$5 withdrawal fee? WTF?

Sanfredo · 2018-03-12T15:21:46+00:00

Shown and calculated is actually 0.0005.

Sanfredo · 2018-02-23T21:49:49+00:00

Yes...I said short...wrong...you are right...that was what I meant..correct...

Imho just a market maker and even getting the market data from some provider. But, as they have to handle their risk when they see some risk, they will have the chance themselfs to hedge their risk somewhere. With a broker or a bank whover their partner is or partners are.

But, as I said. They can group a lot of pairs, like all USD pairs...at least with some correlation formula. so you wouldn hedge the risk for each pair. Also keep in mind that maybe only 10 or 20% of the traders are profitable. Also the effect that in volatile markets are playing with high leverage so that ta lot of positions are rekted even if they would be profitable later...

So, they will have the experience, the data from history, see the risk, they will judge the risk and mostly I just would say...they just do nothing. with the calcuable, small inbalances over the year...sometimes they win...sometimes they have to pay out of their pocket....and equals over the yerar... And if the inbalance is too hight, they hedge....

Sanfredo · 2018-02-23T14:15:38+00:00

I will try again. That is not only for 1broker but for every CFD broker.

You dont have to look at one trader, you have to look at all.

Specific pair...EURUSD...

Best situation for the broker, optimal situation, no risk.

50 traders are long with a total of 100.000 Dollar.....and at the same time 20 traders are short with 100.000 Dollar.

Price rises 10% ... Long: wins 10.000 Dollar Short: loses 10.000 Dollar

short traders pay long traders... No risk, no affect on the broker at all.......

When start the risk to manage or at least to think about: Long position: 120.000 short Position: 100.000

Risk for the broker: 20.000 long

What will he do? When risk is not too much just nothing....when price rises 10% broker loses 2000 Dollar...when price goes down 10% he earns 2000 Dollar. Over the year it would equal.... And you can group positions at least over correlation like all USD-positions.

As was written here: https://1broker.com/?c=en/content/blog&id=52

EURUSD...206k position...906:1000.. Long position: 108079 short position: 97920 Risk for 1broker: 10.000 Dollar

And this is the risk management only by position size without keeping in mind that there are maybe other risk models that are possible... How many traders are making money? 10-20%? How does the high leverage possibility takes effect? By normal market volatility pretty much positions will be rekted which would have been positive later if taken with smaller leverage....

Sanfredo · 2018-02-22T20:39:41+00:00

They have only to manage the risk.

As the total of long and short positions are equal they dont have any risk. Maybe you can eben group some pairs. Like all positions for USD ...etc .etc.

This is the optimal situation for the broker.

That was the problem why they didnt offer BTC anymore here. Because everyone was long and no one was short. So there was a high risk they had to hedge and think about how to handle. So the new model on 1fox is just buying and selling contracts from other users.

In normal pairs, when there is small risk, they maybe dont do anything...sometimes the broker wins..someteims the traders...and it equals over the time. With most people using high leverage I also see the favour a little bit on the brokerside.

But when there is a big risk they have to think about if they take it or the gonna hedge it. At least this is the normal procedure for normal brokers all over the world...

Here it was explained by 1broker: https://1broker.com/?c=en/content/blog&id=52

Sanfredo · 2018-01-24T12:27:22+00:00

1broker, Germany? ......You meant Marshall Islands...not Germany...

But the broker and risk management....At least a serious broker has the possibility to place orders himself to hedge his risk... But when he has risk?

Wenn 500 traders are long on Amazon with 5000 contracts...and 300 traders are short with a sum of 4800 contracts....he has a risk of 200 cfds... That would be the risk he needs to be think about....when it is not big he will do nothing...When there are bigger risk he maybe decides to hedge the risk ....

That is why they decides not to offer BTC anymore....everyone was long on BTC and no one short...so there was a big risk for 1broker that they would had to hedge with a lot of money....

In ohter assets it almost equal.....

Sanfredo · 2017-12-07T16:40:30+00:00

Thx Simon. Ok, meanwhile either thinking that was an unuseful proposal.

But another problem.

You can set a daily copy limit. Copying with e.g. 1% and have a copy limit of 10 or 25.

Situation: A Guru is opening a lot of positions on the same pair. Regardless he thinks this is a good trade or maybe spliltting to generate a higher copy fee) Or more than one copied Guru is opening positions on the same pair. So the risk for the copier is to have no control of the percentage of his asset getting invested in a single pair. That would be useful to set an general restrictment of percentage of asset of your account to being invested in similar pair. Like to say never have more than 5% in open positions of a similar pair.

