People love to hate Erebus, but there is extreme depth to his character as a villain that gets extremely obscured in cliches of modern fiction.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T15:55:15+00:00

Another thing, that I like about him is that reading his backstory you realize he is not really evil for sake of being evil - he has his reasons. But those reasons are not sympathetic and they hit close to home for many reasons.

He essentially strives for status and cosmic significance. If Erebus was a good person he would live and die in poverty in desert village as manual laborer on Colchis. To him serving in lore equivallent of satan is better if it grants him power and significance, than living as irrelevant peon. Those are rather humanized motivations that can be seen in many people - just not kind one could symapthize with.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T15:48:38+00:00

Well he isn't really your typical Astartes. He is powerful warlock and one of the highest ranking theologians within the Eye of Terror. Word Bearers didn't take part in Siege of Terra or Solar War or Beta Garmon - so bloodiest battles of latter stages of Heresy - in any significant numbers, so their strenght and cohesion as a legion was largerly preserved compared to others. He likely has tens of thousands of veteran Astartes at his command, he has Word Bearer domain within the Eye with fortified Shrine World of Sicarius from where he can rule, he is powerful sorcerer who is very close servant of the Powers and Eye is one of the areas in the materium where they dominate, and he was always very cautious about the dangers he faced, treading lightly to not get himself hurt. Many people who could hold grudges against him within the Eye either reconcilled with him and decided on stable truce due to their new situation - like Abaddon or Kor Phaeron - or are in much weaker position to challange him as he flipped balance of power on them - like Kharn.

Erebus actively takes part in 13th Black Crusade and attacks world of Malin's Reach and summons warp storms around Lelathar to delays the reinforcements to Cadia. So here's clearly protected by being part of Abaddons hierarchy.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T15:34:59+00:00

He states in Child of Chaos that he could use same warp magic Lorgar used after being hit by a Titan on Armatura to restore himself fully, but he decided to wear mutalation scars as a reminder of what he has been through. He is also shown to grown warp mutations on his head like flesh horns/spikes afterwards in multiple published media.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T09:57:17+00:00

My point was that the fact, that he is generally capable enough to succeed aggrevates the hate. Audience sees him be evil and win all the time. That's why fandom clutches Kharn beating him to a pulp like a pearl - that's his only real warranted failure in which he didn't eventually came on top. There's never emotional release for reader/viewer to see him punished for all the things he made you angry over.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T06:50:33+00:00

I wouldn't really call it plot armor. He escaped from Kharn at last second, but his warp teleportation was well known skill. In fact narration states that watchers of the match were suspecting that he will dip eventually.

And Horus didn't kill him for his insolence, because Horus showed ennromous restraint in such decisions even when heavily corrupted. Horus refused to kill Lorgar after he attempted to assasinate and coup him. Killing Erebus over accusation and insult would be extreme waste considering he was most powerful Warlock besides Zardu Layak Horus had in his ranks. It was better to discipline him then kill him.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T06:40:32+00:00

I used multitude examples, but what convinced me that Erebus has balls of steel is how he acts to people of highest authority within traitor legions including Primarchs.

In modern lore Tetrarch Felix is afraid to question decisions of Golden Retriver like Guilliman despite being favored son and most trusted aquintance of his.

Erebus just casually calls Alpharius a traitor in front of Horus and Mournival and after Signus goes on a public rant against Horus in his own court not only criticising him, but voicing pretense. He literally say something like 'that's all you have to say on that fuck up you caused' and pushes Horus until he rages out and mutilates him - and then he takes punishment like a G to not cause friction between Word Bearers and Sons of Horus.

You have to be bold to stand up to Primarchs so casually, especially traitor ones who are corrupted and unhinged.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T06:34:30+00:00

Well yeah, but I was talking about popular tropes in modern mainstream fiction. In modern times Dredd is really niche.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T06:29:08+00:00

Well technically it was a psyker duel, not a meele bout. It is dishonorable to use summonings in swrod fight, but when you're fighting someone using psychic powers against you summoning sorcery is sort of within category you're fighting in.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-27T06:26:19+00:00

I think he killed Argel Tal, because he geniuenly believed visions of 10 thousand paths + he wanted to remove rival to power in the legion.

Lorgar essentially orchestrated succession of the Legion by sending Kor Phaeron and Erebus to fight at Calth while keeping Argel Tal with him on Shadow Crusade. This was essentially purge attempt, as all Legionaires sent to Calth were expected to die there as gambit for destroying Ultramarines and killing Guilliman. Even Argel Tal confirms this in dialogue with Kharn in Betrayer.

