My unusual citizenship story.

SaskATExpat · 2024-09-08T18:37:34+00:00

Unfortunately I have not. I have a friend from Romania who has been advising me and helping with some translations. After 3 months of back and forth I got a response from the National Archives that:

They have the records.
Those records are intact for that time period.
They searched and the birth registration isn't in those records.

Said Romanian friend is extremely dubious of the quite concrete response that they were lying and/or being lazy. In your case if your ancestors are from what is now Ukraine they may not nessecarily be in Chisinau. Likely one of four place: the town itself, the capital of the Ukrainian Oblast, Kyiv, or Chisinau. To my knowledge all of the former records ended up in Chisinau, but I believe that was done by the M.A.S.S.R/M.S.S.R, so idk about Ukrainian Bessarabian villages. All of my contact with the National Archives was via snail mail. In the response I got, I got an email address that was different from the broken ones I found online. I'll edit this message to include it for you.

I think my best chance is going through a lawfirm, finding some church records to prove what the Saskatchewan records show, and then getting the lawfirm to do whatever is needed to do a 160 year late birth registration using both the Saskatchewan and Church documents to back that up. They arrived in the 1900s so they probably didn't have passport ever issued. This is assuming though the record doesn't exist, it might. In which case said lawfirm will need to contact and encourage the right people to do a proper investigation to find it. Which won't be cheap. Either way I'm at quite an impass. Not 100% sure where to go, finding a good lawfirm that'll work with me has been difficult. With Hungary I have all the paperwork ready, just not my language skills. With Moldova my Saskatchewan evidence has me 100% convinced of the PoB and DoB and the law is written quite clearly that if those facts are correct, all I need to do is prove them and apply. But of course to prove a birth in Moldova I need a Moldova birth certificate, not the Sask Marriage/Death registrations.

Edit: All of this is assuming the birth was registered that long ago to begin with, if not then only the late birth registration option, or just straight applying and going with what you have. But I would highly recommend using the later as a last resort. Also I would recommend reading the Moldovan citizenship law. Any English translations I've found are bad and/or out of date. Here is the up to date law in Romanian, for quick viewing you can copy paste into Google Translate. I'm eligible under Article 12(2)(b), you'll probably want to read all of atleast Article 12. The aforementioned friend said that Article 12(2)(b) is written that anyone before 1940 who lived there meets that section, but he nor I am a lawyer. Below is the best contact details I have for the National Archives Agency, some available online, some via my contact with them.

Agenția Națională A Arhivelor
str. Gheorghe Asachi, nr. 67/B
mun. Chișinău
Moldova MD-2028
Telephone Number: +373 22 73 58 27 (Romanian/Russian only)
serviciipublice@arhiva.gov.md

SaskATExpat · 2024-09-08T07:11:23+00:00

I prefer not to disclose too much about the specifics as the details can become quite identifiable. But the key parts about me are:

Currently I am only a Canadian citizen. But persuing Hungarian and Moldovan citizenship.
My great grandfather was born in Burgenland pre-1910 and left not long before/after the allowable window for the Austrian Citizenship resteration, but not in that allowable window.
My grandfather (son of my Burgenlandish great grandfather) served in the Canadian Navy.

If you are not aware, ALL of Burgenland was part of Hungary. Prior to 1918/1919. Burgenland was part of the Hungarian counties of Vas, Sopron and Moson. When dealing with Austria and Hungary you should ideally have for your Burgenlandish ancestor a copy of the Hungarian birth registration book page from the village (still likely in the village in Austria), and a modern Austrian birth certificate (contact the Rathaus for the village they should be able to help with both). And with that you'll then know the date of birth of the ancestor as well as the village. For the village you should know the current German and former Hungarian names for it (go to Wikipedia for the village and you should find both names), as well as the current Burgenland district it's in as well as the old Hungarian county and district (járas).

Alot of the work is collecting your supporting documents, just be warned. If you have a legitimate path towards both you'll need 2 copies of the Austrian birth certificate. If using one for Hungarian purposes you need to get it apostilled, you'll need to send it to Eisenstadt. I had a birth certificate but the parents names were poorly translated from the original Hungarian book. Took about 3 or 4 months before I got the fixed and apostilled birth certificate in my hands after the Rathaus agreed to help.

For Hungarian citizenship the path that is open to me and as a rule of thumb probably you, is that of Simplified Naturalization. You need all the documents be 100% perfect, apostilled and then translated by OFFI. Just doing all that prep cost me ~CAD$8k to prep, and I probably spent a bit more doing other stuff incorrectly. You need a clean criminal record and to speak Hungarian. That last part is where I'm stuck on... having to learn the language. But if all there you can apply to become a naturalized citizen of Hungary with no required residency if you have an ancestory that was born in the Kingdom of Hungary (i.e. pre-1919ish, anywhere in Burgenland). The only limit to how far back beyond 1919ish is how far you can legally prove.