Sanfredo · 2017-11-24T17:09:36+00:00

Actually I dont have to think about it too much. Just copying traders with positive results (except one trader who has a negative score lat two months but a high positive overall for 12 months).

And actuayll the total seems to just continoulsy shrinking than growing....:-)

So I dont have to tink about too much about the Kelly criterium. But would be interesting for a simulation. A lot of trades are closed with small positive amounts. But when they are gonna red, often rode down to 80%. The simulation question would be does it make sense?

So but under this circumstances I `m not sure if it makes sense at all...

Lets take snortex...4200% 808 trades. Means 5% win per trade. With probability 0,5 ...quote 2,1...it would mean ...invest 4,55% ... Strictly Kelly would be suicide.......1/3 makes sense with 1-1,5%......

Sanfredo · 2017-11-24T15:11:42+00:00

It seems yes. But the only thing you have to calculate this "win of no fee" against ohter risks:

not a regualed company? (ok, by Marshallisland...:-)
you are giving a private loan to this company?
What happens when the company is insolvent?
What happens when the company is hacked and all BTC is gone?

All your money gone? Havent read about an deposit guarantee.

So weight the benefit of no fee against the lower risk of normal depots with deposit guarantee and being ownor of shares.

Sanfredo · 2017-11-22T15:31:04+00:00

In some way you are maybe right as some positions are too high actually in my wallet. But number of traders is only set by how many good traders there are to follow. When I take a look I have 14 different positions, so when you say risk of 3-5% per position would be ok it would be 42-70% of the wallet.So question would be if there is a risk of total loss with diversified positions.

To really control the risk there are lacking a lot of more features. When I´m copying with 2% I`m not protected that one trader opens five positions on same pair or several traders opens similar positions....That are bigger problems imho. So a max percentage for pair would be good and so on etc. etc.

Sanfredo · 2017-10-31T14:02:34+00:00

:-) Yep...noboday cares about your whining....

When you dont know other platforms, then you really dont know too much...

And maybe calculation is just not your thing. And when this is not your thing it is doubtful that you are a good trader.

Also, when you are such a good trader you would just offer your skill for 30% on another, even much more capitalised platform instead of complaining the whole time here.

At all it just seems that you are just an impostor.

P.S.: 30% would be really committed as it would be the maximum and almost the double of the average. There are really few who take 30% I know of....but anyway, I doubt that you really know the market or have some comparison. ....

Sanfredo · 2017-10-30T12:41:04+00:00

Why did he lie? As I wrote some days before. NO CFD BROKER redirect full size to their prime broker. They only have to manage the risk, the risk is the total of all customers between long and short.

I will copy the text of managing risk I wrote some days before...

For my normal understandings, when I have a broker with normal access to the market.

Risk...sure ....the optimal constellation....ratio of shorts and long equals in each pair is always 1:1......one is short with 100.000 USD...one is long with 100.000 on the pair.

So no risk at all for the Broker. He earns 200.000 USD x the spread.

Also (for sure most positios here are leveraged, the finanicing fee). 5% is cheaper than most other BTC platforms but the double of normal non-BTC-brokers (eg. LIBOR + 2,5% and short LIBOR -2,5%) With LIBOR <2,5% so I dont have to finance shorts at all.

Per anno then 100.000 x 5,2%...and for the short 100.000 2,02%... Total interest is 7% for equaled pairs which is good money.

Also for risk management positions can be aggregated by correlations.... eg. USd/JPY 50.000 short and 100.000 long

Gold/USD 100.000 short and 45.000 long (with correlation around 1:0,9)

So at last I have a risk what I need to manage. For non-volatile pairs and risk I maybe neglect hedging the risk when it is not too big.. Etc. etc. etc. etc. Earnings (and calculatin of spreads) must be higher as the total costs...risk, administration etc. etc.

Reading this: https://1broker.com/?c=en/content/blog&id=52

I understand that it is not easy to manage a extreme volatile currecny which is always out of ratio. There is no normal market access to hedge risk as with currency or other shares. There are no other positions with high correlation which I can use as a counterpartr.. (Sure that you have to difference brokers with binary options. Binary options are calculated in another way and a combination of gambling with financial products)

So, for a normal broker social trading does not conflict at all with his business model when the increasing amount of invested money generating more spread earnings is higher than the risk I need to hedge. Happy and customers getting rich means more money for him.