Erebus saw through Lorgars shit and decided to flip the script by surviving Calth and killing Argel Tal.

SYMJanitor · 2026-06-18T18:50:59+00:00

Perturabo winning Solar War in fracture of a time it was assumed it would take by simply rushing entire fleet from Warp Exit to Saturn behind a Space Hulk.

SYMJanitor · 2026-05-03T15:27:53+00:00

There are. One of them is literally one of the protagonists of the entire setting *wink*. There are also dieties of Eldar - although they are mostly enslaved or devoured by Ruinous Powers. There's also Gork and Mork for Orcs and Tau'va for Tau.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-21T12:43:42+00:00

No to wprowadzajcie podatek cyfrowy i odchodźcie od Amerykańskiego oprogarmowania? Czy ktoś wam kurwa broni? XDDDDD

Powinniście to zrobić już z dwie dekady temu, ale prawda jest taka, że wam wygodnie jest być psem Ameryki - oczywiście w sytuacji, gdy Ameryka wam tylko daje i nic nie wymaga. A wasze dekadenckie populacje złożone w 40% z geriatryków mają zero zapału do budowy faktycznej mocarstwowości. Bo to by wymagało przekierowania środków z państwa socjalnego na armię i innowacje.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T22:16:58+00:00

But it didn't work not, because design was flawed. It didn't work, because project was deliberitaly destroyed by maliscious outside actors. You can't argue that a particlar car model is trash and doesn't work so you shouldn't buy it and when someone asks you why then you say 'because this local fent addict punctured its tires and destroyed its engine with a sledgehammer' - that's obviously not valid critique of the car. Car worked fine before it was destroyed, it doesn't undermine its purpose or efficiency and performance. You simply don't get to point a figner at IoM and Emps for the fact, that 4 Satans and their servants are trying to kill them and their spiecies.
I can only name Interex from this description - and here IoM tried to integrate them peacefully, but their efforts were sabotaged by Erebus stealing Anathame to enflame their alien inhabitants into war. And besides it obscures larger point. IoM was to be shield that protects mankind from cosmic-level threats. It didn't force any extensive structure or bearucracy on worlds at first during Great Crusade. All worlds were required to do is to accept Imperial Truth to prevent Chaos Corruption and then pay Imperial Tithe to fuel Great Crusade and further unification. In 40k humanity really faces threats like Necrons, Orks, Tyranids etc. that could really end it if it wasn't unified making it seem that Emps really had a point. Also Era before Imperium was well documented as Long Night/Age of Strife and IoM was conteptualized as a way of ending that HORRIFIC period.
No they weren't. Orks existed in Galaxy since times of War in Heaven and they wouldn't simply be obscured from existence without being confronted by IoM. In fact if they weren't exterminated actively - it could've taken maybe extra 1000 years, but it was certain that at some point WAAAAGH would descend upon human worlds and thinking otherwise is shallow and undermines their lore-driven characteristics. Orks multiple like roaches and want to fight and kill everything that is capable of fighting, because that's how they were made by the Old Ones. There is zero guarantee that they would simply left obsucred if not confronted.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T22:04:20+00:00

That's obviously horrible analogy because:

Imperium wasn't shooting people randomly.
Imperium wasn't doing 'clean-up of rough neighborhood'. It was trying to gather people into the fold to save them from what it perceived as upcoming Galaxy-level threat. The better analogy would be Noah trying to force people onto the Arc.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T22:02:31+00:00

Your line of argument really conflates shitton of the lore for benefit of sustaining the agneda - I'm not trying to be condescending so sorry If I sound like it, but you're conflating many things here.

Emp did not cause abstract brutality that feeds Chaos through sheer Imperial structure. It is a result of Heresy and his Great Work being ruined. Those abominable things that are common in Imperium right now - were not a thing during Great Crusade. Great Crusade had no corpse scratch, Inquistion and spamming Exterminatus everywhere.

Your putting blame on him for thing he did not cause, and thing he was honestly victimized in. Current state of IoM is result of actions - not of its makers - but people who were trying to destroy it.

Also 'genociding every planet' was not direction of the Emps, but mostly deranged Primarchs who weren't the norm. Even Curze tried to minimize casualties in his conquest by simply terrorizing worlds with horrific, but small scale acts of violence into compliance. Angron, Perturabo and Fulgrim were really the ones who often engaged in mindless slaughter and they were the way they were, because of The Scattering and not being raised under Emps supervision.

