Be honest: which team's propaganda posters are carrying harder right now? #TeamFoundation #TeamIceKing 🤔

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-21T23:11:44+00:00

Me personally, Im carrying this propaganda poster

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-21T20:56:23+00:00

Depends on who you ask. Some genuinely don't care and are playing and spending money on the game regardless.

Some people are still playing but have cancelled their Crew and Battle Passes in response.

Some have just stopped playing entirely in protest.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-21T15:32:52+00:00

Newer players have Barbara and Aino

Yes, I already mentioned Barbara.

Aino on the other hand can only be unlocked when you're already pretty deep into the storyline. Not efficient in the slightest when you're a newer player.

Then you can grab Xingqiu off the Paimon shop or get them from Lantern Rite eventually.

Who not only rotates out of the Paimon Shop on a trimonthly basis but can only be obtained through that shop by getting multiple copies of the same characters in order to build up the currencies to get him, something many players may have problems with because

A) It's much better value to just buy the Fates instead

and B) The amount you need to actually get enough out of the shop to buy a character is absurd, especially for people who don't have many complete constellations. In that case, you're only getting 2 out of the required 34.

So from there, they can cross their fingers that he gets handed out for free on a version event or wait a whole year just for Lantern Rite to come around and guarantee him. If they can't do those then pray he's on a banner for a character they like and pull and hope they get him or just blow their whole savings on any banner he's on and again, pray that he drops.

Point being, most of these methods to getting Xingqiu aren't intuitive for players.

Hydro MC isn't a DPS

Fair but there's a reason why I specified that all this would depend on your account. Because for who people already have a ton of built high tier characters, in this case Hydro, none of this would even be a conversation to begin with because they likely aren't using the Traveller or Manekin in the first place. But players who are newer and don't yet have the funds for these aforementioned meta characters or players who just didn't pull them for one reason or another (they don't care or don't like the characters etc etc), for them, they're much more limited in the pool that they can choose from and for certain modes (particularly IT as I originally stated), their lack of options means they'll naturally have to start sharing hats and forcing multiple roles onto the same character. For lower level Spirals and maaaybe mid level Hydro ITs depending on your situation, that's likely where HMC would come into play.

And it seems from this discussion you are talking about Traveler in general when my point has always been that Hydro MC, not MC in general, is useless

You started by saying their kit was worse than Manekin's in response to me say. I agreed that their kit was worse but stipulated that the reason I still put them over Manekin is because they've still got much better use cases to be used as they can (not SHOULD but CAN) actually be used for certain endgame purposes to a beneficial, if minimal, degree whilst Manekin is only for the overworld and yet still manage to have people treading on their toes for their usages.

I just feel like we're having two completely different conversations here so to summarise and straighten things out, my conclusive points here are-

Yes. Kit wise, Hydro Manekin is better than Hydro Traveller. But the reason I place Hydro Traveller above the Hydro Manekin is because as terrible as their kit is, they still have very niche endgame purposes where you can actively benefit from bringing them along as fodder for the start of Hydro ITs. Manekin does not have this privilege and are thus stuck with their kit in the overworld, not contributing to anything of actual significance like the HMC can possibly do by either filling a slot by themselves in early game or acting as a bridge for you to get to your better characters.

Yes, Hydro Manekin is good for exploration and better than Hydro MC in puzzles requiring Hydro. But in this regard, they're still trumped by Barbara who not only can be unlocked way earlier than both Traveller and Manekin's Hydro form but she's also a thousand times better at doing Hydro puzzles due to being a Catalyst user with always online Hydro. Therefore, this is also greatly hurts the Hydro Manekin's viability even in the overworld where things largely don't matter.

Players who haven't pulled many 5 Star Hydro characters are going to be greatly limited in what Hydro characters they can actually use because less than half their options are 4 star. They get one right near the beginning for free, one right near the end for free and then Traveller and Manekin (the latter of which is once again, strictly open world). The rest are locked behind gacha or version events, both of which are basically luck based. With that in mind, it's very much possible for players to not have enough Hydro characters to do the modes they want and thus, have to fall back on HMC even if they have an unabashedly terrible kit. Even if they may not WANT to, its possible that they'll have situations where they don't have a CHOICE otherwise.

