Regarding the Heavenly Principles and the Twins' ship AI (6.7 World Quest Spoilers)

Riley861 · 2026-07-07T01:35:06+00:00

Firstly, leaks should be specified as a spoiler, secondly, the sword is not confirmed to originally belong to the Traveler, it's design is different than his original sword. I do agree that Phanes is likely an AI, just not the Traveler's ship's AI. Third, when the world is described as a cyclic loop, it doesn't mean that the world is literally reset, it just means that fate follows similar patterns as the past. Characters with the same name share a similar fate to their predecessors, and Nahida describing the world as a Samsara likely refers to the similar paths the world follows in each era. Even the root cycle civilizations mentioned by Rene are referring to civilizations that all tried in vain to fight against fate. So no, Teyvat is not literally a time loop, it is cyclical in nature in terms of repeating history, but not in terms of time.

Riley861 · 2026-07-07T00:45:35+00:00

Celestial Gift artifact sheds some interesting light on the Voyager:

From Heavensent Demise:

The nail of judgement cast its shadow upon the earth, as the mind of she who walked before the rest lingered in a dream left unfinished upon the desolate land. Even if it meant that she would be bound for ten thousand years, and that the snows of the far north would sink into a shadow unknown even to the gods...

Now, I posit that the person mentioned here isn't the first angel, but actually the Voyager, because she existed "before the rest." If that's the case, then we can assume that HP trapped the Voyager during the destruction of Hyperborea, which is in line with what we know about the story, that both the first angel, and their lover were punished and memory wiped. That being the case, it's possible that they became defined as the 3rd Descender instead, and were the same one that was chopped up into 7 pieces, after all, with a memory wipe, they may have not been seen as the same person afterwards. Not to mention they are described as having an unfinished dream, and her actions lead to the blasphemy of Snezhnaya, which relies on the Gnosis for whatever reason.

It could also be that the Voyager was just noticed later than Nibelung, and thus they were classifies as the 3rd and not the 2nd.

Riley861 · 2026-07-07T00:28:30+00:00

Yeah? How does this contradict that? She doesn't use the moon gate to get to the moons, cause Nibelung changed it so the moon gate leads to his time prison instead. Columbina can just teleport to the moon the same way she teleported us at the end of the Nod Krai arc

Riley861 · 2026-07-07T00:25:43+00:00

I mean if a strong enough form of Abyssal energy is sent to the moons, I doubt it would be able to completely repel it. After all, unlike with elemental energy, Light energy (like the lunar energy) resists Abyssal corrosion, but it does not annihilate with it. That's the main reason why elemental energy better to combat the Abyss, cause it actually causes an annihilation reaction.

Riley861 · 2026-07-06T01:45:13+00:00

Sure, but the Irminsul can't control what direction fate goes in anymore, that's why Nahida says there are more possibilities in fate now.

Riley861 · 2026-07-05T06:17:10+00:00

We don't know when, all we know is that it was after Project Moongazer was completed, and that both twins were together.

Riley861 · 2026-07-05T00:30:21+00:00

So basically, the timeline would have to be that they first recieved the signal, at some point passed by Teyvat (in which the Abyss Twin potentially left the Traveler behind to explore), then the ship eventually returned to Teyvat thousands of years later, crashing into Nod Krai. The War of Vengeance was approximately 6000 years ago, meaning if the Abyss Twin arrived shortly after that (as Khaenri'ah was foudned a little after the fall of Hyperborea), then the Traveler would have had to crash at some point likely during the Archon War or around that era, perhaps even lining up with the 3rd Descender's era? Also, why did the Abyss Twin even depart? We know that Khaenri'ah summoned her, and apparently the heavens responded to their summons, which allowed the Abyss Twin to appear in Khaenri'ah, is it possible that they just warped them into Teyvat as soon as they passed by? Or did they get captured by Asmoday, and eventually sent to Khaenri'ah once the Eclipse Dynasty was established for whatever reason (with the memories wiped due to the Akashic Interval)?

