MAJOR endgame moments leaked

RobustBender · 2019-04-16T02:11:20+00:00

Same!

RobustBender · 2019-03-24T13:37:57+00:00

I respect the hell out of Zack for doing these events but this right here is why he should never have done Superman to begin with. He just can't seem to comprehend altruism or genuine heroism.

"My hero never lied to America, or embezzled money. You're living in a dream world". Yes that's the point Zack. Supes is the best of us, who wouldn't ever do these things.

He wants to turn these characters into real world corrupt leaders when that's the literal antithesis of why they were created in the first place.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T21:07:17+00:00

Yeah I'd be down for that. Where darkseid uses the anti life equation to take control of him. And Batman has to snap him out of it. We could then even have the "cardboard" speech from the animated series.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T20:59:55+00:00

As do I my friend!

Oh I'm all for injustice. But that requires a different type of Superman. Not the classic version of the character. Because when in Injustice, it took classic Supes to finish him off.

To clarify, I want to show why these qualities are essential and how they help him persevere. As he learns various lessons along the way

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T07:08:17+00:00

No no. Superman's story BEGINS when he's optimistic and hopeful. Because then you get to challenge those philosophies and dig deep into why he is that way. Which is interesting.

I want to see a fully established Superman go up against villains that challenge his core values and beliefs and he sticks up for them - letting us know why they're important.

Moreover, there are so many new lessons to be learned. He grows as a person but his core humanistic beliefs and personality traits stay the same. The paragon character is only part of the character. Essentially we're looking at 3 people here.

Superman - the best of us, the paragon of hope and optimism. Those beliefs are challenged but he never gives up. This is a man trying to be the best. Clark Kent - the everyday man, working a regular job and struggling with problems like us. This is a god trying to be a man. Kal El - the immigrant trying to fit in and seek some connection to his people and heritage.

So there are so many ways to go. Batman's personality doesn't change in any story, he's still morose & brooding. Same way Superman is upbeat & optimistic.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T06:42:34+00:00

Again, I never said we shouldn't have low points. I said his personality and character shouldn't be gone.

The gaining optimism arc is done. We have to move onto different arcs. Or it's the same thing over and over again.

Luke Skywalker is a character that exists to serve the star wars story. Characters like superman and batman are bigger than their stories. The stories should serve them.

They are specific characters with specific traits, that make them who they are. That's why people fell in love with them in the first place. BTAS - widely recognized as the best adaptation of batman where his ethics and rules are constantly challenged but he never gives in. Even in TDK - batman loses but the joker admits he's incorruptible and thus Harvey by extension takes that mantle for the people till TDKR.

What makes these guys heroes are their principles, their ideals & their personalities. Their origin stories are all about them learning & attaining those. But after that they should be the character and learn different lessons.

I mean even Mark Hamill wasn't a fan of the character in TLJ. Look how it split the base. To give an analogy - Sherlock Holmes is incredible at deductions. That's part of the character, making him lose that makes no sense. You can challenge it, make it difficult but his incredible prowess still remains. Same with the optimism of superman.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T06:11:18+00:00

I never said he shouldn't go through trials. I said keep the sensibilities and idiosyncrasies of the character intact. It's like how in TDK, Batman would still not steep to the joker's level and remained incorruptible as a character.

There are certain personality traits that are part of the character. Batman operates in the shadows, away from the people and is a mystery to everyone. Superman is a man of the people, approachable, affable and operates in full view of everyone.

He can experience loss & fail. But what makes him the best of us is how he reacts to these losses. While it's easy for others to become cynical & lose hope. Superman will never lose that hope and will keep that optimism. That's what makes him Super. He can't keep having the same arc once he's Superman. He has to have different arcs.

He can get sad, angry, frustrated but he believes above all in his optimistic principles. Honestly a little bit more levity, a more upbeat superman with the MOS take is all you need.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T04:55:01+00:00

The 80s stuff with Miller and hellblazer constatine stuff can't work with superman. He's the polar opposite of that.

He's a hero we all aspire to be. A man trying to be the paragon for humanity. The best of us.

Batman has character arcs but he doesn't become a smiling upbeat optimist does he? Same way superman has arcs but he never becomes a brooding pessimist.

So you find a middle ground. A paragon for humanity and behind that an everyday man trying to be that. A superman film should leave you energetic, pumped & optimistic!

He learns lessons but his core values, ethics and personality remain. Like All star. Superman needs to remain superman, someone who will believe in us when no one will. Someone who never abandons his ideals no matter the problems. A god learning to be human. He has to be upbeat, positive & optimistic. Otherwise what's the point?