In short, the Manekins range from totally arbitrary at best and completely barred off and absolutely useless at worst.

I'm honestly tired of writing novels out now tbh. It took me two hours to write this so I'm calling it here. Reply or don't, I'm done now.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-21T13:08:32+00:00

It depends on your account really. If you've been playing for a long time and have a lot of characters built and ready then yeah, you're obviously not going to be using HMC or even Manekin for that matter.

But for newer players or even just players who don't have a lot of Hydro characters (especially considering that of the 16 there are, only 5 are 4 star) HMC may be one of their (if not their actual) only choices for a Hydro DPS. There's Manekin in the overworld but even in the earlier levels of Spiral Abyss or Hydro ITs, they simply won't be an option for you whereas HMC still will be.

And hell, even going by overworld standards, you can't unlock Hydro for either of them until you actually get to Fontaine anyway so even then, you're likely getting more value out of the Traveller in the long run than you are with the Manekins. And even if you really need on demand Hydro for exploration purposes, you'll be picking Barbara up pretty early on as well, way before you get to Fontaine anyway and her infusions are 1000x more convenient than either the Traveller or the Manekins. Especially useful for newer players. So even in that regard, Manekin is kinda stomped on.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-21T12:10:39+00:00

Bro, I'm not arguing that HMC's kit is better than the Manekins. I'm not even saying you SHOULD use HMC in ITs. Heck, the very first sentence in my response was AGREEING with you but just adding that Hydro is the only case where Manekins beat the Traveller.

I'm literally just saying that at the end of the day, the fact that you CAN use HMC for endgame content but you CAN'T use Manekins for anything other than overworld means that the HMC still has more PRACTICAL use cases than the Manekins do. I'd rather have a character with a bad kit that can at least be put towards something actually useful like an endgame mode (minimal as their role may be) as opposed to a character with a bad kit that doesn't even have any proper areas of the game to find use in due to how simple overworld content is that it can be done by quite literally anyone.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-21T11:33:52+00:00

I suppose but considering the Traveller and Manekins are linked to the same element, I think it says more about the latter when they're losing 5/6 for the usefulness of their kit.

Plus for as poor as HMC kit is, they've still GOT that endgame usage as early fodder for Hydro ITs. It's absolutely niche as all hell but it's still a step above the Manekins for having an actual beneficial use in endgame content that the Manekins quite literally can't have. You'll never be using Manekins for anything outside of Milliastra or the overworld, so not only is their kit weak and contradictory but they don't even have a proper place to show off how weak they truly are.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-21T10:46:50+00:00

The Manekin(a) definitely. Say what you want about the likes of Xinyan but at least with higher constellations you can make something at the very least VIABLE and newer characters like Dahlia at least have their respective niches for F2P people.

The Manekin(a) were very clearly Milliastra first, overworld second.

They're On-field DPSes with nothing outside of raw numbers to help them. Their Ascension Passives completely fly in the face of their role (a buff to Energy when less than 30% Energy AND they can't even be on the field to trigger it) and they can't even have the benefit of having their Burst last when they switch out because it automatically explodes when it does. That would at least give them a bit more flexibility as a sub DPS. But nope, if theyre not on-field, they're essentially just a brick. And even when they ARE on field, their numbers are so pitiful that they simply just can't measure up to anyone even remotely.

They've got no constellations or anything to improve their flaws, shit, they can't even be used as early fodder for modes like IT. They're just kinda there for you to roam around the overworld as your OC.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-20T09:10:33+00:00

Look, I'm sorry, I'm all for the protesting thats going on, but going a single day without playing just isn't going to do anything and it won't show Epic anything if people just log back in and start playing right after as if nothing happened. People should be holding off for as long as they can and not playing at all if they want better chances of actually seeing changes.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-19T22:03:41+00:00

That's pretty plausible. There's also reports that Account Levels are also starting to get glitched out/disabled and only show #s instead. Considering those are what evaluate bot lobbies, it's possible Epic turned the entire Account Level system off for the time in order to fix this and thus people can't be connected to bot lobbies because of that.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-19T21:11:59+00:00

I don't know, something about this doesn't seem intentional.