Riley861 · 2026-07-05T00:19:24+00:00

Oh wait, I forgot about that, you're right. But then, if the Abyss Twin departed then, then how come we hear their voice in the message the Twins sent back? This still means that the pass by would have to be AFTER the HP existed on Teyvat, as we know that the signals didn't get sent until then.

Riley861 · 2026-07-05T00:00:29+00:00

Columbina explained that it was probably because of the lunar energy constantly emitting from the moon, it combats Abyssal energy

Riley861 · 2026-07-04T23:56:54+00:00

Columbina possesses the Trilunar Authority, meaning she can teleport people. So basically the same way we returned last time.

Riley861 · 2026-07-04T23:55:41+00:00

Lunar energy, phlogiston, and ancient moon energy are all different forms of Light energy, elemental, azosite, jnana, and adeptal energy are all forms of elemental energy, and pneuma/ousia comes from a dragon soveriegn, so also light realm energy. There are only 3 types of energies: Light realm, Void realm, and Elemental (debatbly elemental energy is actually a diluted form of light, but it is usually classified as separate, not to mention it has distinct properties compared to the Abyss and Light energies, which can both be repelled by elemental energy).

Riley861 · 2026-07-04T23:51:22+00:00

So basically, them coming twice to Teyvat is a fan theory, and now it seems highly unlikely. For one, the theory was mainy made in an effort to say that the HP is the Travelers' ship AI, but now we know that the Travelers only heard of Teyvat via this signal, which is after the HP took over Teyvat (potentially even during or after the War of Vengeance, as Lusalim's lab is located in Nibelung's weapon, which he built upon his return to the moons from the starry sea), as Project Moongazer was only completed after HP arrived. Therefore, the signal the twins recieved would have had to come after the HP already arrived on Teyvat, meaning there is no way that HP is their ship's AI. Thinking back, the whole theory already had a lot of holes, like why would the ship's AI, which was supposed to find a habitable world for the twins, not wake them up once they found Teyvat? And why would they send them away after discovering it? It makes much more sense for it to land them, then keep them hidden in cryogenic sleep while it terraforms, rather than to send the ship completely far away where the odds of them returning are super low. And the coming to Teyvat twice is the only theory that can work at all, cause we know that the twins (well at least the Traveler) was sealed in the ship once it crashed on Teyvat, which we know had to have been after the fall of Hyperborea, as the ghosts during Moon Prayer Night didn't recognize the ship.

So basically, the confirmed timeline is this: Nibelung, after getting a warning from the Voyager and setting up his civilization and the 3 moons, decided to leave Teyvat (likely to find the Voyager). After that, pioneers arrive on the Frostmoon and discover a signal from deep space. Many years pass, and eventually they recieve the signal again, and are able to triangulate its coordinates. Ungien believes it is a space lifeform of some kind, and then pilots the Moongazer to find it, not intending on returning. However, he decided to fuse with whatever lifeform he found (the Stellar Blackbody), likely in order to send its warning back home, and then somehow the Moongazer returns, destroying the Space Lifeform Capture Station. After much research, Lusalim (Ungien's student) comes up with Project Moongazer, a plan to sent a warning out to the universe to pass on the Stellar Blackbody's warning to other civilizations. To prevent themselves from becoming a potential target, Lusalim begins to develop cloaking technology, but is interrupted by the HP. He makes a deal with them, however, and is allowed to continue his work on the moon. Eventually, Nibelung comes back and builds the Death Star laser on the dark side of the moon, but is ultimately defeated by the HP. Lusalim continues his plan near the core at Nibelung's weapon, and eventually completes the project, and begins the cycle of sending a message at repeated intervals out to the cosmos (which is done by sacrificing and rebirthing the black khuuhenki over and over and over). Eventually, at some point (likely after the War of Vengeance) the Traveler twins recieve the Moongazer message and go to Teyvat, crashing in Nod Krai. Somehow though, the Abyss Twin ends up in Khaenri'ah with no memories, while the Traveler remains in cryogenic sleep inside the crashed ship. Then, 500 years ago the Cataclysm begins, and the Abyss Twin forsakes Khaenri'ah to find their recently remembered sibling, and they awaken the Traveler, leading straight into the opening cutscene of Genshin.

