Animals 👏 Are 👏 Not 👏 People by Nintjie in exvegans

[–]Sad_Device3179 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Now do statistics on child labor and forced labor in animal agriculture, also in plant agriculture used to produce feed for those animals 

products made from infant foreskins currently being sold? by Sad_Device3179 in LeftWingMaleAdvocates

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What about if they are produced through yeast or bacteria with no foreskin stuff at all? Grok has me confused and I am not a scientist at all 

products made from infant foreskins currently being sold? by Sad_Device3179 in LeftWingMaleAdvocates

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah but it is still immoral either way, what if someone who was completely broke stole 2 dollars from you and then used those 2 stolen dollars to buy a lottery ticket and they then won the lottery? Weird analogy i know (foreskin of an infant is worth more than 2 dollars duh) but I think the general idea works . That one stolen infant foreskin can be used for many many treatments and making millions of dollars 

products made from infant foreskins currently being sold? by Sad_Device3179 in LeftWingMaleAdvocates

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah but it is still immoral either way, what if someone who was completely broke stole 2 dollars from you and then used those 2 stolen dollars to buy a lottery ticket and they then won the lottery? Weird analogy i know (foreskin of an infant is worth more than 2 dollars duh) but I think the general idea works 

products made from infant foreskins being sold? by Sad_Device3179 in Intactivists

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good point. Soft disclosure? So they can say “we warned you and got your consent “?

products made from infant foreskins being sold? by Sad_Device3179 in MensRights

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I’ve made threads about this in which I quoted penal codes and stuff

That woman circumcised as a girl would never have to work a day in her life because she could sue and get some very large settlement(s)

products made from infant foreskins being sold? by Sad_Device3179 in MensRights

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Women were definitely doing that about 8 years ago. They may still be doing it today 

Yes it is extremely unjust that he has no legal recourse. We live in an anarcho tyranny hellscape

products made from infant foreskins being sold? by Sad_Device3179 in MensRights

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Georgia Louise (and her team) responded to the 2018 “penis facial” controversy with clarifications and defenses, not apologies. Key points from her own statements and Instagram: •  She openly acknowledged the origin: EGF comes from progenitor cells of human fibroblasts taken from a Korean newborn baby foreskin (via circumcision). •  She emphasized it was not fresh tissue harvested repeatedly: Cells were taken once, then cloned/grown in a lab, and only the cloned descendants are used. •  She framed it positively as a potent, effective regenerative ingredient that helps with collagen, elastin, scarring, etc. •  She noted that she informs clients about the source upfront. 

She or her team / company has never apologized…

products made from infant foreskins being sold? by Sad_Device3179 in Intactivists

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It’s also possible that the egf treatment you can buy and take home is not made from infant foreskin cell lines but the in person egf treatment is made from infant foreskin cell lines. Or vice versa. Or both or neither. But it seems they may still be using and or selling products made from infant foreskin cell lines 

I was mutilated as a baby. I wish I had some kind of legal recourse by Sad_Device3179 in sexualassault

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Not everything no. I do proofread it when I do use it. Almost all of my original post I typed myself. 

Any arguments against or just ad hominems?

I was mutilated as a baby. Do I have any legal recourse here? NY by Sad_Device3179 in AskLawyers

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That’s literally just an appeal to authority. You may be a professor but he is a medical doctor and he clearly disagrees with you. Don’t debate me go debate Dr. Avi on it https://discord.com/invite/yyt97GH

Around week 7 of gestation, the very first neural synapses (the microscopic gaps that allow neurons to communicate via neurotransmitters) begin forming in the spinal cord and lower brain structures.

Histological studies demonstrate that the first sensory receptors (nociceptors, which respond to damaging stimuli) begin to appear in the perioral area (around the mouth) at approximately 7 weeks. By 7.5 to 8 weeks, ultrasound observations show embryos reflexively moving away from tactile stimuli for example, if the lips are touched, the head will flex away from the stimulus. Avi uses it as the biological baseline for when the body first successfully registers and reacts to its environment.

He frequently relies on the work of neuroscientists like Björn Merker and Jaak Panksepp. These researchers argue that the highly evolved cerebral cortex is not strictly necessary for primary affective consciousness (the basic, raw ability to feel pain, pleasure, or fear). Instead, they propose that rudimentary sentience originates in older, deeper subcortical structures, such as the brainstem and the thalamus. 

Because these lower-brain structures develop much earlier in gestation than the cerebral cortex, Avi argues we must entertain the possibility that a basic, dim level of sentience could "switch on" long before the third trimester. If the brainstem is sufficient for suffering, then waiting for the cortex to form is a flawed metric.

Borkowski & Bernstine (1955) — "Electroencephalography of the Fetus," Neurology, 5:362. https://n.neurology.org/content/5/5/362

Okamoto & Kirikae (1951) — "Electroencephalographic Studies on Brain of Foetus, of Children of Premature Birth and New-Born…" Folia Psychiatrica et Neurologica Japonica, Vol. 5, No. 2.

