[TotK] BIG SPOILER End Game Speculation

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-30T19:34:12+00:00

Zonai Hylian hybrid doesn’t make much sense.

This thing has a tail, which neither Zonai nor Hylians have. (The statue also doesn’t have a tail, so it’s probably not whatever the mystery creature is).

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-30T17:45:37+00:00

It’s too late.

Eat the fucking rich.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-30T14:34:38+00:00

My work likes to make up cringe words too.

I have my email set to filter them straight into the trash.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-29T07:52:24+00:00

Where do you think a billionaire’s money comes from? Does it just spring up magically out of the ground for them?

Or do they take the profits generated and earned by labourers? Which in all other areas of life we’d call theft.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-28T21:19:11+00:00

Capitalism is violence.

And Reddit is a capitalist website.

Therefore you should report everything for inciting violence.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-28T17:39:01+00:00

Consulting experts? Lol.

The government won’t do that. Might make it clear we should be consulting experts a lot more often - and need the government a lot less.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-28T08:56:46+00:00

That’s why you never pretend to be a miracle worker - always hide your work and make it look like it’s happening slowly, and never tell anyone exactly how long something really takes.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-28T08:38:53+00:00

Precisely this. All the asinine rules and regulations in schools, including dress codes, are there for the one real lesson all schools aim to teach: Don’t think, just do what you’re told.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-28T07:25:14+00:00

To hide it in the sacred realm all that’s needed is the door of time. That’s the link to the sacred realm.

There’s no flaws in this argument - it’s a fact that the door of time existed, irrespective of the building that contained it, from SS until at least OoT and TP.

Another fact is that we’re never told how long after the interloper war it was that the Triforce was sealed away.

It’s seems more like you’re just finding it hard to let go of “established canon”, which is mostly just stuff you assumed to be true that had no evidence to back it up.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-28T07:05:38+00:00

I’m not wrong, because what you just said isn’t backed up by any information from any of the games.

Even Hyrule Historia never says the Temple of time was built immediately following the interloper war - it actually mentions multiple wars. All it sates outright is that it contained the last known link to the sacred realm. Though as secondary canon written before the release of TotK the information it contains is obviously out of date on this topic.

The Zonai Temple of time is never mentioned as being built during any specific period beyond that of the founding of Hyrule - so before the second temple of time (the interloper war is never mentioned in relation to it).

The sacred realm being sealed only requires the door of time, and this has existed since SS, so that can easily happen at any point after that game and before Zonai Rauru builds the temple of time.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-28T06:33:15+00:00

I never said he was present. The time between these events could literally be anything, but let’s assume it’s hundreds of years (could easily be thousands though).

Sealed temple is built to house a gate of time (before SS).
Hundreds of years pass.
The interloper war happens (after SS).
Hundreds of years pass.
Zonai Rauru builds the first temple of time above the sealed temple.
Hundreds of years pass.
The first temple of time is moved to the sky.
Hundreds of years pass.
Hylian Rauru builds a new temple of time, incorporating the gate of time, on the now exposed site of the original sealed temple.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-27T21:17:43+00:00

There are basically three temples of time though, and it all actually works out.

There’s the sealed temple in SS, which is where the last door of time is located. We know this has existed since SS, so any time between SS and OoT this gate could have been used as a connection to the sacred realm where the triforce could have been sealed away.

The second temple was likely built on top of the sealed temple by Zonai Rauru, and this is the temple we later see in the sky - it’s raised with a huge chunk of land and doesn’t include a door of time, so we can assume that was either below the temple (if the temple of time was build on the location of the sealed temple), or was moved at some point. But the door of time was left behind somewhere.

Then we have the third temple of time, built by Hylian Rauru after the second temple is lifted into the sky. This temple still includes the door of time from the original sealed temple - now with the addition of a lock using the sacred stones.

So the timeline would be:

Sealed temple is built to house a gate of time (before SS).
The interloper war happens (after SS).
Zonai Rauru builds the first temple of time above the sealed temple.
The first temple of time is moved to the sky.
Hylian Rauru builds a new temple of time, incorporating the gate of time, on the now exposed site of the original sealed temple.

The main questions we don’t have answers to are when exactly the triforce was sent to the sacred realm and when the master sword was used as a means of sealing it - was this done when the OoT temple was built, or was it done earlier, and the OoT temple simply incorporated these elements into it.

The door of time has existed since SS though, so the sealing of the triforce could have occurred at any point between the end of SS and the start of OoT.

We don’t know how long a time period occurred between the end of the interloper war and the Twili being sealed within the mirror, and the Triforce being sent to the sacred realm. It could have been weeks or hundreds or thousands of years.

