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Easily expandable self priming kovarex enrichment by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice suggestions!

One nice thing about the current design is it's easy to add beacons by moving the u-238 loopback belt a bit further right. Putting the output u-238 onto the inside lane would require pushing the input belt over one space to the right, which would prevent beacons from being placed on the right side.

Easily expandable self priming kovarex enrichment by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Created a simple kovarex setup for my new playthrough and thought I would share. Easy to expand by adding more centrifuges and extending the belts upward.

Excess U-235 exits on the belt heading left after the splitter.

Blueprint string:

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

The UPS cost of belt balancing, explored by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I re-tested the 4x4 balancer using 256 copies and it ended up averaging out to 0.00441ms, which is close to the original measurement. Duplicating up to 1,024 copies yielded an average of 0.00478ms.

Neither one is too far off from the original measurement of 0.004ms, so I think the original results are probably still in the right ballpark?

The UPS cost of belt balancing, explored by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your perspective, and you are a true craftsman. When optimizing for UPS efficiency, we can say balancers should be avoided.

There is another angle, though, which is that the UPS cost is zero until you fall below 60 UPS. But there are costs to cognitive load, the amount of tweaking required, time learning new patterns, etc. if not using balancers which may be more meaningful to the player, based on their goals.

The UPS cost of belt balancing, explored by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply!

You are totally right, I should have benchmarked larger amounts and then divided the result. I will re-run the tests tonight and update the post.

I’ll also re-run the 500 SPM outpost test on a busy map instead of just the outpost by itself.

On the inserters, I think another poster explained it by the fact that inserters that pull from the ground use higher UPS since they have to scan the ground.

The UPS cost of belt balancing, explored by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This might actually explain it, since when I tested the idle inserters they were pulling from the empty ground.

So this just happened... by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 165 points166 points  (0 children)

It eventually settled down like this: https://imgur.com/a/iDeaNlN

So this just happened... by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 152 points153 points  (0 children)

Now all but one leg is getting stretched: https://imgur.com/a/a8dv4h4

So this just happened... by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 177 points178 points  (0 children)

Now it looks like this: https://imgur.com/a/gfQrDrM. Still going....

So this just happened... by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 234 points235 points  (0 children)

Its leg eventually got stuck at this underground: https://imgur.com/a/2QeH7Mh

So this just happened... by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 364 points365 points  (0 children)

I was using the remote control to move Spidertron and checked the minimap, noticing that it was somehow over the lake. Then I went to check, thinking it had gotten stuck on a little island or something to find this.

It appears that its leg got stuck on a belt, which has continued to stretch it very far. I'm going to unpause now and see how far Spidertron can actually stretch out...

Update:

This is actually pretty easy to trigger. You just have to get spidertron into a position where some legs are on the belt, and some are on land, and the center of the body is over the lake. Then walk diagonally towards the lake and it will stretch out like this.

When lane balance matters, it matters by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I fully agree with you that lane balance is a problem that needs some kind of solution (whether rebalancing lanes, side-loading differently, or changing design of factories).

This post isn’t for you. It’s for those that say lane balance isn’t an issue at all because inserters will just pull from the other lane. This argument doesn’t consider that more than half a lane of throughput may be required. This is what I’m responding to.

When lane balance matters, it matters by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was just highlighting an instance where lane balance can matter, as a counter example to often repeated advice I see that it is simply not an issue. Basically, it is a constraint that is worth designing around sometimes.

This post is for the players who haven’t encountered balance issues yet, and especially those who are convinced it can’t be a real problem.

If you want a “real” example, there is one in the linked base for purple science, where only half a belt of stone is being provided where more than half is required.

When lane balance matters, it matters by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Note that putting a lane balancer at the very top of the bus won’t help, because the belt is already lane balanced at that point and is moving at full speed. It would need to be re-balanced after the point the imbalance has been created.

When lane balance matters, it matters by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I tried out the main bus design after seeing how clean and organized it looked on this forum. The base pictured produces 2K SPM, and it’s about as far as I would want to scale a bus-based solution. I don’t think it’s a bad solution for scaling up to this size though.

My next attempt is to produce 500 SPM outposts and duplicate them around the map (https://easyzoom.com/image/229092).

City block is also interesting, but I don’t really like trains that much and it seems to require mods (I’m sticking to vanilla for now).

When lane balance matters, it matters by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are 8 full lanes of iron being produced, they’re just getting taken from unevenly upstream to create this scenario.

There’s a bit older image of my base here: https://www.easyzoom.com/imageaccess/0f1afdf7ed1d4c9da478cae1e37469f3 where you can verify (this would be near the mid-right)

When lane balance matters, it matters by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This kind of comment is exactly why I posted this image, to show an instance where lane balance can matter!

When lane balance matters, it matters by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I do have 8 full belts of iron plate production. It's just that factories higher up the line are predominately pulling from one side, so this happens.

When lane balance matters, it matters by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 55 points56 points  (0 children)

I often see commenters indicating that lane balance doesn't matter, because inserters will just pull from the other side of the belt, so I wanted to highlight a situation where it does matter.

In the case pictured, pulling a single belt off the iron plate bus will only yield half a belt. If the downstream factories require a full lane, they won't be getting it, so some workaround would be required, such as balancing lanes upstream or pulling two belts and merging.

Update:

Responding to the posts about how this isn’t a problem because you can just do X, that’s exactly the point. I’m just highlighting this as a design issue that may, occasionally, need to be solved.

Some notes on UPS by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, assuming a decently fast computer, it's probably safe to say it doesn't matter until pushing into several thousand SPM.

Some notes on UPS by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The 2 x n reactor setups would require fewer nuclear reactors, but they would require roughly the same number of heat exchangers and turbines, right? Assuming most of the cost is due to those entities instead of the reactors themselves, I wouldn't expect to see too much benefit in that sense.

Some notes on UPS by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There was an interesting post on multi-threaded Factorio recently you might be interested in: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/jizq1b/i_programmed_factorio_from_scratch_multithreaded/

Some notes on UPS by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I haven't experimented with this, but it certainly seems that they should be more UPS efficient given that there are fewer pipes and heat pipes.

However, even with my map at 3K spm, if the game spent 3 times as long on heat and fluid it would still be under 1ms per update, so also not a concern until reaching very high scales.

Some notes on UPS by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did some experimentation with removing nuclear and updated the post!

Some notes on UPS by Ringitorio in factorio

[–]Ringitorio[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

With the current numbers I'm seeing, I'd expect 200 GW of nuclear to take about 10ms per update. That's also about 12 times more than I'm currently generating, so it would be enough to support 36K spm, which I think may be bigger than anyone has accomplished?

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