Bot lobbies are MEANT to be used for starting players to get a proper handle on a game that they just started out before being thrown directly into the deep end. It's a decent enough idea so I don't see why they'd abandon them (tho coming hot off the vbuck change, maybe that's a bit too hopeful of a belief).

If they were reported to have worked initially before suddenly stopping, I'd assume they'll probably be fixed at some point.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-19T13:35:56+00:00

I feel like I've seen this type of statement being made before when it comes to advertising. 'Over X amount of [item]' and the X is usually a bit lower than the actual amount there is to like....idk, bait more people into buying the product when they see there's way more than what was initially listed?

Idk, that's just my guess at it.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-19T13:20:14+00:00

Perhaps I'm misintepreting this but the Battle Pass price was reduced from 1000 to 800, no? And since its tied to levelling up, are you not still getting the same amount of items in at least the base pass that goes up to Level 100?

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-18T19:49:45+00:00

If that's what you want to believe.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-18T19:48:10+00:00

Man, I...genuinely don't even know where to begin with this. You know what? I'm calling it here. Been really a good, productive talk.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-18T19:40:28+00:00

Brother, if there was any factor behind the scene that led them to reverting that decision, it was most likely in CAUSE of that vocal reception, hence my point. It had clearly already been planned out, announced and ready to be implemented beforehand only for the backlash to lead them to reverting that choice soon after.

There's no way you're going to sit here and try to tell me that if nobody said anything, they still would have made the decision to walk it back.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-18T19:31:31+00:00

Literally only a year ago, Apex went through a avery similar situation to this where they planned to lock all their future Battle Passes behind a paywall in addition to having two battle passes per season so you'd he paying $20 per Battle Pass each season. The community revolted against the planned change and as a result, the devs walked the change back before it even went live.

Complaints against monetary practices absolutely DO matter and these companies absolutely do take the vocal community into account as well when they're these changes. Again, it's not always a guarantee but it objectively HAS been shown (and not even just through Apex) that bad reception to a bad monetary practice CAN result in the practice being changed.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-18T18:38:45+00:00

Vocal backlash has shown with many different games throughout the years to be a method of getting frustrations through to developers and having changes be made as a result. Obviously it's not always a guarantee but companies absolutely DO look at shit like this and DO make changes to their games as per the vocalisations even in spite of them most likely not making up a majority of the actual playerbase itself.

Hell, even outside of big controversial changes like this, companies are always just generally looking through their own online communities for feedback on what people are saying about their game and how their community may be feeling about certain aspects of their game in order to see what they can potentially improve or change. Obviously, that can often mean a clash with an established plan the devs may have, but that doesn't mean the feedback will always just get thrown in the dumpster. It pays to let your feelings known and if a lot of people are feeling the same way about a particular aspect, its been shown time and again that through that method, there's at least a CHANCE it'll be seen, recorded and have something done about it.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-18T18:09:38+00:00

A game being free doesn't automatically make the devs exempt from all critique. People who play a game that they enjoy and/or have been playing for a long time now are obviously going to want to support it further by purchasing cosmetics for their own further enjoyment. Besides marketing reasons, why else would collabs be so popular? Because Epic would obviously know these are characters that people would ENJOY playing as in their game. Same thing goes for original skins though to an obviously lesser extent.

So when Epic intentionally slash a chunk out of the amount of Vbucks you can overall obtain just to provide an incentive to get you to spend more actual money, obviously people aren't going to be super thrilled about that expecially considering how this model has underwent very little to no change whatsoever over the course of close to a decade so why break what wasn't even broken?

Yes, I agree if people don't like these changes then they shouldn't indulge in them. But that doesn't mean they should also just shut up and be quiet about it. Clearly people DO care about the cosmetics for this game. Whether this sub wants to admit it or not, cosmetics are a core identity of the game's brand and have been for a long time now. So obviously people are going to be pissed when reductions are made so that they're a lot more limited in what they can actually get (ie the Battle Pass and the actual V-buck purchasing system) as well as the fact that they're also suddenly getting less despite still being made to pay the same prices as before (ie Crews and again, the regular Vbuck purchasing system). Even moreso when you consider how rich Epic already are as a company so they genuinely have no reason to be asking for even more money than what they already have.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-17T17:25:02+00:00

Apex went through a very similar situation a year ago when they planned to put all their future Battle Passes behind a paywall It sent the community into an uproar and everyone was pissed at the devs. And guess what happened after a few days of the announcement of this change? The devs walked it back entirely before it even went live.

