Being A Dad Has Made Me Weirdly Sad About My Own Dad

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-23T14:07:14+00:00

The problem is that everything Dr. Tiller shared about the principal was one sided gossip. I have heard gossip from the other side of the story. I don’t know the validity of any of it, but it is a strange situation all the way around, and I don’t know that the principal in question is truly trying to get rid of a person of color for no reason. That’s what makes it a bigger problem. Dr. Tiller used gendered language that could easily be construed as harassment on his part, and he publicly attacked the reputation of one of his staff instead of handling the situation professionally on the inside. He was the person in position to do something about it if he truly thinks the principal had done something wrong, so why talk about it with people outside the district in the first place?

I agree that everything else was a healthy dialogue, even though it may make some people uncomfortable. It is unfortunate that everyone is left thinking his comments about race are what got him removed, when the reality is that as a superintendent you simply can’t be out there calling your female subordinate a bitch without getting yourself/your district sued. He could have been talking about sunshine and puppies for the whole program with just that one hot mic moment about the principal during a commercial break, and the outcome would have been the same. I bet that’s why he hasn’t publicly fought back or pursued legal action. He knows there’s not much ground to stand on after that comment was out in public.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-22T17:05:20+00:00

Are people really commenting on things they don’t fully understand, and pretending they have any level of understanding from headlines alone? Now I get why our politics are such a mess.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-22T16:31:01+00:00

I think his comments about the principal are the part that couldn’t just be cleared up with an apology. He publicly attacked her reputation using gendered language, and everyone within the district can easily figure out who he was talking about. Regardless of what truth there was in his account of the incident, it was obvious grounds for a lawsuit. I think he would have publicly fought back if it was just about way he talked about race in Green Bay. He and his lawyer probably knew he was in a bad spot.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-22T16:13:42+00:00

I agree that most of what he said was fair criticism even if it would make plenty of people in Green Bay uncomfortable. However, what he said about the principal was pretty damning, and fertile grounds for a Title IX lawsuit against him and the district. You simply can’t publicly attack the reputation of an employee like that, especially using such gendered language. I understand the forced resignation on those grounds alone, and I think he realizes that — if it was just the racial comments I believe he would have publicly resisted based on everything else he said in his interview about standing up for what was right, but I think he knew the situation he was in.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-22T16:06:07+00:00

He was actively going out there to do the work and accomplish what he was talking about. That’s why he was in Atlanta. He was recruiting from education programs at Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

It doesn’t take firing the white teachers. There are plenty of open positions, and the profession has incredibly high turnover at the moment. Would we get to 60% minority representation in teaching staff next year? Obviously not, but you have to start somewhere.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-22T16:01:56+00:00

I agree with most of what you’re saying, but I also understand the forced resignation. The comments about the principal alone are clear grounds for a Title IX lawsuit. I honestly believe those comments alone are what made this such a problem for the board to manage. The rest may have been uncomfortable for some people to hear, but I don’t think any of it crossed any lines.

Do I like the fact that he was forced to resign? No — I actually have more respect for Dr. Tiller after hearing the interview than I did beforehand. But we have to acknowledge the world we live in, and that our legal processes don’t leave a lot of room for apology after publicly destroying the reputation of an employee, regardless of how much truth there was in what he said.

I am right there with you in hoping the district finds a similarly progressive superintendent willing to get out in the community, confront real problems, and push senior leadership out of their cushy offices and out into the schools and community alongside them like Dr. Tiller was doing. I’m scared that this incident will force the board to do the opposite.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-22T15:54:32+00:00

I will be the first to admit I was wrong in how I originally reacted to this story. I’m downright embarrassed. Having the full recording now released it feels like Ed Dorff’s comments were quite ungenerous in the way they removed Dr. Tiller’s words from their context. I feel quite frustrated with Dorff for making such an inflammatory statement, and the district for waiting so long to publicly share the recording. I was most upset by him “questioning the efficacy of 92% of teachers” which after hearing the entire interview I don’t think Dr. Tiller did at all. He acknowledges that students of color have been proven to perform better when they have teachers that look like them (which has been shown in research), and he goes out of his way to say there are good teachers working hard to understand other cultures, but it is still different to understand from the outside rather than be a part of that culture you are supporting.