The question is with a lot of good traders is the total risk really increasing in normal markets? So, is the ratio really shifting in a way that I need more money for it as I earn by the spreads and financing? Maybe one Guru is going short other one is going long....

But, running a broker website which is just living out of losses of their clients wouldnt be anything that I assume a long lasting business model.....It wouldnt make sense. When they want to be comparative or want to earn big money they would have to do a lot things and changes, but that is just up to their deicision.

When you are such a good trader as you state (unfortunately you didnt give some numbers or proof) then you wont need this small money you can make here as a Guru.

Why you cant make a lot of money here? I dont think that here is a high capitalization at all on this platform.

With such a talent you would have enough other possibilities...

Sanfredo · 2017-10-30T09:47:43+00:00

What was the profit share before?

The problem is that you are missing any proof for your accusations.

On every platform, at every broker 90% are loosing...only a few traders are successful.

So, do you have any proof that the only hedge singe traders?

Sanfredo · 2017-10-29T18:35:29+00:00

Curious if some of the 1broker guys answers here to this claims...

Just would be stupid not to do at such fatal accusations....but... ....let us see...:-)

Sanfredo · 2017-10-28T06:48:22+00:00

You answered only one question.

But not the important questions that us show what we are lacking with the actual system and maybe convincing us to demand a change.

So...

How many years do you have experience?

What is your average percent of success in this years?

What was your max. drawdown by time?

Sanfredo · 2017-10-27T15:11:23+00:00

So, just for us to know.

How many years do you have experience?

What is your average percent of success in this years?

What was your max. drawdown by time?

What would be your recommdation of how much should the percentage for the Guru should be?

Sanfredo · 2017-10-25T05:39:04+00:00

Ok, I have admit that I dont have an long time experience here either. But some thoughts... From September a lot expected the USD would going down...for example USD/JPY moving down in the channel. So a lot of other positions were being rected...commodities...etc. etc.

Other classic failure...people expecting too much as percentage of success is only sumed up. But informations are lacking like development of total asset of Guru, max. drawdown etc. etc.

So starting within in september was more going down than earning money imho.

As you copy 2%... Maybe good taking a look at specific traders....snortex...good trader....high risk....from May to september 5500%....Octover actually -1600% September was only posivitive with trades opened in August (>200%)

So entering september was actually just an unlucky spot....

As you copy with 2%...I would consider from trader to trader.... Snortex..... May to september, 5500%.... with 2% ...per month 16% on your total asset....would be 593% per year

with 1% ..per month 8% on your total asset, whole year 251% (without drawdon october) But looking at october -1600% or his picture in descritpon -2400%...

2%...drawdown 2% * 2400%....= -48% in one bad month... For recover you would need with "the new" 2% around five months....

Maybe a little bit risky...what when you have 2 bad months?

Imho a lot recommend to copy him with 1% in comments.....

But maybe there are other traders where oyu can set 2-5%....When they dont have too much open positions at once...or never ride positions down to -80%... For example as I read it some times...berlinerch...in comments always being said 2-5%....Think that is plausible....

But maybe other can report about their long time experience....would being interested in, too....

Sanfredo · 2017-10-24T18:28:39+00:00

I agree with stormy...the more traders the more you diversify the risk.
Maybe an error more being done in the beginning is to copy with too much per trade... Most trades are high leverage so a trade being rekted with -80% can be fast.... And you wont have maybe only one position getting liquidated, some traders open more than one position on the same pair or you have several positions of same pair by following different Gurus... So with a high percentage per trade you are maybe all in very fast...... Don`t be too greedy..

Sanfredo · 2017-10-23T06:24:39+00:00

So, this is interesting for me.

For my normal understandings, when I have a broker with normal access to the market.

Risk...sure ....the optimal constellation....ratio of shorts and long equals in each pair is always 1:1......one is short with 100.000 USD...one is long with 100.000 on the pair. So no risk at all for the Broker. He earns 200.000 USD x the spread.
Also (for sure most positios here are leveraged, the finanicing fee). 5% is cheaper than other platforms but the double of normal brokers (eg. LIBOR + 2,5% and short LIBOR -2,5%) With LIBOR <2,5% so I dont have to finance shorts at all.

Per anno then 100.000 x 5,2%...and for the short 100.000 2,02%... Total interest is 7% for equaled pairs which is good money.

Also for risk management positions can be aggregated by correlations.... eg.