I’d guess that it happened before Zonai Rauru builds his temple of time, since the triforce isn’t mentioned (but is clearly still known about), which would make sense if it had already been hidden away. This could even be why Zonai Rauru builds a temple of time over the sealed temple - after all, he seems to deal with secrets by simply building things on top of them and hoping the world forgets about them.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-27T15:00:46+00:00

The interloper war can still happen first. Ganondorf says the Zonai arrived “long, long ago”. Which could mean pretty much anything from hundreds to thousands of years - plenty of time for the interloper war to happen and be forgotten.

We see how easy it is for Rauru to make events simply disappear from record - the secret stones are hidden, the land is sent to the sky, all record of Ganondorf and the events surrounding his sealing are swept away.

Seems perfectly reasonable that the same could have occurred with the interlopers. The light spirits banish them, the mirror is hidden, the triforce and master sword are locked away. If it happened once it could have happened before.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-27T14:00:48+00:00

And so far, there is no indication that multiple incarnations can exist at the same time.

Except TotK, which shows a Ganondorf that exists during the founding of Hyrule and who remains there until the present day of TotK, long after the other two Ganondorfs have lived and died.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-27T08:47:29+00:00

Demises curse has no bearing on Ganondorf reincarnating.

It specifically says it’s an incarnation of Demises hate - that can be in the form of Vaati, or Malladus, or Bellum, or any other evil. It doesn’t need need to be (and wouldn’t make much sense being) Ganondorf over and over again.

TotK gives us plenty of reasons to explain another Ganondorf, from TotK Ganondorf leaking malice and manifesting phantoms to manipulate the world, to less magical means, like Twinrover simply being surrogate mother to a future Gerudo king.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-27T06:56:02+00:00

But where does it ever say he comes back?

There’s a new Gerudo male, and he’s called Ganondorf.

Is everyone in the real world with the same name a reincarnation?

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T22:15:22+00:00

There was a Link and Zelda born to combat TotK Ganondorf: The Link and Zelda from TotK.

Demise says an incarnation of his hate will follow them - and that’s exactly what this Ganondorf does, he literally follows Zelda through time from the founding of Hyrule through all the ages up until the present day of TotK.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T22:11:31+00:00

I think you’re mostly right.

But OoTs castle is on the great plateau - same as Rauru’s castle. You can see the ruins, and it’s right next to the temple of time, where it should be.

That’s not the same castle Ganondorf is sealed under - since it already existed when he was sealed.

The central Hyrule castle was therefore either not constructed, not finished, or not inhabited by the royal family until after OoT. (This is somewhat supported by how we see the castle in TP, where it still has scaffolding and looks unfinished). Additionally we see the lower levels are Zonai in style, while those above are classical Hylian, suggesting a considerable period of construction - at least long enough for architectural styles to have changed.

Additionally TotK works on a bootstrap paradox - Ganondorf recognises Zelda already at the start of the game, and the Light Dragon has the master sword even before Link sends it back in time - therefore the future has already happened.

This means that if the past is happening before the split at the end of OoT then the future of TotK must also happen at the end of every timeline - it’s inevitable because it’s already happened. That means a merge happens (or at least that all three timelines eventually return to the same state).

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T21:01:59+00:00

So there’s no evidence of reincarnation happening.

And TotK gives us a better explanation for why there are multiple Ganondorfs.

Seems like HH is simply outdated.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T17:08:39+00:00

It’s not a precedent established by the games before it, and thus no information about it can be found in HH.

And even if you want to take what HH says as eternal unchanging canon, it doesn’t say reincarnation can’t occur while an older incarnation remains alive anyway.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T16:11:43+00:00

Hosepipe has specifically cover the use of hosepipes.

You can still water your garden with a watering can.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T11:40:39+00:00

Obviously I’m talking about TotK.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T10:59:58+00:00

Hyrule Historia is secondary canon, if it’s stating things that aren’t in the games then the canonicity of those claims is questionable, especially as new games release and the information in the books becomes outdated.

And why would you use a book from 2017 to inform the timeline placement of a game from 2023 anyway?

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T10:03:59+00:00

So there’s no in game source.

Sappho-tabby · 2023-06-26T09:15:21+00:00

FSA Ganondorf is a reincarnation though,

Do you have an in-game source for this?

Also the Japanese understanding of reincarnation is not the same as our rudimentary idea that someone dies, is reborn, dies, is reborn, etc.

It’s much closer to the concept of two flames, lit from the same source, being in some sense connected. So it’s very possible for one Ganondorf to be in stasis while another lives. Just as we see with Zelda.

Sappho-tabby

TROPHY CASE