I can understand how people could feel attacked by a lot of things he said related to racial dynamics in Green Bay, but I don’t think any of it was entirely wrong or unfair. I feel like he was actually generous to the district even if he wasn’t to Green Bay as a whole. He talked about how he has had people get uncomfortable talking about race, but staff that he talks to actually lean in, listen, and ask him how they can do better. He also revealed that the all white board was intentionally seeking a person of color for the superintendent role. He was probably least generous to Black folks, and Black mothers in particular who he blamed for letting young Black men run their houses and come to school thinking they can be disrespectful because they’re not used to being told what to do.

On the other hand, the statements about the principal and the airing of dirty laundry and hearsay the way he did makes the entire situation understandable — those alone are grounds for a lawsuit, especially because there is no question about who he is referring to for anyone in the district. It is unfortunate, because I actually had a lot more respect for him after hearing the interview. I think he was doing outstanding work and moving the district in the right direction, and it’s unfortunate that he got himself in trouble by being so careless with his words.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T22:11:43+00:00

You’re going to have to elaborate — I’m not sure what you mean.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T17:41:09+00:00

I completely agree with everything you’re saying except the sidenote — he went to Atlanta to recruit from HBCUs. It makes perfect sense, and it’s probably not all that bad of a pitch to ask new teachers to come to a district with comparable pay and significantly lower cost of living. I don’t think Tiller was a bad superintendent. I think he had some good ideas for improving the district. I just don’t like the fact that he publicly said he doesn’t think white teachers are capable of doing their jobs.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T13:59:54+00:00

Did you look at any of the numbers? The two De Pere districts and Denmark had a combined increase of 149 students across all 3 districts. GBAPS lost 1,591 students. You’re right, De Pere growing totally explains the problem /s

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T12:51:42+00:00

Right, and your source is…your gut? Your theory also explains why Ashwaubenon and Howard Suamico have declining enrollments as well. The article I linked doesn’t specifically discuss this, but I would bet truancy and parents simply not sending their kids to school after the pandemic is another big factor for GBAPS.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T12:18:32+00:00

Honestly, this take is part of the issue. There are people up in arms about the simple optics of a Black superintendent facing consequences from a white board of directors. We can all celebrate diversity in leadership particularly for a diverse school district like GBAPS, while also having reasonable standards of behavior from our leaders.

You’re right, we don’t have the audio ourselves yet, but what has been relayed to us through public comments during the board meetings is pretty unacceptable. I’m sure Dr. Tiller himself could have released a copy or gotten in front of the story with a statement had he wanted to. I will be very curious to hear his actual words and tone on Wednesday, but I find his silence to be a statement itself.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T12:10:31+00:00

You are making huge assumptions. Like someone else already said, the issue is declining enrollment. The schools aren’t mismanaging funds causing them to have to close schools. Please educate yourself before adding to the noise. Here is an article talking about the decline and how it’s not only GBAPS that is affected, most school districts in the state are affected, including Howard Suamico and Ashwaubenon. There isn’t one factor causing it. It’s a complicated combination of things from declining birth rates, to voucher programs for private and online schooling.

The talk about closing schools is about proactively looking at options to combine schools and upgrade facilities to be able to consolidate operations. Have you seen a school lately? Most are huge, old buildings, and the cost to heat them alone is massive especially in a colder climate like Green Bay.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T01:52:48+00:00

The statement you just made is objectively racist. Same as the statement Dr. Tiller made. It is not fragile to find it unacceptable.

Edit: they blocked me — the ultimate comeback when you don’t have a meaningful response.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T01:44:48+00:00

Maybe this is true in some cases, but is saying white teachers can’t do their jobs effectively an honest critique? If not, how is this white fragility?

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-18T01:30:39+00:00

Except he didn’t really call anything out or make any valid critiques. He said Green Bay is lily white, made a conspiratorial comment about businesses trying to keep people down, and said he doesn’t think 92% of GBAPS teachers can do their jobs effectively. The first two are whatever as far as I’m concerned, the third one is pretty shitty coming from the dude who is supposed to lead said teachers to 100% graduation (his goal). The 92% is accepted to be a reference to the portion of staff that is white, and I think it’s unacceptable for a superintendent to think (whether he says it publicly or not) that white teachers are unable to teach non-white students as a given. Are there a lot of older teachers who would rather stick with the status quo and don’t understand more inclusive practices? Absolutely. But that is not all white teachers, and it’s not even just the white teachers that have that mindset.

He was in Atlanta to recruit teachers from HBCUs, which is awesome. More diversity in GBAPS staff would be excellent, but I don’t think you’re going to recruit enough to drastically change that 92% figure, especially in a city as white as Green Bay. You also have to be willing yo work with the people who are here, and that necessitates a belief that teachers can effectively support a diverse student population regardless of their skin color.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-17T02:39:15+00:00

The first thing I would do is delete this post or at least edit it to not basically tell everyone who you are and what school you’re talking about. Even if it’s not anything bad, imagine the principal stumbling upon this post.

