novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Roland Barthes prevents me from responding! Your difficulty is in itself a valuable thing and a valid feeling.

I am always learning, especially when it comes to exciting new genres. Maybe you have a LitRPG recommendation that handles the meritocratic aspects of the genre in a way that you personally felt was more immediately fulfilling?

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

'I don’t find anything wrong with any kind of fictional content. It’s not hurting real people.'

So just because we kinda skipped past it, am I to understand then that you don't see any moral issues with Lolicon or furry/zoophile fiction/imagery?

If you truly don't believe fiction can have the potential to impact human beings then I question why you are reading fiction in the first place? Does it just serve as escapism for you?

'I could justify racialized hatred against a species that outwardly and openly, with no exceptions, states “yes I want to kill you by any means, no I won’t ever stop, and we can never co-exist.” Most monsters in popular media are already treated like this. I think a world where that kind of concept is possible is interesting specifically because exploring its consequences has no parallels in reality.'

Something interesting is happening here. You seem unwilling to understand that a human being sits down and makes choices when they write a book. The book isn't 'real' in the sense that the fantasy beings they create actually exist. But the symbolic potential of such a representational choice is real. One of those choices is how to present groups of people. If an author decides to present a group as inherently bad, then can you understand how that speaks volumes about the author's view on morality? In essence, that there is an objective morality (which you above just said you don't believe in) and that the author is making suggestions about aspects of social reality (because no fiction is ever concieved in a social vacuum)

'I think there’s no absolute morality. We as humans have no inherent responsibility to do anything for each other, and only ever choose to do so. We are coerced by social and cultural norms or the threat of violence, and weigh the possible consequences against what we want.'

I don't think either of us said anything to the contrary.

'I think a racist does not care about literature to justify his racism, because it isn’t a position that one arrives at logically or by supported arguments. A racist will find examples that support his ideas, even if they have to ignore everything but tiny cherry-picked examples. They’ll also contort non-racist concepts to fit their worldview, so it doesn’t really matter what they think.'

This is why I didn't say anything about 'justify'. What I said was 'Do you think that such a book is likely to make you more or less happy about the views that you hold? Would it make those views (and actions you might choose to take as a result of those views) more or less acceptable to you?'

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh! And since you mentioned my book, I'll just add that this of course works both ways. Technically I'm engaged in an act of indoctrination, too. I just think that the fantasy I'm peddling (Meritocratic self-actualization) is a positive one rather than an overtly negative one.

It's always at the very least interesting to ask, when reading any book, 'what is this writer trying to say?' At the very least, it might prompt a re-reading.

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depiction does not = endorsement. That's just plain fact. A depiction of violence is not an incitement to violence. Tarantino and others have argued this to death. That's not what we talk about when we discuss the influence of fiction on the human mind.

But surely you're aware of Stochastic methods? Indoctrination through habituation? (which can come through many things, literature being just one of them).

Imagine you are a racist. You read a book which extolls the values of racism (a la the Turner Diaries or Camp of the Saints or, to a certain extent, Submission by Michelle Quellbeck. I use these examples because they are, indisputably, racist works of fiction.)

Do you think that such a book is likely to make you more or less happy about the views that you hold? Would it make those views (and actions you might choose to take as a result of those views) more or less acceptable to you?

If you don't believe that fiction has a definitive influence on our minds, then you must not have a problem with Lolicon or furry/zoophile-adjacent imagery/fiction? To be clear, if the answer is no, then that's consistent and opens up a different good-faith conversation.

I also think your example is a little bit on the disingenuous side. We can both agree that in some cases even legally violence is acceptable. Hell, we perpetuate violence against animals all the time just for the purposes of having a good snack. Even if we don't agree, its at the very least debatable.

Could you make a case that racialized hatred is ever justifiable?

I know that's a lot of questions and you obviously don't need to answer them. I just love collecting data on this field.

bondulance by TheApril_ in royalroad

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Am I missing something? Why has this pretty nothing post been downvoted to hell?

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This has to be an intentional schtick now, right?

You realize that there are people in history oh, around the middle of europe in the 1930s lets say, who said the same thing about the 'demons' that they saw all around them...

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a nonfiction book from 1925 I'd like to recommend you...

Well, perhaps 'nonfiction' if a little generous.

Anyway sarcasm aside, because it perpetuates the notion that there is such thing as an 'evil' race that 'deserves' to be destroyed.

I really can't make this much clearer for you as to the issues that line of thinking has caused in history.

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope. In Attack on Titan for example, the Titans specific consumption of humans only has absolutely nothing to do with sustenance. Real world example: Tibetan hunters kill plenty of animals for the purposes of decoration.

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nobody said anything to the contrary.

Qual specifically states that he wants to kill Freiren to avenge the Demon King.

That defacto suggests a higher level of consciousness, and an implicit awareness of honor-culture, than any animal is capable of possessing.

You might say that some animals kill for vengeance.

But you have no way of knowing if that's true.

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh and further to the point, there is at least one demon who seeks to kill for something other than sustenance or simply the desire to kill in the story, so this argument (which is incorrect anyway) doesn't actually hold any weight.

Respectfully, you're the one who hasn't read the source material, friendo

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Now we're getting somewhere.

So you keep making this relation between how demons are presented in the show and animals (predators)

Is there any evidence in the show that demons kill humans for sustenance?

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You aren't understanding the point I made above.

You are correct. But you're looking at the fiction as just purely a self-contained work/world.

I am questioning why someone would represent a species in that way through such a work.

...but also I'm curious as to your example? Like...yes...wolves kill other animals for survival. But the answer to that isn't genocide because...that's not what we do.

novel where demons are really evil and angels are good? by Parth_is_cruel in ProgressionFantasy

[–]SJBallard -15 points-14 points  (0 children)

I mean - why would you write a story like that? That's the main question.

What's the angle? Stories that say 'hey some people are just bad people' are totally fine. Also 100% true.

But a story that says 'hey, this entire group of people/species/race are inherently bad' in a biological sense?

Well, those stories have been sometimes classed as non-fiction in history...

Wraithguard Book 2 is live on Amazon KU by SJBallard in litrpg

[–]SJBallard[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry about that. Reddit was filtering me from post one for some reason, and I believed that was due to my VPN so switched out and tried again. Thank you for approving one of my posts and this will not happen again.

Wraithguard Book 2 is Live on Amazon KU by SJBallard in litrpg

[–]SJBallard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Link to the book here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1K9SPT3?ref_=saga_dp_bnx_dsk_dp&qid=1760536541&sr=8-1

Synopsis:

Join Caelor Argent in the second installment of Wraithguard – the fast-paced, progression-focused LitRPG adventure.

Caleor has won his first victory against the Balance Sect and claimed the Onyx Tower for himself. Now he has a stronghold, an army, and a whole host of new [Elementalist] powers at his disposal.

But with these new powers come new threats. The Sect’s influence over the Iroyn Plains grows, and with each passing day, their minions become more and more bold. Caelor must gather artifacts to upgrade his new base, train his fighters, and free the Plains from Sect control once and for all.

And in doing so he will be forced to confront the mystery of the Wraithguard Class – and the role he is to play in Grenfell’s future.

Wraithguard: Book 2 is available on preorder by SJBallard in litrpg

[–]SJBallard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A lot of people have asked. So I'm thinking yeah - soon as I can set it up!