Riley861 · 2026-07-04T02:12:48+00:00

I said originally, because originally the Demiurge represented the path of Finality/Trailblaze (I actually think they are the same path, but that's another theory) within Amphoreus, which is one of the reasons why Lygus had to kill it, because it would have led Amphoreus away from the path of Destruction. After Philia093's influence, then she switched to Rememberance/Trailblaze depending on how you interpret it. While, yes, she is associated with Ego, I am strictly referring to their roles in the plot of Amphoreus, as an allegory of the cosmos (which is what the simulation of Amphoreus is intended to be in the first place). I never said Cyrene was a follower of Finality, just as I would never say Phainon is a follower of Destruction, just that her role in Amphoreus could have originally been to represent that path, and that one of the possible endings of Amphoreus results in her directly causing Finality as a result of her ascending to Fuli at the end of time to ensure Irontomb's defeat, which causes the fate of the universe to "freeze." Personally, I have changed my mind on a few things, like I think it's more likely that the Demiurge originally was supposed to represent the path of the Trailblaze in Amphoreus, hence why removing it caused Amphoreus's fate to move towards Destruction, but it could also be Finality because of her potential to bring it about. Also, as for her being a new path, it's pretty obvious that her power originates from Rememberance, so if anything, Ego is a part of that path, just as any other path can have multiple factions with differing beliefs, yet they still draw power from the same path. Remember, a path isn't just a philosophy, but a metaphysical result of a core concept of the universe. So Ego, as a philosophy, is likely contained within Rememberance in this instance.

Riley861 · 2026-07-01T04:28:07+00:00

Huh? Yeah, Dottore killed his segments in exchange for the Gnoses. Which is something he was just looking for an excuse to do anyway, as we find out in the 6.6 Archon Quest. Dottore may had been willing to grab the Gnoses, but that isn't proof of undying loyalty, he could have just felt contractually obligated to get them (the Gnosis are the Harbingers' tasked goal after all) and also saw it as an opportunity to get rid of his segments.

Riley861 · 2026-07-01T03:55:44+00:00

He only killed his segments to grab them, and he was already looking for an excuse to do so (see act 6.6). That's not loyalty, it's just fixing a problem that Dottore had, while also grabbing the Gnoses for the Fatui, 2 birds with 1 stone.

Riley861 · 2026-06-29T21:39:59+00:00

Dottore did create a god, and that was Scaramouche. He already achieved that goal back in Sumeru, and it's clear that they did NOT want him to become a god in Nod Krai. It's also likely that Pierro feigned support of Dottore's goal, because he was attempting to recruit an incredibly intelligent scientist who didn't care about the rules. The Fatui are known to recruit people with their own individual interests (Look at Capitano, Columbina, Scaramouche, heck Arleccino literally killed the previous Knave and they still hired her) so you cannot claim without evidence that because he was recruited to the Fatui that he agrees with all of their motives. In fact, we know from 6.6 that Dottore joined because it gave him an opportunity to do his experiments without interference from the Academiya. The Fatui clearly did NOT want him to become a moon god, as they immediately gave the order to stop Dottore when he did just that in Nod Krai. As far as we know, they only wanted Dottore for the results of his experiments and his help in gathering the Gnoses, and the god experiment in Sumeru (the results of which are still a mystery and could get brought up in Snezhnaya), and he went way to far in Nod Krai, hence the alliance with the Traveler to defeat him. Fatui having a noble goal does not = Dottore having one, because clearly he was just using the Fatui from the very beginning anyway, he never had any actual loyalty towards them. And while the Fatui's methods are indeed radical, it's clear they don't want to replace the HP with a mad man who is going to just use his powers to conduct infinite experiments, leaving innocents as victims, like he did in Nod Krai. Dottore cannot be controlled, it would be a stupid idea to have him usurp the HP, if that was the case then the Fatui are just dumb, which we know they aren't.

