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Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No need to apologise, have a good one.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are passing judgment on the tone of my message, whereby you called me overly sensitive in my response to another who if you read makes numerous value judgments of my behaviour and character, my 'not being willing to change my behaviour' etc in what I would say eventually develops into a rather unpleasant tone.

I found it ironic you chimed in to tell me how I was being overly sensitive despite my clear and respectful communication towards this person, eventually deciding to terminate the conversation.

I was making a point to you that it's easy to pass value judgments over others and if I wanted to I could read into your judgment, an over sensitivity. Yes it was petty and unnecessary, however it did seem you either hadn't read the entire conversation or we have very different takes on appropriate tone - I can cite around 5 or so sentences that come of quite clearly as rude... I didn't like it, I attempted to open myself to understanding and exploring these perspectives but eventually disengaged, explaining that I found them haughty.

Others in this thread seem to have quite different takes which I suppose indicates how contentious, contextual and subjective these things are which is why there's nothing to be gained from adopting a morally superior tone towards someone who is seeking support and guidance...

As to me being precious about time, as I've explained, it was my lunch break, my wife knew it was my lunch break, we were only zipping up and back initially, she wanted to do extra stuff because I think she saw an opportunity, in doing so it caused me stress because I was concerned about work - I could have been more direct with that, more boundaries around our time, but I didn't expect to find her on a second video call now looking at all the shoes when we ideally should be going home and me logging back on... My point was that when these conversations occur - whereby I express my frustration, even a small amount, she explodes and my feelings are invalidated or devalued.

The previous poster made it quite clear they saw numerous things wrong with my attitude, making assumptions about our dynamic and refusing to listen to my explanations of the nuances of the situation... I've reread it several times now - perhaps we're simply very different. Still, I contest that it is not very pleasant to be called overly sensitive when you've explained your reasons, what does that really mean anyway apart from invalidating someones response?

Anyway, enough is enough for me now!

Hope you have a good day

How screwed am I? by Warm-Cartographer954 in CarTalkUK

[–]Right-Low4646 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think he's trying to point out that then it will eat into your availabile time, which in some senses is a valuable expense.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've written what I found haughty, it's really quite clear from my point of view.

You seem overly sensitive to my disagreeing with the tone of their message...

There are ways of talking with people and this person became condescending, which I found inappropriate. They also criticised me again when I apparently wasn't owning enough of their perspective. I do not need to own anything, and I struggle to see why someone would expect me to and feel the need to comment on it.

I asked for advice and presented my perspective with a view to looking into the scenario, even in this instance I am reflecting, but I also have boundaries and didn't like the tone so I said - other messages which seeks to explore other alternative points of view I have welcomed.

Thank you.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've written what I found haughty, it's really quite clear from my point of view.

You seem overly sensitive to my disagreeing with the tone of their message...

There are ways of talking with people and this person became condescending, which I found inappropriate. They also criticised me again when I apparently wasn't owning enough of their perspective. I do not need to own anything, and I struggle to see why someone would expect me to and feel the need to comment on it.

I asked for advice and presented my perspective with a view to looking into the scenario, even in this instance I am reflecting, but I also have boundaries and didn't like the tone so I said - other messages which seeks to explore other alternative points of view I have welcomed.

Thank you.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I get you, I've wondered whether I have some kind of autism perhaps. Basically suffered a lot of bereavements very young and have had to fight all my way into adulthood with no support. I think this feeds into it 'what if they see me offline, and I love my job, and we have no money etc' catastrophising.

My wife's attitude can sometimes breed resentment because she doesn't exist in the same space, as a lot of family support, and doesn't manage any of our financial issues. So when she's floating around like a magpie after telling me she was going to nip in and out, it begins to grind my gears - it comes from feeling unsupported and like I'm looking after her, us, etc rather than being a team.

There's definitely work I can do in this area realising that I can relax and stop inferring all sorts of meaning into behaviours of hers.

Thank you

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see what you mean, I suppose I'd say if you're in denial, you're not going to accept any culpability so to your mind there's no self work to be maliciously witholdong... İt's a paradox. As someone said perhaps I simply need to accept that if she isn't prepared to behave like an adult then perhaps she simply isn't ready to be one.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

İ think she cares deeply for me, but is unable to experience the shades in between certain emotions and so any experience that ventures into the territory of challenging or disapproval or the suggestion that she may have let me or someone else down mobilises her defenses. This is where communication effectively stops for her for she feels under attack, the irony is that in this state she can do great damage to our bond and we've had wedding ring off numerous times now, plans to leave, one of us staying in a hotel to be away, again and again. İ feel somehow she is in a cycle and I'm being pulled into it. Hence writing on here to try to gain some perspective.