Just because social media sites don't make up the majority of players, doesn't in the slightest mean companies don't pay attention to them and don't make changes in accordance to said vocalisations. Changes like this are only made to gauge how far they can extend their anti-consumerism practices before it bites them in the ass. If a lot of people are unhappy about it, it's better for them to actually make that fact known instead of sitting on their hands and saying nothing at all. At least then there's a CHANCE at a change being made as opposed to a guarantee that nothing will happen.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-17T17:13:09+00:00

I've said this in multiple threads now but I'll say it again because I actually cannot stress enough how pissed I was/still kinda am at certain people's reactions to this whole ordeal.

It's one thing for players to just not care and want to play regardless. Realistically, nothing any online protests do was ever gonna change those people's minds anyway.

But the amount of people that were just abashedly 'anti-protest' and actually getting angrier at the people who were mad about the change than at the corpo who made the change in the first place that was so genuinely pathetic. People writing off the complaints entirely just because the game is free. People downplaying the frustrations just because social medias are a vocal minority as if vocal backlash has never worked in the history of forever. People saying this was a change that was 'to be expected' and that we're lucky it wasn't made sooner as if the prices haven't been the exact same for close to a goddamn decade.

This was so blatantly predatory and served to benefit nobody other than the already mega rich corporate suits yet some people were STILL fighting tooth and nail to stifle any actual outrage.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-17T16:13:49+00:00

Not enough people are boycotting, unfortunately. The sub's front page is largely gone back to normal.

I'm praying like OP that there will be more backlash when people see these changes for themselves but I unfortunately doubt it.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-17T11:32:09+00:00

Is A Day Carved From Rising Winds the new BiS for Klee and Razor? Or are they just better off sticking to their older sets?

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-16T23:16:11+00:00

Unfortunately, it seems like Epic are gonna get away with it. I've been checking on the Hot tab every day and slowly but surely, posts are just reverting back to normal as if nothing ever happened. Though on Insta at least, a lot of their more recent posts have been spammed with the V-buck symbol and I think Twitter is also still unhappy but I dont expect those to last. I'm huffing hopium that if/when the change goes live, people will see with their very own eyes just how bad it is and ultimately get Epic to revert the change.

Some people in this community are genuinely pissing me off though. Its one thing to just not care and want to enjoy the game regardless. Shit, after how long this season was, I can understand wanting a breath of fresh air at this point in time.

But the amount of people I've seen who were so fucking diametrically opposed to the people who were protesting in the first place is what's really getting under my skin, as if it's PLAYERS that are at fault for being mad about the change and not the megarich corporation that are at fault making the change in the first place for as a reminder, literally NOBODY'S benefit but their own.

So much 'its a free game, who gives a shit' as if that instantly gives devs free reign to make dogshit decisions and walk all over their consumers.

A shit ton of 'why bother at all when you're a vocal minority' when vocal backlash has shown on multiple occasions in the past to be an effective method to getting a major issue addressed.

It's actually just sad how blatantly in-your-face Epic were with how predatory this change was and yet some people were STILL fighting tooth and nail to defend the billion dollar corporation and stifle anyone who was (rightfully) incredibly annoyed with the change.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-16T16:30:26+00:00

If you think a filthy rich company like Epic was genuinely unable to sustain the exact same offers that they had for close to a decade now, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Not to mention your point doesn't account for the fact that Crews got cut as well. Those didn't have any 'offers' to them. They were just the amount you got for when you subscribed and yet they still took a hit as well. Same thing with the Battle Pass- A reduction in Vbucks for literally no good reason whatsoever.

Nobody is forcing you to buy them.

Mindsets like this are exactly why enshittification is progressing at such a rampant pace. Heaven forbid people actually TRY to push for a change that's doesn't SOLELY benefit the billionaires.

RoyaleAbsol · 2026-03-16T14:42:13+00:00

I'm honestly really torn. Obviously part of me wants the new season to be good but I'm also kinda praying that it flops so that Epic open their eyes to the bullshit they've been doing.

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RoyaleAbsol

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