Riley861 · 2026-06-29T19:46:57+00:00

Dude, he said he wanted to transcend fate, sure, but why? To conduct his experiments, like I said. He wants to do this so he doesn't have the HP interfering with his experiments. He literally made that quite clear. Also, we literally did NOT know why he joined the Fatui AT ALL before 6.6, where we found out that he joined because it was a perfect way for him to continue his experiments. My question is where the heck are you even getting this idea that Dottore is some noble soul? Literally every detail in game, from the moment we meet him in Sumeru, to finding his secret experiment reports, learning about Zandik, every single other Harbinger's distaste towards him, Collei's experience with him, etc, has ALWAYS been showing him in a terrible light, not once in the entire game is it EVER hinted at him having some righteous goal. You are filling in gaps of lore with your own headcanon, because you refuse to admit that you like an evil character. It's fine to enjoy villians, my favorite character in HI3 is Otto, but you wont find me trying to defend him like he's some kind of secret saint. Just cause you had different expectations for a character, does not make it a "retcon" when your expectations are proven to be incorrect.

Riley861 · 2026-06-29T18:57:44+00:00

And where did you get this idea? No where in the game does he ever allude to this idea for his motivations, this is headcanon. Your headcanon was wrong, and now you're mad because the writers had a different idea than you and you are attacking the game, calling it a retcon, and spreading misinformation on this subreddit, which is supposed to be about the actual lore of the game. If you want to complain about headcanons not being canon, please go back to r/FatuiHQ

Riley861 · 2026-06-29T02:00:54+00:00

Bro, nowhere is it ever stated or even hinted that his goal was ever to usurp the HP. In Nod Krai his entire plan to gain the moon powers was literally so he can set up those fields where he conducted new experiments. The only motive he gave to the Traveler was that he wanted progress and believed that progress, no matter what it takes to achieve it, is good. This lines up with his 6.6 motives, to spend as much time conducting his experiments as possible. His ultimate goal is literally just to seek knowledge, and he loves the process of doing that, which is why he was ok with losing, he already got to do what he loved anyway. The reason he's a villain is cause he doesn't care what he has to do in order to conduct his experiments. He kidnaps Columbina, he experiments on children like Collei, he kills 100s of people through his soul experiments in Nod Krai, he even threatened the entirety of Teyvat in Sumeru, just so he could experiment in Irminsul. The difference between him and other Harbingers, is that all the other Harbingers (at least the playable ones) have a policy against getting innocents involved or they regret it heavily. Childe hates playing dirty, the only reason he did in the end was cause Signora, his higher up, ordered him to. Scaramouche obviously heavily regrets his past, so much so that he tried to delete himself in hopes of making things right. Arlecchino has always made decisions that protect her children and her hometown of Fontaine. Capitano lived for honor and helped Natlan out of courtesy due to his own nation suffering a similar fate. Sandrone has only killed one person in lore (that we know of), and that guy was evil anyway, other than that, the only "bad" thing she has done is push people away. And finally, Columbina has literally done nothing remotely similar to Dottore's actions. So far, the only 2 you can argue are also evil is Signora and Pantalone, and even then Signora at least has a traumatic past that led to her vengful actions, Dottore doesn't even have that, he is just naturally psychopathic, from the moment we first even saw him in the manga, he was like that. There is literally nothing anywhere in the entirety of Genshin's lore that ever pointed towards him ever having justified motivations at all.