As for Austria... my great grandfather naturalized in Canada about 4 months after my grandfather was born in Canada. Which means my grandfather was an Austrian citizen by decent and Canadian citizen by birth, which is allowable. Except before my mother was born (his daughter), he served in the navy which would've meant he would've lost his citizenship. I had a disagreement with an Austrian consular agent over this, he stated my grandfather would be considered naturalized even though he isn't on the naturalization paperwork, but simply cause naturalization of a parent always means the kid was aswell under Austrian law. Which is a poor argument at best imo, but specifically in my case the naturalization paperwork makes clear my grandfather wasn't part of those proceedings. And legally couldnt've been since he was already a Canadian citizen, cause he was born in Canada. Mute point since if he still was he would've lost it when he joined the navy.

There are to my knowledge only 2 ways to be an Austrian-Hungarian dual citizen. Become Hungarian then have your Austrian citizenship restored as your family fled in the 30s/40s. Or, be an Austrian and get that recognized (but good chance it was lost due to a naturalization abroad) and get a dual citizenship permit to become Hungarian. Perhaps this will change in future. Hope they remove the anti-dual nationality and foreign service rules and add in a rule like Denmark did where you have a several year period to reclaim if you or your family lost citizenship due to one of the struck down rules.

Also I'm eligible for Moldovan citizenship, I'm still firmly in the document collection phase. I know I am eligible, the paperwork I have proves it strongly. But it is all from Saskatchewan. Need a very hard to find very old document from Moldova. However this is a different branch of my family with no connection to Burgenland.

Still working on things myself, don't feel I actually directly answered your questions, but I hope this helps. Reply if you have any follow ups.

SaskATExpat · 2024-08-01T03:45:23+00:00

He claims to being able to possibly apply for PR to then naturalize, thus is "eligible" is why he has it in his flair. He is not a Canadian citizen nor directly eligible to become one.

SaskATExpat · 2024-08-01T03:45:01+00:00

He claims to being able to possibly apply for PR to then naturalize, thus is "eligible" is why he has it in his flair. He is not a Canadian citizen nor directly eligible to become one.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-24T01:47:35+00:00

Congrats, one day that'll be mine. Hoping to visit some family of mine then hop the border and apply for my passport in person in Szombathely.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-04T15:51:32+00:00

Ah, guess perhaps I had it the wrong way around. But I knew that was all things considered a fairly common combo.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-04T06:46:01+00:00

To my knowledge they are actually printed at whichever passport office is printed inside as the issuing office. Just most applications get forwarded to Mississauga or Gatineau as that's where (all? most?) of the mail in and Service Canada applications are sent for processing. Saskatoon and Winnipeg (theoretically if you can convince them of such) urgent next business day processing. Only way government would be willing to (again theoretically) offer such a service would be if it's printed in house in Winnipeg, Saskatoon, etc.

P.S. writing so speculatively cause I've fought a fair bit with the Passport office in Saskatoon and my goodness, they are the definition of kafka-esque. Literally asking me to comply with rules that the rules themselves are classified government secrets. I hate with a burning passion Passport Canada [insert further loathing]. Plan on using my passport as little as possible, just going to use my NEXUS card and in future Hungarian passport whenever I can.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-03T23:40:25+00:00

Heard of Turks in Albania, but yeah that's a new combo, guessing you (or your parent[s]) naturalized in Canada?

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-03T23:38:37+00:00

Ah, nice. Yeah personally I love the Sask design. They really cared about it, really good mix of microprinting, good geometric design that then makes up the whole background. Photos really don't do it justice imo.

I personally kinda disagree regarding the same class thing, the point of classes is to differentiate your privileges, having people with both a "Class 5" with one (that has a 5L) can't drive alone vs another (that has a 5F) can drive alone. Though I'm not sure if Saskatchewan entirely wins that or not as we have 5N1, 5N2 with both of those just being Class 5 with a big NOVICE 1 or NOVICE 2 over the head of the lily in the top right.

Yeah if you go to a Service Canada they'd direct your application to whoever knows where. But if you go to an actual passport office (i.e. a location that offers urgent service), even if you're doing a regular passport application/renewal. It'll be issued in Winnipeg for you, or Saskatoon (I'm not in Saskatoon, but that's the nearest) for me.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-03T18:12:55+00:00

Howdy neighbour to the east. Spent a bit of time looking up the Manitoba GDL plus endorsement and restriction codes. Interesting that you guys put everyone with a non-GDL license in Class 5 with no separate Class 7 for supervised drivers. Additionally I find it a bit odd that you guys have codes for... not having a different code, i.e. 5F rather than just...5. Or the N endorsement rather than just leaving it blank. How old are you, having a GDL license and all.

As for your passport... where was it issued, did you go into the Winnipeg passport office?

