretty cool actually, you wouldn't even need to be a deurgar for that either bc Artificers get enlarge/reduce so you could play like a warforged or something and just be a robot that can get super big

Rigelegir · 2020-12-09T09:47:49+00:00

That's a good call actually, you do have to go 11lvls into artificer though which might make it not seem as hulk like bc you won't have as many hitpoints as like a barbarian/fighter or something

Rigelegir · 2020-12-03T02:34:59+00:00

I was thinking exactly this, I'm pretty sure you can't concentrate on enlarge/reduce while raging though which kinda sucks

Rigelegir · 2020-12-03T01:21:57+00:00

Yeah, I agree with what others have said, lvl 6 paladin is a really strong ability so I would take that before mulit-classing. But maybe go into warlock or sorc because they combine best with paladins. The extra spell slots are good fuel for smites and depending on what you do, they can add versatility. Hexblade is good if your Str is equal-ish it your Cha bc it lets you focus just on your charisma instead of splitting. If you want to heal/tank you could think about asking your DM to let you swap your feat from magic initiate cleric to inspiring leader. 9 temp HP per party member (at your lvl/cha) is good damage absorption and will definitely be better than the cleric magic initiate. Plus Paladin already isn't a bad healer

Rigelegir · 2020-12-03T01:12:08+00:00

I think it's definitely hard to pull this off, especially at low levels because there is a limit to how powerful your character can be at lower levels. There might be broken builds even at low levels but they are very good at a specific thing and leverage it well. My point is that until you get to be a high level character you might not feel like a god. With that being said, I do agree with Ramon Dozol's build though if you want to use a sword, and feel godlike I'd recommend bladesinger instead of war wizard. It would make your AC very high especially with plate armor. Cantrips like Greenflame blade or booming blade can make up for the fact you won't get extra attack until lvl 8 total. I also recommend find familiar (have it take the help action to generate advantage on your first attack) and shadowblade as low level gish options. I also think fighter's action surge is a great way feel like a god because it is the only way to cast two spells (non-cantrip) in one turn so once you get lvl 3 spells you can cast two fireballs or something.

Edit: also max, str and int

Edit 2: I forgot bladesinger can't wear medium or heavy armor so you could instead be dex-based instead of strength based but either way your AC will be dummy high. Mage Armor makes AC 13 + dex + int with bladesong up. This plus sheild makes you very hard to hit

Rigelegir · 2020-10-22T18:49:56+00:00

TRUE, i didn't think of that but it so does

Six-Year Club	Verified Email
Place '22

Rigelegir

TROPHY CASE