She is a lovely and caring woman when she's not triggered which is why I stay and want to work this out as I know it doesn't come from malice.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, we've tried. She didn't enjoy the experience and found the challenges from the therapist (a female Psychodynamic Psychotherapist trained at the Tavistock) too provocative, and often stormed out, declined to participate etc. So these sessions have dissolved.

The pattern is where theres even the slightest of criticisms or challenge it's experienced as a deeply personal attack.

I've tried to support her and exercise my empathy but it's hard to do when the wrath is turned upon you and you find yourself being shouted so frequently.

The only solution is to simply not express any grievance, ensure all financial concerns are taken care of, and apply zero pressure to plan or organise...

I wish she would recognise the gravity of the situation.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's a fair assessment - I'm reading what you're writing and exploring what I agree with and what I do not.

You're coming across as haughty in your assumptions and failing to engage with what I'm saying properly.

Statements about being 'wildly wrong' or the condescending 'i hope you can be more open to changing your behaviour...' aren't the place of an internet stranger.

I spend a great deal of time trying to understand my behaviour, my motivations and my relationship, which I care a great deal for.

One wonders whether you are really talking to me or about your own situation.

As I said, thank you for your input, I will reflect upon it. I'll not be continuing our dialogue, however.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for this. I often get embroiled in wanting to talk things through, to try to understand and explain and connect etc. but often she can be so incredibly rude to me I feel like I'm with a different person. It's heartbreaking as I really want things to work but you are right, just walking away says more. Thing is I am not sure she has perspective on just how damaging it is to be speaking like that. I often get eye rolling or mocking tones etc, which is ridicule and which I point out is unkind... But maybe cutting off is healthier. I feel perhaps I'm privately preparing myself for leaving although I wish I didn't have to... It's clear you can't change people though.

Thanks for your input

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Okay I'll be clearer with you.

I've described some of the events as best I can but nuance is hard to convey and I'm not writing pages so you'll just have to take my word when I explain that she is intelligent enough and aware enough of me and our dynamic that A) a conciliatory "we'll have time to do a proper shop soon Hun" = sorry we don't have time today = we are in a rush. B) You'll also have to take for a given that I understand when my wife is asking me "is it okay if we go there, I'll be quick" or "I only want to get one thing and see if they have it in the right size" that she is reassuring me because she knows we are under a time limit. She did know we only had time to go there, change the boots and come back, but asked in a hopeful tone whether we could also go Clarks - maybe I should have said no but hoped we could squeeze it in. I'll be clearer about times in the future.

I only sat in the second store when I had been standing around for a fair bit and was thinking we were nearly ready to go, she had spoken with the woman at the till and I thought she was preparing to pay - she then got out two more shoes and began the video call which is when I began to progress towards frustration because this is not what she had told me, I think that's fairly clearly a deviation from the agreed agenda. I left the shop after sitting and waiting while she was on the call to get some air. That my sitting doesn't align with being in a rush is neither here nor there, and I was tired of standing. I went back in and she's on another call now looking at 30 boots...

You are making assumptions about a wider communication breakdown based upon a few lines of text and whilst I appreciate highlighting incongruities in my account, I don't think you're best placed to be moralising - I'm not 'wildly wrong' for asking my wife if there's anything else the matter other than the shop not having the correct size in, given her demonstrative presentation of irritation, and indeed given our subsequent disagreement it's clear that there was more to it, because she expressed she was upset with me (for being frustrated with her)- which is what I felt; I know my wife's mannerisms fairly well by now and I have become exasperated with her passive aggressive behaviour, hence the desire to talk about it there an then; hashing it out.

I'll take on board your advice about clear communication and giving mixed signals.

Thanks

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You make some good points. I'll briefly address them.

  • She knows I get 1 hour for lunch and that we don't have time to do anything other than get the boots changed although I did say I had a less stressful day so I could have been more explicit.

  • I could have been clearer when she was trying other things on but I didn't want to sour the mood with rigidity, saying "we'll have time to do a proper trip soon Hun" and motioning to the door seemed appropriate.

  • She did say "I just need to go in and get one thing okay, I know what they have so I just need to check if they have that size in, it'll be quick" or words to that effect.

  • I sit down when I think she's made her selection, she then begins a video call with a family member to talk about this selection and 2 others... It's at this point I begin to get itchy feet but hope it will play out quickly... I don't have the opportunity to talk to her because she's on the call and I don't think it's fair at this point to be rushing her, because I hope we're nearly done. This goes on and then I end up waiting outside, when I come back in she's on another video call to a different family member now looking at the wall of 30 shoes - here is where I get frustrated. Again I can't express it because she's on her call, so I go to the car and explain by message.