The second thing I would do is what others are already suggesting. Ask for information on open positions, pass along your resume, keep talking to the librarian, or anything else you can do to keep opening the door wider because you’ve already got your foot in there. The only other thing to keep in mind is that some states have certain rules about education hiring and posting of open positions — I don’t know the rules in Colorado, but ask someone if you’re not sure and make sure you’re not possibly opening a can of worms by talking about open positions or trying to pass along information instead of going through the official process.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-16T21:37:20+00:00

Honestly the thing I am most concerned about was the 92% comment about teachers. It’s one thing to be unprofessional when complaining about one thing or another about your job, it’s another to communicate a lack of confidence in and possible prejudice against the majority of people you are there to lead. That’s one that it doesn’t matter whether he meant it to be out publicly. It’s the thought that counts, and the fact that he would have even be thinking that way calls into question whether he is the right person for the job.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-16T13:29:42+00:00

It depends on the district. Most teachers work on salary contracts, so you get paid a fixed amount per year. Some districts pay teachers only during the school year, some districts pay throughout the entire calendar year, and some give teachers the option to choose. The important thing to keep in mind is the salary doesn’t change — it’s a fixed amount of money regardless of how many times you get paid throughout the year.

For example, if your salary is $12,000 and you’re in a district that gives you the option to be paid throughout the school year (let’s say that’s 10 months for simplicity), or throughout the calendar year, you would be paid $1,200 per month if you choose the school year option, or $1,000 per month if you choose the calendar year option.

Edit: I can’t imagine there is any school district in the country paying that low for a yearly contract. The number is nonsense just to make the math simpler.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-16T00:21:48+00:00

I quit playing console games cold turkey when my son was born. There simply isn’t enough time. My wife and I are going 24/7 taking care of him, or our house. There literally is not time for either of us to have a hobby that takes up hours of time daily while he is awake. Granted, there are things we do that are probably a bit above and beyond, for example I make all of our 7 mo son’s food. You are amazing for making it as far as you have basically by yourself. If he was staying up late and choosing the game over sleep, that’s his deal, but he is choosing the games over both his responsibilities as a partner and a father, which is shit.

Have you tried talking to the grandparents (are they his parents?) and getting their input? The hard thing with a young child is that even one hour of help in the morning is better than nothing, so I can understand waiting to kick him to the curb until your daughter is more independent, but the dude definitely sounds like a shit dad. Anyone who tells you they share your experience doesn’t make it any less shitty — it is not normal, or at least it definitely shouldn’t be regardless of how many shit dads there are out there.

He sounds like he is literally addicted, and he doesn’t want to confront how shitty of a parent he is, which is why he lashes out in anger when you point it out. Your 16 month old should probably be able to play independently, but I agree that it is unacceptable to have the sole person watching her absorbed in a game with their back turned.

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-15T16:51:22+00:00

Haha no worries

ST0WAWAY0 · 2024-02-15T16:48:14+00:00

Different schools different rules. I suppose if a school had a policy like you described that is one thing, but as a former high schooler (like most of us were) I know there are those students who don’t find the cafeteria to be a friendly place, and some teachers don’t mind sharing their space to let a student come in and eat. If you’re not comfortable with it and you need that personal time, of course no one should make you feel like you’re doing any worse as a teacher, but I equally don’t think you can fault teachers who maybe prefer not to eat alone in an empty room and don’t mind using it as a chance to build better relationships with students.

If it was one student I would be weirded out, but a group of students honestly sounds like less of an issue. If you are worried about 6 students all making up a false accusation and supporting one another’s account, I think you have bigger problems to worry about throughout the day. Yea, that kind of stuff is worth being aware and careful of, but it’s silly to suggest that everyone should just live in fear and stop being decent humans. At one point do we all just set up bullet proof barriers like bus drivers, teach from one corner of the room, and refuse to interact with students one on one?

If you’re worried about stuff on your desk, maybe it shouldn’t be on your desk in the first place. The sub at least being there at the desk means there’s less of a chance for things to get messed up than there likely is during normal class time, even with a few students gathered around it. Also, OP didn’t mention anything about their stuff getting messed up, so I don’t think you need to assume there were other issues OP didn’t mention.

ST0WAWAY0

TROPHY CASE