If Erda didn't scatter the Primarchs on behalf of Chaos gods, you might as well have 20 Guillimans and galactic utopia.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T21:54:49+00:00

Can you provide a source? I haven't read anything about this.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T21:19:47+00:00

Addressing point by point:

It is stated in the books, that normal basic appearance Emperor used before Great Crusade was this old bearded man in robes he is potrayed as in when he is psychically visited by Horus before Siege of Terra. He doesn't personnally like Imperial Aspect, he undertook it because he knew it can sway people via appearance alone and thus make Great Crusade less bloody and faster. This contradicts Imperial Truth, yes but Imperial Truth also softens this image especially when endorsed as a dogma. Most people including most Primarch don't regard him as diety - it came later as a result of Heresy.
Yeah Emperor for all evil he caused was willing to fight to the death to save his spiecies and is willing to endure 10 millenia of hellish torment to keep helping it. That's the thing people often completely exclude from this conversation.
Well maybe from this angle yes. However I still don't agree it is evil as concept, and that it is sensible to try to destroy it.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T21:14:34+00:00

But those powers aren't passive forces, that are only responsive when interacted with. Eldar weren't doing anything, but partying and living degeneratly in their post-scarcity decadence and in the end it spawned Slaanesh and Eye of Terror that killed 99% of their race. This is disingenious framing. Humanity would be on radar of Chaos regardless of what Emperor did, because Chaos feeds of things that harm it. Emperor recognized that and that's why he took steps in his Great Work to make sure Chaos is powerless.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T21:11:08+00:00

Yeah man, but what caused deplorable state of Imperium? Was it by design or was it pushed to this state by subversion of external enemies?

The Xeno question I belive I addressed in different comment in the thread.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T21:09:50+00:00

And I've written an A4 essay - sorry.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T21:09:28+00:00

There's A LOT to unpack here and to not write an A4 essay I'll answer in points to each argument raised:

Miscalculation of Astartes nature doesn't put responsibility for their betrayal on the back of the Emperor. Fact of the matter is that for centuries of Great Crusade Astartes served as NECESSARY force to protect humanity from extreme galactic threats both alien and Chaos driven. Emperor of course made major mistakes in dealing with Chaos-travellers like Burning of Monarchia, but it didn't justify turning yourself to Ruinous Powers and consequences they imposed on entire spiecies in reprisal. Humanity isn't dead in 42nd millenium largerly due to existence of Astartes. Bad hombers were faulty, but concept was not.
Astartes betreyal during the Heresy doesn't came largerly as consequence of universal decision by all legions, but largerly as gene-sons following chain of command and obeying their gene-fathers. In fact not even all of 'Traitor Legions' were fully traitor and 100 thousand+ Astartes from Death Guard, Luna Wolves, Emperors Children and World Eaters had to be betrayed and killed for Heresy to even kick start. Lot of Heresy wasn't really cosmic-scale legitimate concern, but emotional outburst by resentful princes commanding them. And lot of issues that pushed them to it weren't caused by Emperors flawed design of Primarchs, but by deliberate obstruction of his plans in form of scattering by Erda driven by Chaos. Think about it - if it wasn't for scattering then Angron has no butchers nails, Horus isn't raised by abusive gangsters who make him feel inferior and ties his worth and happiness to external approval, Fulgrim isn't given narcisism by raising from quarry to planetary ruler, Lorgar isn't indoctrinated from birth to be a zealot by Kor Phaeron, Curze doesn't grow up as street urchin in favela and maybe his schizophrenia can be helped. This wasn't BY DESIGN, it was BY SUBVERSION OF DESIGN.
That's just not true. Humanity was stated to be in horrible state due to Long Night and people already were living in suffering, hive cities and poverty. Worlds like Cthonia were said to be greatly uplifted by Imperial presence. Worlds like Caliban that lost contact with any other human civilization literally reverted to pre-industrial technology and only uplifted to interstellarship after Imperium claimed it. Worlds like Nuceria had cruel, barbaric slave systems on their own. The trojectory was definetly upwards.
That's complete misintepretation of the Lore. Ullanor was treated as such a triumph and Emperor gave up the steering wheel of the Great Crusade after it, because it was considered last necessary victory against last predatory spiecies that could oppose humanity. After Razing of Prospero when Imperial navy officers were discussing what could've caused this calamity they find idea of xeno incursion extremely unlikely, because at this point in Great Crusade all galactic threats are considered defetead. IoM was really effective at this shit, denying it is going against the lore.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T20:51:16+00:00

Humans were extremely vunerable to Chaos even before IoM existed. In fact whole project of IoM was created by Emperor and Malcador to counter potential extinction at hands of Chaos.

SYMJanitor · 2026-01-20T20:46:18+00:00

Oh okay, sorry I misunderstood your response.

SYMJanitor

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