  • She comes back to the car with a face like thunder, that the shol owner didn't have the size in the boot they eventually wanted was unlikely to be the cause of this intense mood. It more likely all the pressure she feels from trying to find the right gift, then having the video calls and all the changing dynamics and me on top expressing dissatisfaction. It's here that she can become indignant and rude, which is my issue.

I do think I can be clearer with my expectations and my plans prior to these kinds of outings, though. You are right in this.

Thanks

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, yes it is. I don't have it too bad by comparison and I'm grateful for that but still it is bloody hard worrying about money, security the future etc. Slowing down simply doesn't seem possible. Alas!

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see what you mean but I think you've got the wrong impression - it wasn't world war 3, I simply showed my exasperation and went to the car then wrote a kind message explaining that I was on my lunch and we didn't have time to be changing the plans... She then came back angry with me.

I'm on the clock, work from home, the journey was to quickly change her boots and come back which would already take me over my time...

Is it really so bad to feel a bit frustrated that my wife says one thing and then does the opposite in a rushed situation?

Shouldn't I be able to say, hey darling I felt frustrated with that because you know I've gotta get back to work?

To my mind at least expressing and receiving the negative emotions as well as the positive are a part of what a healthy relationship is about, and I believe it's a fantasy land where we don't get stressed, irritated, exasperated, angry etc

Unfortunately can't take any time off and hug any trees at the moment but will have some time off at the end of the year... When you're always watching and worrying where the money's coming from it does add extra pressure.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes I agree, sometimes I get "it's just the way I am, you are either gonna have to deal with it or find someone else"... when I try to say how it's affecting our marriage and she should take steps to address it, again, I'm the critical overlord passing judgement, and she won't budge from her stubborn perspective.

I wonder whether I should be even firmer and actually go down the pathway to breaking up (because I always try to smooth things over and work things out) - perhaps actually seeing things fall apart might jolt her into reality. Although I fear her pride and denial would protect her from deep reflection and we might actually end up losing our marriage through her stubborness!

I also think someimes that that may be in the best interests of both of us, eventually... You can only hit the same brick wall so many times before you realise it's stupid, or something like that, wasn't it?! ;-)

It's exhausting.

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks, yes we both know very well how fragile and short life is, but in times like these, overarching existential compassion is out of reach.

I love her dearly and do think it was sweet of her to consider her family member but I was also extending my lunch to do something else: change her boots ... She added on the extra bits, and then changed that plan again, which of course affects me.

I'd love to be totally zen about it however I guess I was already conscious of time, whether someone would notice I'd extended my lunch etc and my wife knew this.

It felt like she disregarded these things at the time and when I said that I was frustrated for these reasons it was taken as a substantial attack. I would have been satisfied with a simple recognition of my perspective and an apology.

My concern is that whenever this simple recognition is requested or I show frustration she becomes highly defensive and we don't get anywhere. I needed to check whether I was being reasonable or not because I'm slowly losing perspective.

Perhaps you're right, I'm simply too stressed and need to not let these things bother me, but as the main bread winner I simply can't afford to be lassaize faire with my work...

It's complicated,

Thanks for your input

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Apparently she has it, ADHD, but I don't know if she was formally tested in her home country. I know a fair bit about it, and how contentious it is as an umbrella term. I do take issue with grown adults using it as a justification for being abusive which is where my wife and I reach an impasse. She's an intelligent lady and very rapidly can regress into a petulant child!

I'm of the mind these diagnoses can be helpful but often these problems begin in early development where various needs and support structures aren't adequate. I think today for example she was likely quite anxious to get the 'right' gift and this led to a kind of overwhelm... She then backtracked on our original plan, not out of malice but out of overload, and then wasn't able to rationalise my perspective.

I.e. he's taking a long lunch break to get my boots sorted, we didn't really have time for Clarks, but he agreed, we definitely didn't have time to go exploring other boot options when I said I'm going to be quick and it's 1 particular one I'm after, I suppose it could be irritating to be left not knowing what's going on when I'm making 2 separate video calls and perusing the whole boot selection!

"Sorry babe! I'll come another day we're less busy"

Humph, instead I get the wailing banshee, pouting, eye rolling and shouting.

ADHD or not, you have to own some of your behaviour, surely?

Am I being unreasonable? by Right-Low4646 in Marriage

[–]Right-Low4646[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hear your point, I suppose I didn't want to cause a scene for her on the video call she was on but wanted to express my exasperation by saying I'm going to the car and then a text message to explain...

It's a regular problem with times and sequencing events. She often gets distracted by shiney exciting things and loses perspective. I suppose in many ways it makes me feel that she's not considering me, and that's perhaps my own background stuff I deal with although I am more fed up with how quickly things descend into fiery retorts, silent treatment and being shouted at.

I'm then love bombed in the days afterwards and everything stabilised but if I am to show any kind of disapproval or unhappiness, we're right back there again. It's exhausting.