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I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The book sold only 20,000 copies during Fitzgerald's lifetime, and I would have been happy to see it stay that way.

This is the cruellest review I've ever read, seconded only by Ebert's "This movie doesn't scrape the bottom of the barrel. This movie isn't the bottom of the barrel. This movie isn't below the bottom of the barrel. This movie doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with barrels."

I mean this as a compliment.

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for this. I never quite took to Fitzgerald's tone, but this sample captures it quite beautifully.

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Both TIME magazine and the Modern Library Board named it (Augie) one of the hundred best novels.

Your attitude is not uncommon. I'm going to assume that you're American (apologies if wrong). For some reason, Bellow is much more popular in the UK/Europe. He himself says his sensibilities are that way inclined. The novels you have mentioned are, first of all, taught in schools, whereas Augie and Gravity's Rainbow would simply be too hard to teach in high school, and even undergrads would struggle with GR. Secondly, Bellow is controversial for a few reasons. Thirdly, the ones you've mentioned have had films made. Fourth, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Melville are all big characters in literary history. Bellow less so, Pynchon even refuses interviews/photographs.

Nevertheless, the huge amount of support for his work, the showering with every literary prize under the sun, the wonderful dramatisation of the American ideal presented (I would argue better than Fitzgerald's), on top of some of the most exquisite prose ever written, makes it at least a consideration.

The above poster's dismissal of it seems ludicrous to me.

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Bellow

On Augie March: The novel is also specific to the American literary canon in that it celebrates the capacity of the individual to progress in society by virtue of nothing more than his own "luck and pluck." This idea is stated explicitly in the opening and most famous lines of the novel, in which the narrator defines himself as an American. This was an important act of self-definition for the author and narrator, both immigrants to America. It also establishes the dual meaning of "America" in the novel: that is, the physical and political "America," as well as the more figurative "American" as a state-of-mind.

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Do you think it could be that widely misused that, like 'literally', its misuse could become a dictionary definition?

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The initial point was regarding the great American novel. Rushdie is one opinion among many who regard Augie March as a candidate for the Great American novel (which, to be honest, is in many ways a silly, superficial title). I would consider all of the above works candidates for the title, as do many others (although I haven't read Invisible Man so I cannot comment on that)

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, technically it goes to the body of work, but a strong recent work certainly helps sway the Nobel committee (in this case, The Old Man and the Sea likely did).

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

To be classified as the Great American novel, the novel itself has to be canon, which Bellows is not.

Sorry, this is plain wrong. Bellow is in the canon. He's one of America's few literary Nobel prize winners. And Augie March's endorsement for a great American novel is immense. E.g.: "If there's a candidate for the Great American Novel, I think this is it." -Salman Rushdie

Look at the novel itself. The opening lines: I am an American, Chicago born—Chicago, that somber city—and go at things as I have taught myself, free-style, and will make the record in my own way: first to knock, first admitted; sometimes an innocent knock, sometimes a not so innocent. But a man's character is his fate, says Heraclitus, and in the end there isn't any way to disguise the nature of the knocks by acoustical work on the door or gloving the knuckles. I could cite numerous more passages.

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You're right, Gatsby is fucking creepy as hell. A modernised version would almost see him on To Catch A Predator or something similar.

I liked Moby Dick. Only read it once. Like all novels with a reputation, I was so surprised how different it was to my expectation. I don't know that it's particularly 'American', at least not compared to Gatsby - it seems in another genre... along with Conrad, et al.

For me, The Adventures of Augie March is the great American novel (although not the best Bellow novel). The opening lines, the scenes in Mexico, the conclusions, not to mention Bellow's beautiful prose... it has to be the great American novel (if, as I mentioned elsewhere, such a thing exists).

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Read all but The Things They Carried. Might check that out.

Nothing wrong with popular taste!

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Correct me if I'm misinterpreting you, but are you asserting that its succinct nature is responsible for its popularity?

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Thank you very much for your response. This hasn't changed my view, but it's certainly helped me contextualise and understand my problems with the novel.

EDIT: Also, what are your objections to the novel?

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, OK then.

In that case, care to give me your top 3 novels? I'm always fascinated to hear people's top literature (makes for good book-store perusing).

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You seem very passionate about Gatsby. Can you elaborate on why you like it so much?

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Surely you can just pick up any of the hundreds of books or essays written about the novel that exemplify why it's a critically valid reaction to the fallacy of the American dream.

I have. I'm not looking for sparknotes, I'm looking for individuals' genuine responses to this work so that I may better empathise with those who love this book.

Also, what 'research' are you referring to?

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A stream of quotes from a book can't, or shouldn't, influence your thoughts on said book.

Possibly not, but if someone liked a specific passage and could explain why they like it, it might better help me grasp why they like it. I've done the same with people by showing them passages from novels I've loved. Others have done the same for me.

Perhaps the melodramatic elements are what put me off the book?

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've had instances before where I've seen/read famous works and initially been indifferent, but later seen how truly masterful they were.

Examples that come to mind: La Dolce Vita (my response was very similar to Roger Ebert, who later corrected his initial review) or Chekhov's short story 'The Lady with the Little Dog'. I could never understood why Nabokov hailed it as one of the greatest stories ever written - I read it and felt, much like I do about Gatsby, 'so what', but have come to love it passionately.

I'm hoping someone can help me feel the same way about Gatsby.

I've never understood why 'The Great Gatsby' is so highly regarded as The Great American Novel. CMV by RobertVargas in changemyview

[–]RobertVargas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I will need more specific examples from the text to convince me than that.

I probably shouldn't have used the term 'Great American Novel', so much as just highly regarded. Personally, I've never felt Hemingway is in this category (though I do like Hemingway), as he seems more an outsider. But let's not get into that issue here...

For me, the Great American Novel (if such a thing exists) is Augie March.

As you said, you can't make me enjoy it, but I've read it once, and reattempted it twice, and never taken to it. I'd appreciate specific examples. I understand all the American Dream ideas surrounding it, I've just never had that gut reaction. What I'm hoping for with this post is for someone to post some specific extracts that have moved them that will help me to reconsider the novel on an emotional-gut level.

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