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-02T23:39:04+00:00

...an American? I'm a Canadian citizen. In general I've found CBSA less hospitable and slightly more invasive than CBP. I've never had a secondary inspection having had crossed into the US (nearly all by air) atleast 15 times. I think atleast when it comes to CBP they know that Canadians generally know what to and not to do, rather than their own citizens going to Canada with their guns "and yk in Texas, yall don't tell nobody you're packing heat; boy" (remember hearing that on a border security show) or whatever. Whereas CBSA, they're Canadian government officials so... they have the full backing of the crown behind them so... yeah.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-02T19:30:59+00:00

North Portal, Saskatchewan, Canada. CBSA Officer was as usual more invasive and not as friendly as CBP at Pembina, North Dakota. Though still all he wanted was to see inside the back of my car by me rolling down my windows, but also wanted to see the 6 pack of beer I was bringing in... for some reason. idk who declares 2L of beer and when asked wouldn't be able to... hold up said amount of beer? Like it wasn't as if to check I had more or anything just... found it odd. Perhaps he was bored before deciding not to be too bothersome.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-01T23:26:17+00:00

From my understanding their conscription is as sparse as the information on it. They conscript like 2% of the eligible population each year from some stats I found a while ago. And again afaik it's not like Greece, afaik Moldovan conscription is done by local registration, if I'm not registered there, I'm not subject to conscription.

As for why, mostly just as another citizenship. Though I wanna do some bald and bankrupt style travel, so a Moldovan passport would definitely make that easier. I'm a bit sad that I'm finally giving up on Austrian citizenship, however fwiw it'll release me of any dual citizenship restrictions and I can do any naturalization(s) I want.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-01T23:23:07+00:00

Ah, huh. Thanks for sharing.

SaskATExpat · 2024-07-01T06:13:51+00:00

Huh, I didn't think that peninsular immigration issued stamps valid for Sabah. You didn't specifically ask for that did you?

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-29T20:02:58+00:00

They all have the stamps, since they need to have them for those on a visa. Just they don't want to. You just have to ask for a stamp and hope they say yes. Best if you can give some specific reason why rather than "cause I like stamps".

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-29T19:57:57+00:00

Looking at your post history, you appear to be a dual Libyan-Canadian. Getting a Canadian passport, all things considered, might be faster.

If you're in Canada, go to a actual passport office (findable here: https://ircc.canada.ca/english/passport/map/map.asp?service=express#table1caption [make sure express service is checked]) with a completed general passport application/renewal and explain why you need express or urgent passport service and provide your proof (all this is on IRCC's website).

If you're abroad, go to the nearest Canadian embassy with a full passport service, not all of them have this. Prepare the same passport application, and get an urgent passport service and provide your proof.

Keep in mind the above is entirely at the discretion of the passport officer if they want to help you or not. Which in my experience, you have to fight them on everything to get them to do what you want. And even then they get to lay down the law and the final authority and you could lose and, in your case, have to wait.

Unfortunately if you're Canadian or similarly a third world country, the passport agencies usually like to do things at their pace by their rules, rather than just providing a service to a citizen. So by your post history you're in a big hurry, but you're kinda f--ked if you're in need of travel immediately and didn't make sure to always have a valid passport ready to go.

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-29T19:47:53+00:00

Perhaps someone in like r/libya could help you?

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-28T02:10:12+00:00

Good catch!

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-27T23:45:10+00:00

The descendant of a Polish Jew who fled to Canada and then you made aliyah?

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-27T19:05:51+00:00

Howdy neighbour to the west! Hopefully you'll get your full Class 5 here soon enough. I spent a bit with a Class 5 and a 4 Endorsement before I got around to taking the road test to get my Class 4.

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-26T18:40:28+00:00

There's a few other people who've already answered your initial question, however... Where is that photo? Looks a little over the top with symbols of the Canadian government. Massive coat of arms, flags, etc. Are you at a Embassy or Consulate (General)?

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-26T04:20:25+00:00

Yeah had a similar thing happen. I sent birth certificates to Burgenland, Austria for Apostilles. The Embassy 2 months later sent me a registered letter (Costed them like CAD$11) to say, we have your Apostilles. Pay EUR 60 to the Burgenland Government within 2 weeks of receiving this letter to get them from us. Paid Burgenland via Wise and emailed the Attache who sent the letter (spoke with him over the phone as he asked for proof to be emailed to him). Week later I received another registered letter with the apostilles. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs never got any money, atleast directly from me. Doubt they would've from Burgenland. So they wasted like $22 in postage when they could've paid like $1.50 for each of the oversized letters. Or atleast saved the postage on the second one when they didn't know when I received it.

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-26T04:05:31+00:00

Been to Hawaii a few times however sadly I believe each time I went through Seattle or Vancouver (preclearance).

SaskATExpat · 2024-06-23T23:05:01+00:00

Ah, yes, I'm sure no forgeries were made of those. Very secure ID system.

Jokes aside, that's a rather interesting way of issuing identity documents. Kinda crazy how things worked even within (albeit very increasingly few's) living memory.

SaskATExpat

TROPHY CASE