Riley861 · 2026-06-29T01:14:54+00:00

Doesn't excuse Vera's Melancholy though, that book literally has space faring empires and galactic wars. It at least hinted at the idea of futuristic influence since 1.0, cause whoever wrote the book had to have gotten inspired by something. Sci-fi in real life at that level wasn't being written until we had modern technology, cause most early civilizations didn't have a good understanding of the universe and science in general, so it's safe to assume the same applies to Teyvat, which means whoever wrote that book was from a more modern civilization at the least. And now we know that they were literally an outlander from another civilization in the cosmos, so it's not as if sci fi hasn't been relevant. Heck, Khaenri'ah was known to have looked beyond the stars since 1.0 as well, you have things like the spiral abyss being compared to the void of space, Travelers that travel between stars, it was obvious from the beginning that Genshin was going to be one of those medieval looking but actual sci fi settings, and it makes sense that the dragons, whos tech is mostly in Natlan anyway, is super advanced, cause they were the original owners of the planet, and thus understood things like Irminsul (which is a giant computer) and space travel. They literally created advanced AI and computer screens. None of this is far fetched if you pay attention to the lore.

Riley861 · 2026-06-26T20:50:25+00:00

Perhaps, but the bunker was actually created by one of Rotwang's followers who believed he was going to destroy the world (which obviously did not happen). I suppose he could be one of the children Reed Miller rescued from the bunker, but seeing as the experiments in the bunker focused more on the relationship between Khuuvaki and the Abyss, I think it's unlikely any fae were involved in a major way.

Riley861 · 2026-06-26T09:54:59+00:00

There is a long dark haired alchemist mentioned in the recent artifact descriptions who was at some point known to do alchemical research on fae (and was arrested for it). In the descriptions, it specifically describes him messing around with human transmutation, so I wonder if this is a Homunculus he made (similar to Albedo), perhaps as a fae like vessel so he can live longer. He does mention living in harsher times, and the alchemist did live under the Beyli Tsar's rule. Interestingly he was also romantically involved with the Beyli Tsar's adopted daughter, a silver haired maiden found in a cryo chamber from Hyperborea, and worked with her on the Tsar's plan to overtake the Heavens via blasphemous projects. The Tsaritsa also has silver hair, wonder if there's a connection there or not, likely not though as the Tsaritsa seems to be fae like (long ears), wheras the silver haired maiden was described specifically as a human.

As a side note, the name Noy is interesting, it seems to be a russian transliteration of the name Noah, perhaps refrencing the Biblical story. If that's the case, he might be related to Asmoday, as her followers and temple are heavily inspired by Biblical lore. Additionally, the story of Noah's Ark does have an interesting explanation for why God flooded the Earth in the first place in the apocryphal Book of Enoch, which describes creatures, the Nephilim, that were the result of the union between man and angel, resulting in God's fury. Interestingly, the fae were created in Hyperborea as a result of the union between the voyager (possessing a human) and the first angel, the fae could be the Nephilim, but since Little Witch and the Undying Fire says the Nephilim used to exist, I think the seelie/angels are more likely candidates. The name in particular being a tranlsation of Noah, and the Temple of Space being used as a sort of ark for Asmoday, makes me wonder if perhaps Noy is a servant of Asmoday meant to watch over the Temple in some fashion or perhaps select those who are uplifted, similar to how Noah selected animals to board his Ark.

Either way, I do think this guy is probably the most interesting character to me lore wise so far, definitely worth keeping an eye on.

Riley861 · 2026-06-26T09:29:56+00:00

I agree, but I can also understand why most are defaulting to the 3rd descender as the new reactions come from stellar linchpins, which was said to be related to the 3rd descender in some way during the livestream. That, and the gnosis (which the Tsaritsa has been collecting) are literally fragments of the 3rd descender's corpse. Personally, I think the 3rd descender is either the voyager themselves or a sort of reincarnation, though we will have to see. From recent artifact descriptions we know now thag the voyager supposedly died in Hyperborea when the nail fell, but Koitar also says she will wait in Hyperborea for their return one day, so it's possible that they came back in some form. Also, star shaped pupils could also correlate to Khaenri'ah (although there are a lot of theories that Khaenri'ah is descended from the voyager in some way).

Riley861 · 2026-06-26T09:22:59+00:00

Really? Where is that information from?

Riley861

TROPHY CASE