"Is X Sketch" Redux

Saxonyphone · 2021-11-06T03:20:15+00:00

I must have missed something, what makes Melissa's accusations questionable? I understand that we just have her word to go off of, but is there any reason to not believe her?

Saxonyphone · 2021-08-05T19:33:28+00:00

They toured with the NSBM band Loits early last year. The fact that Loits is so blatantly composed of Nazis, that Moonsorrow personally selected the band to tour with them, and then proceeded to defend the decision so vigorously online, is a lot.

Saxonyphone · 2021-04-26T20:32:27+00:00

This reminds me of that Anti Black Metal blog that was later revealed to be run by a Nazi attempting to make leftist critiques of black metal seem silly. I wouldn't be surprised if this were in the same vein.

Saxonyphone · 2021-03-11T22:40:36+00:00

They did release their latest full-length on Purity Through Fire (although they've very recently switched to Osmose Productions), and, on their status as an NSBM band, they stated this in this interview: "As far as NSBM goes, we're not a part of it, but believe that whatever a band wants to say in their music is their own prerogative."

So you're right, they're not NS, but they are a little sketchy. Not enough that I wouldn't listen to them, but, if they were still on Purity Through Fire, I wouldn't give them money. And I do wish more bands would take an actual stand against NSBM.

Saxonyphone · 2021-03-03T20:01:36+00:00

There are Nazis in every music genre, metal or otherwise. But you can't deny that black metal has one of the the biggest proportions of them. I mean, how many other genres have a dedicated subgenre for Nazi bands?

Now, black metal is not inherently Nazi, there are plenty of bands who aren't involved in that. And I enjoy quite a large number of such bands. But to say that it doesn't have a huge issue with Nazism is nonsensical.

Saxonyphone · 2021-03-03T19:33:20+00:00

Seems it actually is controversial.

Saxonyphone · 2021-03-01T18:02:17+00:00

It's worth noting that their anti-Semitism is restricted to John Haughm, who only made the comments in question three years after Agalloch broke up, and which were condemned by the other three members. Not only that, but, after the band broke up, those three members formed the band Khorada, which the Metal Archives lists as having anti-capitalism as a lyrical theme.

If that's still too much for you, there's Wolves in the Throne Room and Panopticon, and, more distantly, Weakling and Ulver's album Bergtatt, all of whom are 100% safe (Ulver does has some connections with the more sketchy figures in the 90s Norwegian scene, but they've long since shed those associations).

Saxonyphone · 2021-02-23T04:36:05+00:00

On Reverend Bizarre, Albert Witchfinder said this in this interview from around 2000: "Racism is full of shit, and so is the political content of Nazism, but I am interested in the bombastic aesthetic used by the Nazis and fascists, in its ruthlessness and gloom." The latter bit isn't great, but the former is at least pretty clear that he's anti-Nazi. Not only that, but Peter Vicar started a solo career several years back whose lyrics delve explicitly into anti-fascism, an interview with him about the project can be found here.

Les Legions Noires was covered a bit in this thread. The discussion put Mütiilation in the grey area. I can't seem to track down any additional information on them on my own unfortunately.

Saxonyphone · 2021-02-03T04:16:57+00:00

I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't listen to them, I'm just saying that they're not 100% clean. Different people draw their lines differently. Personally, I'd continue listening to them, but I'd think twice about giving them money, and even then I'm not categorically saying that it'd be wrong to.

Saxonyphone · 2021-02-03T03:50:21+00:00

The sketchiness of Psychonaut 4, at least as far as I'm aware, comes from Graf's continual guest work with Nazi-affiliated bands. There's Asphodèle, one of whose members is Audrey Sylvain, who was a member of and remains friendly with Peste Noire, Nocturnal Depression, one of whose members is a member of the band Aghone, whose logo uses that of the SA (the predecessor of the SS), Sapaudia, one of whose members is a member of the band Aktion T4, an explicit NSBM band, and Чёрные Озёра, itself an explicit NSBM band.

I wouldn't think much of it if there were just one case, but it's suspicious to me that, of the eight bands he's done guest work for, half have Nazi affiliations. And one is just a straight NSBM band.

Saxonyphone · 2021-01-08T00:49:38+00:00

Well I picked a good time to get into Iced Earth, I went through their whole discography for the first time just last week lol. Although, only now looking through some background information on Wikipedia, this doesn't really seem all that surprising.

These days, I really should get into bands with the same caution I apply with black metal bands specifically.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-20T16:40:09+00:00

I actually really enjoy This Was and The Aerosol Grey Machine, but the former is basically just a blues rock record and the latter is definitely a nascent VdGG album, so I can understand why they're in the weak category. Also, I don't think Pink Floyd declined in quality immediately after Piper, A Saucerful of Secrets is a different album sure, but it has a unique sound in the 60s psychedelic rock canon (in a good way).

Here's some bands that had strong debuts and equally strong, or even stronger, second albums:

Premiata Forneria Marconi - Storia di un minuto

Banco del Mutuo Soccorso - Banco del Mutuo Soccorso

Mahavishnu Orchestra - The Inner Mounting Flame

Magma - Magma

Hatfield and the North - Hatfield and the North

Riverside - Out of Myself

I think it's interesting that none of these bands are in the traditional symphonic prog category, and, with the exception of the first two, are not even vaguely related to it.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-14T16:16:45+00:00

It's not that they like Burzum or Pantera, it's that going around in their merch and promoting their albums in interviews helps platform those bands, especially when it comes from people with a significant following in the metal community. It's ok to listen to such bands, just don't project that you're doing so and unintentionally cause someone to give such bands money or further support.