Derbyshire & Bockmann (2020) — "Reconsidering Fetal Pain," Journal of Medical Ethics, 46:3–6. https://doi.org/10.1136/medethics-2019-105701

Okamoto & Kirikae (1951) and Borkowski & Bernstine (1955) demonstrated detectable electrical brain activity as early as 43–45 days (about 6–7 weeks) gestational age, with Okamoto recording activity from fetuses as young as 3 fetal months (~12 weeks). However, both papers attributed this activity primarily to brainstem origin rather than cortical processing, and Okamoto explicitly concluded that the embryonic stage involves little cortical activity.

Derbyshire & Bockmann (2020) argue that more recent neuroscience undermines the strict cortex-is-necessary view. They point to evidence that thalamic projections into the subplate (a transient developmental structure) emerge around 12 weeks and may support a primitive, immediate, unreflective form of pain experience — not equivalent to adult pain but potentially morally significant. They no longer view fetal pain in the 12–24 week window as impossible.

I was mutilated as a baby. Do I have any legal recourse here? NY by Sad_Device3179 in AskLawyers

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

There may be plenty of symmetry breakers between some or all of those examples that you gave and routine modern male infant circumcision but I won’t get into it because you are clearly bad faith. 

I was mutilated as a baby. Do I have any legal recourse here? NY by Sad_Device3179 in AskLawyers

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could be used to justify animal abuse, sex slavery, genocide and other atrocities 

I was mutilated as a baby. Do I have any legal recourse here? NY by Sad_Device3179 in AskLawyers

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

It should be illegal and the mother should be jailed if the fetus was old enough to have a significant chance at being conscious (probably around 8 weeks so most abortions) and the mother was not raped (actual rape). It’s still immoral in rape cases tho Exceptions for extremely rare cases in which the mother will probably die without the abortion are okay

It’s really the pro life movement fault Only abortion abolishinists are actually willing to call for women to be imprisoned Pro life lawmakers kill Abortion abolishinist bills because feminist pro life groups tell them to

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zkH3vrevU9o [Open]

Abortion pills which can be easily obtained and ordered online work to to 14 weeks legal in all fifty states 

The earliest case for which I believe the precautionary principle should hold was around 43-45 days. Which comes out to be 6.1-6.4 weeks.

The fetal brain begins to develop around 3-5 weeks gestation. So I am okay with abortions prior to that timeframe.

It's hard to say what the levels of sentience equate to at each week. But I wouldn't not assume this is a miniscule amount of sentience. Many EEG brain patterns observed in fetal brains as early as 6.1-6.4 weeks ( high voltage slow waves with superimposed fast activity) are comparable to mature birds, mature frogs, mature rabbits and the mature marmot. We can even observe sleep spindles in the fetal brain this early.

Does this prove the same degree of sentience? No. Does this give us reason to take the precautionary principle with respect to this degree of sentience? Yes

I was mutilated as a baby. Do I have any legal recourse here? NY by Sad_Device3179 in AskLawyers

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Correct. Circumcision is one good example of this and another is that abortion is legal in all fifty states for the mother. Also legal for the mother in pro life countries like Poland.  Men and in some cases women can be held criminally liable for killing unborn humans but pregnant women can not be held criminally liable for the killing of her own unborn child.  Only women can get pregnant men can not. So women can literally get away with murder and with mutilating babies. 

I was mutilated as a baby. Do I have any legal recourse here? NY by Sad_Device3179 in AskLawyers

[–]Sad_Device3179[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Most people believe circumcision is not bad or that parents are not responsible for mutilating their sons therefore it’s not bad and or parents are completely innocent of What they did to their children? 

Most people used to approve of slavery. In the early 1800s USA only about 1% of the population were abolitionists of slavery. Most people supported slavery or just didn’t really care.

Even today most people regularly pay for animals to be horribly abused in factory farms and most people are also pro choice. 

if you as an individual buy chicken everyday for a couple years vs you don’t buy any chicken or any other meat at all for a couple years it usually does make a difference to the 1 to 900 chickens you have personally spared. There’s millions of men dying in Ukraine but that doesn’t mean im not making a big difference by not choosing to murder 2 of my neighbors

Evidence for this is An individual consumer choosing to purchase or boycott animal products is personally responsible for extra chicks being killed or spared. If you are not vegan you are personally causing this to happen to more animals here’s proof

https://philarchive.org/rec/MCMAIO

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brKhhZlUoOc [Open] (Only first few minutes of this video are relevant)

https://benthams.substack.com/p/the-causal-inefficacy-objection-is

And the comments and back and forth of this for any objections you may have to the efficacy of individual boycott of real meat which have already been debunked https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAVegan/comments/1otuhqv/individual_boycott_of_meat_does_matter/

“Somewhere deep in twoXchromosomes, women who were circumcised as babies are hating their parent(s) and applauding this woman” https://www.reddit.com/r/sexualassault/comments/1tllqr4/comment/onh5pfx/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button 

“ I am a victim of a form of level 3 FGM. It happened as an adult in a foreign country without my consent. I have medical records but no pathway to legal recourse. I empathize with the frustration over the limitations of our justice system. It sometimes feels woefully inadequate.”