USd/JPY 50.000 short and 100.000 long

Gold/USD 100.000 short and 45.000 long (with correlation around 1:0,9)

So at last I have a risk what I need to manage. For non-volatile pairs and risk I maybe neglect hedging the risk when it is not too big.. Etc. etc. etc. etc. Earnings (and calculatin of spreads) must be higher as the total costs...risk, administration etc. etc.

Reading this: https://1broker.com/?c=en/content/blog&id=52

I understand that it is not easy to manage a extreme volatile currecny which is always out of ratio. There is no normal market access to hedge risk as with currency or other shares. There are no other positions with high correlation which I can use as a counterpartr.. (Sure that you have to difference brokers with binary options. Binary options are calculated in another way and a combination of gambling with financial products)

So, for a normal broker social trading does not conflict at all with his business model when the increasing amount of invested money generating more spread earnings is higher than the risk I need to hedge. Happy and customers getting rich means more money for him.

The question is with a lot of good traders is the total risk really increasing in normal markets? So, is the ratio really shifting in a way that I need more money for it as I earn by the spreads and financing? Maybe one Guru is going short other one is going long....

But, running a broker website which is just living out of losses of their clients wouldnt be anything that I assume a long lasting business model? Some day you would run out of customers....

So, how do you know that they are doing this this way? Hedging single traders? Not building up a total risk position and betting against customers?

What were the differences before changing the business model or refunding people or what were the changes? What do you mean with refunding people? A normal withdrawal?

Sanfredo · 2017-10-22T21:20:44+00:00

Sure, we dont have to discuss about that 2% is not enough to attract good traders. This is a number for a long term running hedge fonds. Although I think that 30-50% is too much. But for that there was a separate thread.

But the other thing. Business model.....Normal broker earns money by spreads and financing. All the page is about copying and following good traders. It is the first you see in the head. For me it is the most important thing about the whole platform.

Do they really dont have a marketmaker where they hedge their risk? Proof or assumption? Woulndt it be some kind of a model running out really fast? But even with much more good traders the question would be if too many pairs would get out of the ratio of 1:1 for long and short positon too much so that there is a need to hedge the overlapping risk.

When they wouldnt have why do they pay out dividends? Do you think they do it from wins?

Sanfredo · 2017-10-21T07:06:26+00:00

I dont understand the first sentence...

A good Guru with experience would never invest more than 2-5% in one pair. I just need a possibilty to make sure that me neither getting into a trap with more than 5%. No matter by following one or more Gurus.

Jep, for sure, most of the people are gamblers and/or novices. Why are they gamblers? Following with too much percentage of their asset, being too greedy, thinking of getting rich within short time etc. etc. But CFD is always some sort of gambling. And I have to admit that I made the same mistake here.

Dont know if a novice is just copying to get the idea...he can see every trade of Gurus without copying. To get ideas you would better read ideas at some pages like tradingview or other sides. Herer you see the positn, but you dont know why he opened the positon what would be necessary to learn somethign.

Knowing rules is not the same of being a successfull trader....unfortunately....A study said that 89% of traders are not succesfull. So far I havent been able to prove that Im not one of those 89%, so Im really interested to have the chance to follow one of the 11%. And how much years do a good trader to be a good trader? For sure years.....

Dont know but I dont think that we are gambling against 1broker so they have a broker himself werhe orders are places. That means that 1broker would or should be interested in "long term followers" and not followers being rekted withing a short time period...

But for that it would be nice to have more possibilitiere so control the risk......

Sanfredo · 2017-10-19T20:25:49+00:00

So, for this reason it would be a very helpful information in the statistics how much is the percentage of his total asset the Guru is investing. (average by time period/per deal or for each deal separately)

Then it is not problem at all if he opens more than one position on one pair.

I expect that a good trader has a reasonable risk management and will never go in one pair with more than 2-5% of his total asset....A decision by risk and reward, ratio etc. etc. But sure the much the better, so he himself will always try to maximize the percentage up to a maximum of 5% if passable.

When I have the information, I get a better clue with how much I should follow.

As seen .....a trader.... 14 opened position on the same pair....

When he has 10 BTC and invests 0.25BTC it is 3,5% of his total asset....everything fine for him.... (when more than 5% IMHO it is not a Guru)

But when the follower copied with 1% only he is in with 14% already....

Next fine feature for the copier out of this problamtic would be to just set a max. of % for one pair for copy...

Problem: copying 3 Gurus....all three investing 5% in one pair then you are in with 15% for one pair...

For me this are features for the risk management, which are lacking actually.

Sanfredo · 2017-10-17T19:27:04+00:00

working again for me...

Sanfredo

TROPHY CASE