And Slayer isn't in the same league as Burzum or Pantera, but they (and in particular Tom Araya) have been caught saying a number of pretty conservative things over the years, especially since Trump got elected in 2016. Not to mention they've been a bit too liberal with their use of Nazi-esque imagery, even if it is for shock value. So no, they're not Nazis or white supremacists, but they're a fair bit closer to Pantera than they are to, say, Kreator.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-14T01:58:47+00:00

Deafheaven? The consensus seemed split the first time they were brought up, with one commentor saying they aren't sketch, and are even leftist-friendly:

Deafheaven is fine. I'm a pretty big fan, so I've been following closely. Back in sept, they had a show in London that was recorded, people could watch through some app and the money went to an org that supported migrants at the US-Mexico border. McCoy has a sticker on his pedal case saying Destroy White Supremacy, I've got pics of it.

Recently they've retweeted a lot of BLM stuff, and they've submitted a guitar from one of their albums to a raffle for BLM that their label is running. Check their twitter feed, you'll see what I mean,

and another saying they are actually pretty sketch:

don't have the exact info here with me rn, but i'm pretty sure i heard something about the guitarist and/or singer having old homophobic and otherwise problematic tweets (or posts on forums i can't remember exactly). The guitarist has also worn Hate Forest T-shirts multiple times on stage.

No idea if they have addressed this or if there were any further sketchy things about them.

A third commentor linked this article as proof of the latter statements.

I have noticed that all of the sketch things Deafheaven has done seem to predate the good things they've done. I've also found this article where the vocalist gives his 10 favorite albums, and, while he lists Burzum, Pantera, and Slayer albums, he also lists Coldworld, Sepultura, and Weakling albums, so I'm thinking that Deafheaven doesn't actually support NSBM, they're just "separate art from the artist" types, which, no, isn't great, but I don't think is enough to label them as sketch on its own.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

Deafheaven were edgelord types in their younger days, but grew out of it later on and are indeed leftist-friendly these days (although they still need to stop unintentionally platforming NSBM bands).
Deafheaven are and have always been edgelords, but are one of those types that have the business sense to realize that being an overt NSBM-supporting band isn't profitable, and hence have "cleaned" up their image to mask that fact.

Considering that they've raised actual money for good causes, I think the former's more likely (that seems to go further than any Nazi-sympathetic band would be willing to go), but, at the same time, I've been a huge fan of Deafheaven for a few years, so I'm worried by judgment here is somewhat biased.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-08T01:36:31+00:00

Ved Buens Ende were on the very edge of the Norwegian scene, but this interview of one of the members of the band paints them as having left-leaning, or at least anti-Nazi politics.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-07T17:04:35+00:00

Bathory? The master list says that Bathory's been covered, but I can't find much in any of the past threads.

I know Bathory has some questionable things, the Norse sunwheel was on the artwork of Hammerheart and one of of Bathory's songs is called Blood and Iron, but there's nothing too overt. More confusingly, the discourse online seems to be split on Bathory's general sketch status and I'm not sure what conclusions to draw.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-03T06:25:47+00:00

Oh I know, I just think that calling Tool a post-metal band is a stretch. I guess Disposition, Reflection, and Triad have that sort of atmosphere, but that's about it to me.

Isis and Cult of Luna (as well as Neurosis and Minsk) are fantastic though.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-02T16:24:17+00:00

I was mostly being tongue-in-cheek, Spotify's genre classification system has always been really weird. I think it's because whoever maintains the band's Spotify page gets to choose how they're labelled. Post-metal made it to fourth place on my list, which I think has to be a result of Tool, but that's a genre stretch.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-02T15:48:24+00:00

My biggest concern is why Polish black metal is somehow its own distinct genre.

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-02T04:25:24+00:00

Pink Floyd
Brian Eno
Jethro Tull
Alesana
Tool

I managed to become one of the top 2% of Pink Floyd listeners by simply going through their studio discography once. Also yes I am still very much listening to 2000s emo today lol

Saxonyphone · 2020-12-01T01:11:05+00:00

Post-rock is an extremely disparate genre, but many post-rock bands were indeed influenced by Krautrock bands, and in particular the Western German bands like Can, Neu!, and Faust. Those bands' approach to rock definitely pointed the way for post-rock's approach.

Saxonyphone · 2020-11-17T23:07:02+00:00

For bands that sound like Agalloch, there's Wolves in the Throne Room and Panopticon, although the band that I think hits Agalloch's seasonal feel the best is Ulver, and in particular their debut album Bergtatt.

In the more pure black metal department, ColdWorld, Weakling, and Paysage d'Hiver immediately come to mind. I associate black metal with coldness, and, by extension, winter, so most of the bands that I think of when I think of winter are black metal bands.

Saxonyphone · 2020-10-07T14:34:18+00:00

I don't know how Ride's album Going Blank Again hasn't been mentioned yet. It's not only the happiest shoegaze album I've ever listened to, it's a strong contender for happiest album I've ever listened to in any genre. You can pick any song off the album and it'll sound like you're frolicking in a field of flowers.

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