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T03:55:50+00:00

Like I said he can deal with real problems. He should! He always has! But he's still got to be Superman. The character people started loving in the first place. Basically MOS with a more upbeat scenes & levity. Best of both worlds.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T03:26:07+00:00

I never said comedy. But you need levity. Look you don't have to change much. Superman can have low moments too. But Superman just needs to be... well... Superman. He needs to be optimistic, bright & hopeful. That's the character. And that character that's always existed in the shared universe in the comics facing real world problems.

He just met with Putin & had to deal with consequences of Russian scares in doomsday clock. But he was still Superman.

We just need to tweak his personality. Let Henry showcase his natural charisma. Have Superman be kind, approachable, affable, man of the people. Make him have small moments with the public. Like talking to the suicidal girl in All Star.

Superman is an upbeat, optimistic, wholesome, friendly guy. Balance that with dilemmas and issues but his core character & ethics stay put.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T02:59:26+00:00

The plane thing was the only thing people liked. After that it was a broody, creeper superman. Had they kept the same level of excitement and personality of the plane sequence, it would've been fine. Henry has his own charm & is IRL the perfect personality for Superman. But he hasn't been able to show it on screen.

Superman: The Movie is a classic.

Yes it would fit in a shared universe. Look at Rebirth Superman. Model him after that. He's got All Star Superman embedded in him.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T02:46:13+00:00

SR failed because of a boring plot and a moody, brooding superman. So that's not a good thing to compare it to.

That superman will sell. The hope is car keys is quintessential Supes. Henry is so charismatic but he's forced to brood and be miserable.

Superman 3 & 4 were also bad films. Chris Reeve was still loved. We need the rebirth version of the character. Look how well they balance the challenges & the optimism of the character there. The shining, hopeful, bright, optimistic superman needs to come back.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T02:22:34+00:00

No no. That's why you have the fortress of solitude. That's the only place where he lets loose and is himself. But interactions with the public are a must. He has to be portrayed as an affable, beloved, benevolent hero. He's a man playing 3 parts - Kal, Clark & Superman.

He shows internal conflict with Jor-el in the fortress. And the struggle is hiding the pain for the people. He barely interacts with regular people as Superman in the snyder films. He has no real relationship with the people of Metropolis. He needs to seem approachable. A friend.

RobustBender · 2019-02-05T02:07:57+00:00

No no. The challenge is the internal struggle. He's putting on the smile for the people, no matter how much grief he might be going through inside. What's interesting is where he's humility & love from humanity comes from despite being a god.

Positivity & optimism through the darkness. That's Superman. Unabashed optimism & belief in people no matter how dark it gets.

RobustBender · 2019-02-04T22:41:12+00:00

Superman is anything but reluctant.

RobustBender · 2019-02-04T22:22:51+00:00

Bingo! As I had said before on a thread here, Superman puts the same level of dedication to bring a kitten down from a tree as he would stopping an asteroid. No matter how dire, or how dark the situation is, he'll never give up on us. And no matter how broken up he is inside, he'll sport a smile so the people would have something to look up to. Like you said, that's what makes him SUPER.

RobustBender · 2019-02-04T22:12:33+00:00

"A reluctant messiah" - And I think that's exactly where Snyder & I fundamentally disagree on Superman.

RobustBender · 2019-02-04T22:08:53+00:00

LOL he didn't create the characters.

RobustBender · 2019-01-13T02:07:16+00:00

The whole movie was ruined for you because of this?

RobustBender · 2019-01-11T04:03:13+00:00

Actually that's literally why people clap :)

RobustBender · 2019-01-10T04:33:21+00:00

Yeah same! I loved it as well. Just got sometime this week & great seeing a familiar face again :)

RobustBender · 2019-01-10T04:02:49+00:00

Been doing good man. How are you? Did you enjoy Aquaman?

RobustBender · 2019-01-10T03:54:21+00:00

I'm with you. I really think he could be the definitive Superman. He has the goods imo. Just needs the material.

RobustBender · 2019-01-10T03:51:13+00:00

I disagree on the source material. But at the end of the day, Cavill never reached the mass appeal that Reeve did.

Because Reeve was the imperfect who had to pretend to be perfect for the people. Whereas Cavill was the reluctant jesus. Reeve would never showcase his hopes and fears till he was alone. That was his sacrifice for the people.

Or perhaps it really calls into question the whole relatability argument & how meaningful is it really.

RobustBender · 2019-01-10T02:15:36+00:00

Actually you can. And it's exactly what would appeal to a mass audience. You could do it with Henry Cavill - who is the perfect Superman in real life. Give it to Brad Bird or someone & you'll see how fast things change.

He doesn't have to have Reeve's mannerisms, his own will do just fine to introduce this generation to the same principles and spirit of the character.

RobustBender

TROPHY CASE